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Thread: The Secrets to Giants/Jets Stadium Changeover

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Again, you're whining for the sale of whining. There is nothing significantly bad about MetLife stadium. And compared to Giants Stadium, the place is a palace.

    SAR I
    I can agree with that. But the emboldened terms are the qualifiers. The bar is pretty low.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queens Jet Fan View Post
    Are sight lines and the system for getting in and out of the stadium significant? I these aren't then what is? Video screens?

    I ask for very little in a stadium. The most important things are being able to see the game well and being able to easily get in and out of it.

    GS - far superior to MetLife
    You watch all of your games on television. Forgive me if your opinion on sightlines doesn't really count.

    For those of us that spent a little bit of money on PSL's, the view is much better than the crap we had at Giants Stadium. That was the biggest win of all for Jets fans. Finally, the ability to get a great seat if you had the money to license it. $13 a game. Chump change. Thank you god.

    Getting in and out of MetLife Stadium is far superior than it was at Giants Stadium. They rebuilt all the roads, all the access ramps, and added a friggin' train station.

    There's nothing stopping you from taking a flatscreen TV to Flushing, sitting on the end of a LaGuardia Airport runway, and watching Jets games. Go for it. Make yourself happy for once.

    SAR I

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Queens Jet Fan. I couldn't agree you with you more. Funny thing is there used to be a guy with your very same screen name who had hundreds on posts on JI saying how we need this stadium for us to get to the Super Bowl. He specifically said how this stadium would allow us to have the best most expensive coaching staffs et al. How has that worked out for us? I'm so glad you don't let that guy post on your name any more.

    The Jets went from the 5th poorest to the 5th richest franchise in the NFL overnight in 2009. Not the stadium's fault that Mike Tannenbaum has lost his magic touch. The economics won't ever stand in the way of a title run. That's what's important as relates to the facility.

    This is a truly amazing post. Saying the exact opposite from one sentence to the other. On the one hand if the stadium would have cost less the ticket prices wouldn't have been less because the team sets the prices at what the market will bear.

    In the very next sentence you say we would pay more money in a solo NY stadium because the team would have paid more for the stadium. How can you say 2 exactly opposite statements in 2 consecutive sentences? That's truly a talent SAR. You should have been a politician.


    The market bears what the prices are at today: $50-$100 UD, $125 Mezz, $100-$200 LL. Doesn't matter where it's located, that's what season ticket holders are willing to spend.

    In a solo Manhattan stadium, either Woody raises his prices -or- the Jets are poorer which hurts performance. That was my point. You seem to want the Jets alone in a Queens stadium. Fewer fans would show up in that hole, it would cost the Jets more in a non-shared financial structure, and Clubs and Suites would be a disaster. Would be worse than Giants Stadium, Jets #32 in profitability.

    Of course I will agree with you that prices would be higher in a solo NY stadium but not for the reason you state. Like we agree - prices are set by what the market would bear. Since we know that NJ fans are the greatest Jet fans and they wouldn't mind traveling to Queens at all and the NY/LI fans are all zip code fans who would be ecstatic for a Queens Stadium the demand for tickets would be much higher in the Queens stadium hence our owner would try to "line his pockets" as you suggest and the prices would be higher.

    There's no nice way to say this, so forgive me, but the Long Island fanbase is dead. Literally. Anyone 45-55 in 1985 is now 72-82 years old. Those that came with us to NJ are still here. Those that didn't certainly wouldn't fork over $7,000 for a 30 year PSL when they only have 10 years left to live.

    You mean air conditioning louvres are representative of East Rutherford or is it all of Bergen County? What a truly marvelous architectural feat. Jet and Giant fans should be so proud.

    Show me a single NFL stadium whose exterior architecture makes a shi-s worth of difference to its fans. Show me a single NFL fan who dropped his season tickets solely because of their stadium's exterior architecture.

    You pick the strangest things to whine about.

    SAR I
    Sar, I like your posts you are very knowledgeable. The Long Island fans left the team because they did not want to travel to NJ. If the team was in Queens they would come back. I have to disagree with you on this one.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    You watch all of your games on television. Forgive me if your opinion on sightlines doesn't really count.

    For those of us that spent a little bit of money on PSL's, the view is much better than the crap we had at Giants Stadium. That was the biggest win of all for Jets fans. Finally, the ability to get a great seat if you had the money to license it. $13 a game. Chump change. Thank you god.

    Getting in and out of MetLife Stadium is far superior than it was at Giants Stadium. They rebuilt all the roads, all the access ramps, and added a friggin' train station.

    There's nothing stopping you from taking a flatscreen TV to Flushing, sitting on the end of a LaGuardia Airport runway, and watching Jets games. Go for it. Make yourself happy for once.

    SAR I
    Forgive me but I have been to the stadium and thus have an opinion. GS had far superior sight lines to MetLife. That seems to be the near unanimous opinion of all who have been there.

    When I mentioned getting in and out of the stadium I was talking of getting and leaving your seats not arriving at the complex. GS with its unique escalators to each level was far superior to the mess that is MetLife.

    Getting to the complex is the same misery it was before. No better. No worse. The train is fine to use for going to the stadium. Leaving is another story. I know many who tried it only to say never again.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    I can agree with that. But the emboldened terms are the qualifiers. The bar is pretty low.
    I'm really trying to understand what the Jets, and any other NFL team, could do to make stadiums better than they are today.

    Ultimately, they are big seating bowls to handle 80,000 people. Our stadium has LCD screens everywhere, clean bathrooms everywhere, tons of food and souvenir stands, escalators, a huge clothing shop, you can even design and buy a customized jersey in 20 minutes. Like you, I wish there were less Club seats so I could have paid $150 a game to sit in the Mezz on the 30, but that's life in the NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA right now.

    SAR I

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    That's cheap.

    My house in New Jersey cost 5x as much as the same thing in New England. And have you been to Gillette? It's nowhere near as nice as MetLife. It's in a terribly inconvenient location near no highways, a crappy 2-lane road leading there for 5 miles each way, people park in car dealerships and walk an hour just to get in. Only 1 of the 4 sides allows you to exit as its built into a hill, takes forever to get to the parking lots or its limited train service. No escalators, takes 30 minutes to climb to the upper deck.

    Do me a favor, describe what you think we "deserved". Draw a picture, post it up. Explain to me how these four areas could be any more Jets-like than they are now:

    Outer perimeter.
    Stadium skin.
    Interior concourses.
    Seating bowl.

    If you've ever been to other NFL stadiums you'd know that we're on par with the newer stadiums, superior to at least half the league.

    SAR I
    What are you talking about that you can only exit one side of Gillette. I never took more than 10 min to leave the stadium. I live 45 miles from the stadium and it takes 1 hour till I park my car. There are 3 lanes of traffic in each direction coming off 495.

    Since when did you care how long it took to get to the upper deck? You climb it 2x a game and I am on the wrong side of 50 and it is not a bother.

    You complain about tailgating, What about Patriot place rather than a parking lot?

    Gillette is a great stadium, with little endzone seating. Does it take a hour to leave the stadium after the game yes. Is the parking $$ ridiculous- yes. But the state takes 1/2 to pay for the infrastructure improvements. That stadium was built with no taxpayer funding and no PSLs.

    I don't know where you live but around here the average house in Foxboro area is $350,000. Your 2mill dollar house in NJ must have been pretty nice.

    No one walks more than 20 min to get to the stadium, The guys who park on Rt 1. Do so as the tailgating is much more lenient than on site, and most have attendants that watch over grills etc.

    Believe me the Union labor costs difference in North NJ vs Met Boston is not significant.

    You will not get one Patriot fan who wishes to switch places.
    Last edited by patman; 10-07-2012 at 12:50 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suffering View Post
    Sar, I like your posts you are very knowledgeable. The Long Island fans left the team because they did not want to travel to NJ. If the team was in Queens they would come back. I have to disagree with you on this one.
    This breaks down into two groups. Old fans, and new fans.

    Anyone who was 45 to 55 years old in 1985 is now between the ages of 72 and 82 years old. These fans would not travel to and would not get PSL's for a Jets stadium if it were located in Queens.

    Anyone who was 15 to 25 years old in 1985 is now between the ages of 42 and 52 years old and made the journey with the team to New Jersey back then straight to this very day. They don't remember Shea Stadium, they perhaps only went there once or twice, and they only know the Jets as a team based in New Jersey.

    So you see, there is nothing to "come back" to. The older fans aren't traveling to live NFL games anymore. It's just a fact, those old-time Shea Stadium season-ticket holders they're just too old right now.

    And those younger fans well they transitioned with us back in the 1980s and 1990s, they're comfortable commuting to and from New Jersey, and are happy in the brand-new stadium.

    This "come back to Queens" idea may have made some sense in 1990 maybe even 2000, but it's 2012. This whole argument is about old-time fans. The fans who were 45 to 55 years old in 1985 in Shea Stadium. I'm very sorry, but they're all dead now either under the ground, or sitting around on fixed incomes. 72 to 82-year-old people simply don't go to 10 live NFL games per season.

    SAR I
    Last edited by SAR I; 10-07-2012 at 12:48 PM.

  8. #48
    Sar, you are assuming all the old Jet fans are dead, In 85 I was 15, I am alive and breathing live on LI and will not go to that $hithole of a swamp. It is about the travel. Would take me over 2 hours to get home. Not much fun especially after a loss. Your talking about 45-55 year olds. Those people who you say are dead, what did they not have kids? who grew up rooting for the team their father did before them. You like the stadium where it is because it benefits you.

    The Jets are now a New Jersey and CT team. I root for them because I have been since 79 when they were a NY team. If they moved to LA I would still root for them. Tell me you would travel to LA, to watch them?
    Last edited by Suffering; 10-07-2012 at 12:56 PM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    What are you talking about that you can only exit one side of Gillette. I never took more than 10 min to leave the stadium. I live 45 miles from the stadium and it takes 1 hour till I park my car. There are 3 lanes of traffic in each direction coming off 495.

    Since when did you care how long it took to get to the upper deck? You climb it 2x a game and I am on the wrong side of 50 and it is not a bother.

    You complain about tailgating, What about Patriot place rather than a parking lot?

    Gillette is a great stadium, with little endzone seating. Does it take a hour to leave the stadium after the game yes. Is the parking $$ ridiculous- yes. But the state takes 1/2 to pay for the infrastructure improvements. That stadium was built with no taxpayer funding and no PSLs.

    I don't know where you live but around here the average house in Foxboro area is $350,000. Your 2mill dollar house in NJ must have been pretty nice.

    No one walks more than 20 min to get to the stadium, The guys who park on Rt 1. Do so as the tailgating is much more lenient than on site, and most have attendants that watch over grills etc.

    Believe me the Union labor costs difference in North NJ vs Met Boston is not significant.


    I lived in New Hampshire for 13 straight years having just moved back to the New York area two years ago. I personally saw 12 of the 14 games that were played up there in that span.

    Gillette Stadium is built into the side of a hill. All 76,000 fans need to walk into one end zone of the stadium, and from there walk around all the way to get to the backside. In MetLife Stadium, all four corners of the stadium allow you to walk out and get to a nearby parking lot. Very different situation than Gillette Stadium.

    I only sat in the upper deck of Gillette Stadium once, but are several Jets fans who have seats in MetLife Stadium and thus the reason I brought it up. For Patriots fans sitting in the upper deck of Gillette Stadium, it literally takes 30 minutes from the time you enter the gates to the time you get up to your seats. There are no escalators, and the crowds slowly walking up the ramps to the top of the stadium is a nightmare.

    My $600,000 house on 2.5 acres in the best school district in New Hampshire would easily cost $3,000,000 in a similar neighborhood down here.

    SAR I
    Last edited by SAR I; 10-07-2012 at 01:00 PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suffering View Post
    Sar, you are assuming all the old Jet fans are dead, In 85 I was 15, I am alive and breathing live on LI and will not go to that $hithole of a swamp. It is about the travel. Would take me over 2 hours to get home. Not much fun especially after a loss. Your talking about 45-55 year olds. Those people who you say are dead, what did they not have kids? who grew up rooting for the team their father did before them. You like the stadium where it is because it benefits you.

    The Jets are now a New Jersey and CT team. I root for them because I have been since 79 when they were a NY team. If they moved to LA I would still root for them. Tell me you would travel to LA, to watch them?
    Well, you are the rare fan. You were a young, diehard Jets fan who could have followed the team to New Jersey like everybody else did, but because you were too far away you simply couldn't.

    Fortunately for the Jets, there were plenty of fans in New Jersey who offset you.

    No NFL team can make all of its fans happy. Eventually, you get to the point where there are fans two hours or more away from where your stadium is and there's nothing you can do about that.

    Since you're making this personal, I will too. I lived in New Hampshire for 13 years, and not only attended 12 Jets contests in New England, but also drove 10 hours round-trip to see the Jets in my season ticket seats 5x a year during that span. Instead of questioning my dedication to the team, I ask you: is it really too much work to go an extra 30 minutes to see the team in a brand-new facility in New Jersey? No, it's not. I put in 10 hours, you could have put in 4.

    Like Queens Jets Fan, you could have gotten in a car and driven the extra couple of minutes to see the Jets all these years in New Jersey. Stop using it as an excuse, the rest of us didn't.

    SAR I
    Last edited by SAR I; 10-07-2012 at 01:09 PM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Suffering View Post
    Sar, you are assuming all the old Jet fans are dead, In 85 I was 15, I am alive and breathing live on LI and will not go to that $hithole of a swamp. It is about the travel. Would take me over 2 hours to get home. Not much fun especially after a loss. Your talking about 45-55 year olds. Those people who you say are dead, what did they not have kids? who grew up rooting for the team their father did before them. You like the stadium where it is because it benefits you.

    The Jets are now a New Jersey and CT team. I root for them because I have been since 79 when they were a NY team. If they moved to LA I would still root for them. Tell me you would travel to LA, to watch them?
    Don't mind SAR. He's just flaming. He doesn't believe half the sh*t he posts. Of course his diatribe on LI Jet fans is all horsesh*t. He just likes to push buttons.

    Is even funny how he talks about the 15-25 yr olds and the 45-55 yr olds in 1985. Isn't there quite a gap between the 25-45? Did they not exist? I was 34 in 1985. I was at the very first Jet game ever at Shea and I shlepped to NJ many years for the Jets. My demographic and that of my son are the ones that Woody lost and is what's killing him in trying to sell tickets in the dump in the swamps.

    There are just not enough SAR's to fill up that place. Queens would have been a completely different story.
    Last edited by Queens Jet Fan; 10-07-2012 at 01:09 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queens Jet Fan View Post
    Don't mind SAR. He's just flaming. He doesn't believe half the sh*t he posts. Of course his diatribe on LI Jet fans is all horsesh*t. He just likes to push buttons.

    Is even funny how he talks about the 15-25 yr olds and the 45-55 yr olds in 1985. Isn't there quite a gap between the 25-45? Did they not exist? I was 34 in 1985. I was at the very first Jet game ever at Shea and I shlepped to NJ many years for the Jets. My demographic and that of my son are the ones that Woody lost and is what's killing him in trying to sell tickets in the dump in the swamps.

    There are just not enough SAR's to fill up that place. Queens would have been a completely different story.
    I am not flaming, and if you continue to mischaracterise my opinions I will cease discussing them with you.

    I was trying to tiptoe around it because I didn't want to hurt your feelings, but the truth is you suck as a fan. You lived a cushy 20 minutes from Shea Stadium, and the minute the Jets inconvenienced you with a whopping 30 additional minutes, you quit on the team. You're whining because the Jets used to be your next-door neighbors. Now that they're a couple of bridges away, poor baby, too much for you.

    Woody didn't "lose" any of these Long Island fans. The team he purchased had already been in New Jersey almost 20 years.

    Nothing is "killing" Woody Johnson right now. He has more Jets fans than ever paying more money than ever in his stadium. The only people getting killed right now are old-time fans on Long Island who are too lazy to drive a little bit further and use that as a convenient excuse to sit their asses on the couch chomping pretzels every Sunday.

    SAR I

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post

    Nothing is "killing" Woody Johnson right now. He has more Jets fans than ever paying more money than ever in his stadium.
    SAR I
    Blah Blah Blah. If there were fact checkers on JI you would be the Michelle Bachman of JI.

    No reason to debate somebody so clueless on the facts.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    That's cheap.

    My house in New Jersey cost 5x as much as the same thing in New England. And have you been to Gillette? It's nowhere near as nice as MetLife. It's in a terribly inconvenient location near no highways, a crappy 2-lane road leading there for 5 miles each way, people park in car dealerships and walk an hour just to get in. Only 1 of the 4 sides allows you to exit as its built into a hill, takes forever to get to the parking lots or its limited train service. No escalators, takes 30 minutes to climb to the upper deck.

    Do me a favor, describe what you think we "deserved". Draw a picture, post it up. Explain to me how these four areas could be any more Jets-like than they are now:

    Outer perimeter.
    Stadium skin.
    Interior concourses.
    Seating bowl.

    If you've ever been to other NFL stadiums you'd know that we're on par with the newer stadiums, superior to at least half the league.

    SAR I
    I agree with SAR too. I like Met Life stadium. I like it better than Heinz field in pittsburgh. As far as it being in Jersey, that's just how it goes. If there was a legitimate way of having it in New York, I imagine it would of been. It's just not gonna happen.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    I am not flaming, and if you continue to mischaracterise my opinions I will cease discussing them with you.

    I was trying to tiptoe around it because I didn't want to hurt your feelings, but the truth is you suck as a fan. You lived a cushy 20 minutes from Shea Stadium, and the minute the Jets inconvenienced you with a whopping 30 additional minutes, you quit on the team. You're whining because the Jets used to be your next-door neighbors. Now that they're a couple of bridges away, poor baby, too much for you.

    Woody didn't "lose" any of these Long Island fans. The team he purchased had already been in New Jersey almost 20 years.

    Nothing is "killing" Woody Johnson right now. He has more Jets fans than ever paying more money than ever in his stadium. The only people getting killed right now are old-time fans on Long Island who are too lazy to drive a little bit further and use that as a convenient excuse to sit their asses on the couch chomping pretzels every Sunday.

    SAR I
    Jets says report of unsold tickets isnít accurate
    Posted by Mike Florio on October 7, 2012, 12:47 PM EDT

    Getty ImagesOn Sunday morning, NFL Networkís Mike Lombardi suggested at the tail end of First on the Field that the Jets were more than 12,000 tails short as of Friday when it comes to selling tickets to Monday nightís game against the Texans.

    A Jets spokesman tells PFT that the report isnít accurate. The Jets donít, and wonít, comment on specific ticket figures, but the Jets say that all home games will be televised.

    Of course, all games will be televised if the Jets and/or their sponsors buy all unsold tickets at 34 cents on the dollar.

    Itís still unclear whether and to what extent the Jets are having trouble selling tickets. But if thereís any issue with putting butts in seats, it could be time to send Mark Sanchezís butt on the long metal seat that is kept on the sidelines.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet View Post

    A Jets spokesman tells PFT that the report isnít accurate. The Jets donít, and wonít, comment on specific ticket figures, but the Jets say that all home games will be televised.

    Of course, all games will be televised if the Jets and/or their sponsors buy all unsold tickets at 34 cents on the dollar.

    Itís still unclear whether and to what extent the Jets are having trouble selling tickets. But if thereís any issue with putting butts in seats, it could be time to send Mark Sanchezís butt on the long metal seat that is kept on the sidelines.
    File this under "you get what you deserve".

    No, not Woody Johnson. The disloyal blue-collar-since-Shea salt-of-the Earth-facepainters we hear so much about, supposed to feel so sorry for.

    Club seats don't count towards blackout rules. PSL seats are 90% sold out. The problem is the upper deck which has scores of open seats in the endzones and the high rows.

    The cheapskate fans that didn't take a $2,500 PSL and went to the upper deck so long as the Jets were a playoff team VANISHED after our one 8-8 season like good front-runners do. And it is their disappearance that is causing the unsold UD seats.

    So if the Jets did indeed get blacked out, good, it's the upper decker quitters who'd lose out and would have to get their lazy, cheap asses back in the Meadowlands.

    SAR I

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsfanfromtheBURGH View Post
    I agree with SAR too. I like Met Life stadium. I like it better than Heinz field in pittsburgh. As far as it being in Jersey, that's just how it goes. If there was a legitimate way of having it in New York, I imagine it would of been. It's just not gonna happen.
    Exactly.

    If the Jets needed the 65 year olds on Long Island in order to achieve their financial goals, they'd have put the stadium closer to them.

    SAR I

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    File this under "you get what you deserve".

    No, not Woody Johnson. The disloyal blue-collar-since-Shea salt-of-the Earth-facepainters we hear so much about, supposed to feel so sorry for.

    Club seats don't count towards blackout rules. PSL seats are 90% sold out. The problem is the upper deck which has scores of open seats in the endzones and the high rows.

    The cheapskate fans that didn't take a $2,500 PSL and went to the upper deck so long as the Jets were a playoff team VANISHED after our one 8-8 season like good front-runners do. And it is their disappearance that is causing the unsold UD seats.

    So if the Jets did indeed get blacked out, good, it's the upper decker quitters who'd lose out and would have to get their lazy, cheap asses back in the Meadowlands.

    SAR I
    You are so right my dear SAR. It's all me and my friend's fault.

    Woody? Totally blameless. What did he do after all?
    Built a lousy stadium.
    Built it in the wrong place.
    Shares it with the Giants.
    Meddles in the team where it is a disaster on the field and a circus.
    Hires a horrible coaching staff.

    Yeah why should he take any blame for fans not wanting to shell out their hard earned money to go to see the Jets. It's all the fault of Queens and LIers.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Queens Jet Fan View Post
    Not a single Jet or Giant fan cares that their teams built the most expensive stadium around that is also the ugliest, and has far inferior sight lines to their previous stadium.

    Nope, you just have two fan bases totally giddy in love with their stadium and in love with the fact that because the teams are sharing the stadium the fans are saving so much money because the teams kept ticket prices so low.

    SAR you are right. You can't find even one fan of either team who would think anything negative at all about glorious Met Life Stadium.
    What's crazy is look at the cost of MetLife at 1.6 billion and look at the cost of Cowboys Stadium and 1.15 billion and look at the difference....

    I know construction is cheaper in Texas but man, if I had to guess just by looking, I'd say Cowboys cost twice as much.

    Nothing wrong with Metlife but compared to Cowboys, it's no different than most stadiums built over the last 20 years or so.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queens Jet Fan View Post
    You are so right my dear SAR. It's all me and my friend's fault.

    Woody? Totally blameless. What did he do after all?
    Built a lousy stadium.
    Built it in the wrong place.
    Shares it with the Giants.
    Meddles in the team where it is a disaster on the field and a circus.
    Hires a horrible coaching staff.

    Yeah why should he take any blame for fans not wanting to shell out their hard earned money to go to see the Jets. It's all the fault of Queens and LIers.
    Don't bring in the issues about the type of team we have, the awful head coach we have, the circus-like atmosphere that's here. We get that, we agree, it has nothing to do with a 30 year commitment on a personal seat license to a stadium that's in New Jersey.

    Woody Johnson built Jets fans a great stadium, in a smartly shared financial relationship with the Giants, in the right state for his current fanbase. The attendance issues we are seeing now have to do with the bad product on the field, not the owner or the facility. Furthermore, the reason for the empty seats in the upper deck has everything to do with the old-time fans, many from Queens, who decided not to show up after the Jets stopped making the playoffs.

    The first two years after the new stadium opened, nobody was talking about the lack of the sellout, or potential blackouts. Now that we're having a down year, all of a sudden it's panic city. Poor Woody Johnson. Poor New York Jets. It's all a bunch of crap. The club seats are significantly sold down, the PSL seats are for all intents and purposes sold out. The issue we have is in the upper deck, and because Woody Johnson was benevolent and did not put a PSL on those seats, the diehard blue-collar oh so loyal fans are the ones stabbing him in the back, quitting on us.

    You aren't a season ticket holder. I don't even know why we're having this conversation.

    SAR I

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