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Thread: An interesting Article on the Changing Trends in Religion in America

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    First, there will always be a sizeable percentage of the population that will obey rules/laws based on avoiding punishment as opposed to just trying to be "good", and society requires that to avoid chaos.

    Second, that's what faith is: being able to believe without concrete evidence.

    Finally, more people have been killed in history by atheists than due to religion (Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, etc).
    If people need fear as their number 1 motivator to do the right thing as opposed to simply just doing the right thing, that really says a lot about us.

    Also, I dont see how what some looney-tune dictators who just so happened to not believe in god, takes away from the atrocities committed throughout time in the name of one people's god.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    Finally, more people have been killed in history by atheists than due to religion (Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, etc).
    And God has killed more than all of them combined. So there's that.

  3. #23
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    I am an atheist but I am not anti-religion.

    I think everyone creates their own beliefs around them to conform with what floats their boat. Who am I to tell you your beliefs are wrong? I can also admit I might be wrong. (Boy will I bee embaressed!)

    The ONLY time I get ticked off is when folks beliefs cross into my life. Otherwise, we should all just party on because life is short. You aren't going to convince me and I'm not going to convince you.

    KUMBAYA!!!!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    I am an atheist but I am not anti-religion.

    I think everyone creates their own beliefs around them to conform with what floats their boat. Who am I to tell you your beliefs are wrong? I can also admit I might be wrong. (Boy will I bee embaressed!)

    The ONLY time I get ticked off is when folks beliefs cross into my life. Otherwise, we should all just party on because life is short. You aren't going to convince me and I'm not going to convince you.

    KUMBAYA!!!!
    I don't know, I used to think that like, but the more I think about it, the more I think organized religion, not belief in a deity is the problem.

    I don't care what someone believes, but an organization of people adhering to one doctrine about an almighty dictator that has the monopoly on morality and answers is a problem in my opinion.

    People are interpreting the Bible, the Koran and the Torah to inform their opinions on 20th (and 21st) century birth control, women's reproductive rights and stem-cell research.

    Plus, I mean, I don't know many Christians that 'turn the other cheek'.
    Last edited by SafetyBlitz; 10-10-2012 at 11:54 AM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    I don't know, I used to think that like, but the more I think about it, the more I think organized labor, not belief in a fair and equal treatment of labor under the law, is the problem.
    FYP in a way to show something in a light you may (or may not) have considered.

    I don't care what someone believes, but an organization of people adhering to one doctrine about an almighty dictator that has the monopoly on morality and answers is a problem in my opinion.
    Sounds like Communism without the Sky-Magic Show.

    Sounds alot like American liberalism too tbqh.....

    Plus, I mean, I don't know many Christians that 'turn the other cheek'.
    How many times has the museum displaying "Piss Christ" been firebombed, and how many attempts to kill it's artist have occured?

    Maybe the do turn the other cheek after all.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    FYP in a way to show something in a light you may (or may not) have considered.



    Sounds like Communism without the Sky-Magic Show.

    Sounds alot like American liberalism too tbqh.....
    Cool story, broseph.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    How many times has the museum displaying "Piss Christ" been firebombed, and how many attempts to kill it's artist have occured?

    Maybe the do turn the other cheek after all.
    How about abortion clinics? And turn the other cheek isn't just for people who "insult your religion with thru sh*t art", it's for everything, no?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Russell's teapot....



    Caveman Religious Guy: The Sun moves across the sky via a chariot pulled by a god.

    Caveman PK: LOL. That's a pretty crazy thing to believe in.

    Caveman Religious Guy: So, you've "verified" that there is no celestial chariot hauling the Sun around? Interesting. Did you visit the sun and see this?

    Caveman PK: Uh. No I have not.

    Caveman Religious Guy: Believers 1 / Nonbelievers 0
    So in a word, you HAVEN'T verified there is no God?

    I find it interesting that those who believe in God admit they have FAITH, but those that don't say they have FACTS -- yet those facts never seem to back up what they're saying . . .

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    So in a word, you HAVEN'T verified there is no God?

    I find it interesting that those who believe in God admit they have FAITH, but those that don't say they have FACTS -- yet those facts never seem to back up what they're saying . . .
    But I do have proof.

    Last month, I prayed to God for 30 minutes and asked him to provide proof of his existence. I politely asked him to do so within a week.

    Nothing happened.

    Therefore either:

    A.) God does not exist

    B.) God does not want to provide proof

    or

    C.) God cannot provide the proof.

    For a being to be considered a "God", he must have qualities that make him worthy of being worshipped. Now, if said being does not want or cannot provide irrefutable proof of his existence after being asked to in a prayer (which he says he answers)...then he definitely is NOT worthy of worship.

    Which only leaves "A" as the answer.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    But I do have proof.

    Last month, I prayed to God for 30 minutes and asked him to provide proof of his existence. I politely asked him to do so within a week.

    Nothing happened.

    Therefore either:

    A.) God does not exist

    B.) God does not want to provide proof

    or

    C.) God cannot provide the proof.

    For a being to be considered a "God", he must have qualities that make him worthy of being worshipped. Now, if said being does not want or cannot provide irrefutable proof of his existence after being asked to in a prayer (which he says he answers)...then he definitely is NOT worthy of worship.

    Which only leaves "A" as the answer.
    You forgot the obvious alternative : after years of your crap, God simply has put you on "Ignore"

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    Cool story, broseph.
    Guess you're not in the mood to see things differently today.

    How about abortion clinics? And turn the other cheek isn't just for people who "insult your religion with thru sh*t art", it's for everything, no?
    Liberals riot in the street because their welfare isn't high enough, we're waging war 8,000 miles away on brown people, and every other word in the english language is "code" for "racism".

    Yet you're unwilling to give any leeway to the side who believes, deeply, that abortion is the outright murder of a human being?

    If thats not closed-minded myopic tunnel vision, I don't know what is.

    There is no excuse for violence against abortion clinincs, in MY view, but given all the many things liberals, progressives, democrats, socialists and communists have engaged in violence for over the years, I would think you'd be MUCH more open minded about the intention of those small few waging violence (and it is a VERY small few, far less than say, Islamic violence) waging it to save, in their perhaps misguided view, the very lives of human beings.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    So in a word, you HAVEN'T verified there is no God?
    Have you verified, in a way duplicatable and repeatable by others, that there is?

    If not, it seems you and PK are in the same spot.

    There is a reason the ranks of the agnostics (the "we'll belive it, if and when we see it") continue to grow.

    Myths and mysticism and hocus pocus sillyness, and just like them, many want a little more than "take our word for it, and pass the collection plate along will you" before they buy in.

    It's funny, but so many seem to put more logical scrutiny on the Jets choice of QB, than they do the deeply held beliefs of faith they adhere to. Seesm backwards to me.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    So in a word, you HAVEN'T verified there is no God?

    I find it interesting that those who believe in God admit they have FAITH, but those that don't say they have FACTS -- yet those facts never seem to back up what they're saying . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Have you verified, in a way duplicatable and repeatable by others, that there is?

    If not, it seems you and PK are in the same spot.

    There is a reason the ranks of the agnostics (the "we'll belive it, if and when we see it") continue to grow.

    Myths and mysticism and hocus pocus sillyness, and just like them, many want a little more than "take our word for it, and pass the collection plate along will you" before they buy in.

    It's funny, but so many seem to put more logical scrutiny on the Jets choice of QB, than they do the deeply held beliefs of faith they adhere to. Seesm backwards to me.
    That's why there's benefit in reading the WHOLE thread

    I know I can't "prove" there's a God. But let's stop acting like an unexplainable world that defies our own scientific laws and continues to amaze and astound us "couldn't possibly be due to a higher being".

    You want to believe we just appeared out of nowhere? Fine. Just get rid of the whole "matter cannot be created or destroyed" myth. You want to say we're progressively improving? Fine -- throw out the "matter is always in a state of deterioration" lie. You want to look at how infinitely remote the chances are that this world really did "just come into existence" (like if we were just a little further from the sun we'd be burned to a crisp), go ahead -- just make sure you don't do an indepth study of probability. You want to say it occurred over the course of billions of years? Have fun -- but then you're extrapolating beliefs just like I am.

    In case you didn't notice, the theme of this thread wasn't to prove there is a God. It was to "commend" us for getting "smarter" for no longer believing in a higher being. There is absolutely NO evidence that God doesn't exist, so anyone who says they KNOW it (not just believe it) are either fools, or purposely ignorant of their stance . . .

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    But I do have proof.

    Last month, I prayed to God for 30 minutes and asked him to provide proof of his existence. I politely asked him to do so within a week.

    Nothing happened.

    Therefore either:

    A.) God does not exist

    B.) God does not want to provide proof

    or

    C.) God cannot provide the proof.

    For a being to be considered a "God", he must have qualities that make him worthy of being worshipped. Now, if said being does not want or cannot provide irrefutable proof of his existence after being asked to in a prayer (which he says he answers)...then he definitely is NOT worthy of worship.

    Which only leaves "A" as the answer.
    For those who believe in God, you're SURROUNDED by "irrefutable proof". For those who don't, there's NOTHING He could do to change your mind (even if He did "reveal" himself, you'd probably just chalk it up to drugs).

    I can handle people saying they don't believe in a God. But saying they have "proof" -- sorry, that's just throwing objectivity right out the window . . .

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    For those who believe in God, you're SURROUNDED by "irrefutable proof".
    Which doesn't distinguish any one God from another, so you're saying that the God that Muslims worship, or the God that Indians thought brought rain, or the God that Greeks thought brought, well, basically everything, are just as likely the culprit in this whole Creation thing as the God/version of events that you worship... And you have no real reason to believe in your God over any of these others, or in your version of events over the Judaic version, other than family tradition - like your Grandma's meatloaf, or watching football on Thanksgiving. Amirite?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    ...many want a little more than "take our word for it, and pass the collection plate along will you" before they buy in.
    Particularly when those supposedly 'chosen', and then entrusted to pass on this word, seem to be less 'holy' and moral than the rest of the population, when they should be so much more.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    Which doesn't distinguish any one God from another, so you're saying that the God that Muslims worship, or the God that Indians thought brought rain, or the God that Greeks thought brought, well, basically everything, are just as likely the culprit in this whole Creation thing as the God/version of events that you worship... And you have no real reason to believe in your God over any of these others, or in your version of events over the Judaic version, other than family tradition - like your Grandma's meatloaf, or watching football on Thanksgiving. Amirite?
    Or one could understand the possibility that they are all different cultural interpretation s of the same thing.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    I know I can't "prove" there's a God.
    Agreed.

    But let's stop acting like an unexplainable world that defies our own scientific laws and continues to amaze and astound us "couldn't possibly be due to a higher being".
    1. We don't have "our own" scientific "laws". We only have the current understanding of existence as best as we can.

    2. I've never said there could not be superior beings, some surely even "godlike" to us, as we are "godlike" to ants. That does not them THE Christian Biblical God, which is (like Odin, and Jupiter) mythology.

    You want to believe we just appeared out of nowhere?
    I don't "beleive" anything of the sort. I understand science cannot yet answer many questions of the origin of life on Earth, or of the Universe itself.

    With that said, you're sttrident "well, you can't come from NOTHING" falls flat when you have to admit, that your "God" would have had to come from nothing himself, unless you go with the equally silly "he's always been", in which case, why can God "have always been", but the Universe cannot "have always been"?

    Fine. Just get rid of the whole "matter cannot be created or destroyed" myth. You want to say we're progressively improving? Fine -- throw out the "matter is always in a state of deterioration" lie. You want to look at how infinitely remote the chances are that this world really did "just come into existence" (like if we were just a little further from the sun we'd be burned to a crisp), go ahead -- just make sure you don't do an indepth study of probability. You want to say it occurred over the course of billions of years? Have fun -- but then you're extrapolating beliefs just like I am.
    There is so little actual scicne here, it's just not worth wargarbling over tbh.

    In case you didn't notice, the theme of this thread wasn't to prove there is a God. It was to "commend" us for getting "smarter" for no longer believing in a higher being.
    Indeed, a position I agree with. Moving past mythology and superstition is to be applauded.

    There is absolutely NO evidence that God doesn't exist
    Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or "appeal to ignorance" (where "ignorance" stands for: "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false, it is "generally accepted" (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false.

    The only truly accurate choice if to be agnostic. With that said, atheism is far more based in observable reality than relgion is.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Or one could understand the possibility that they are all different cultural interpretation s of the same thing.
    Very logical. Let's see how many 'believers' think that the Catholic, Jewish, Muslim etc. faiths are all "the same thing," as you say, viewed through a different cultural lens. What say you, believers?

    I'm pretty sure, though, that each religion preaches that they are the only true religion, that those that worship other Gods/religions will not reap the benefits of believing - quite the opposite, in fact, I'm told. Unless this is one of those things, like premarital sex, birth control, no divorce, etc. that is only kinda really the way you have to live anymore, not really really.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    Very logical. Let's see how many 'believers' think that the Catholic, Jewish, Muslim etc. faiths are all "the same thing," as you say, viewed through a different cultural lens. What say you, believers?

    I'm pretty sure, though, that each religion preaches that they are the only true religion, that those that worship other Gods/religions will not reap the benefits of believing - quite the opposite, in fact, I'm told. Unless this is one of those things, like premarital sex, birth control, no divorce, etc. that is only kinda really the way you have to live anymore, not really really.
    Funny, because as a Catholic, who got 13 years of Catholic education, which included a year of study of each of Buddhism, Islam, and Judaism I was given a strong opportunity to persue more knowledge on each and make that observation myself. If that was something they wanted to hide, why teach the material? I don't ever recall being told Catholic is the only way. Oddly I only seem to remember central themes like love, equality, forgiveness.

    It seems you're pretty sure about something you've "been told", not something you've actually experienced or truly understand. You mock "believers", yet to those of us that watch you lump us all into a category of people who are a tiny subset of our (or any) population, you just seem as ignorant as that group is.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Funny, because as a Catholic, who got 13 years of Catholic education, which included a year of study of each of Buddhism, Islam, and Judaism I was given a strong opportunity to persue more knowledge on each and make that observation myself. If that was something they wanted to hide, why teach the material? I don't ever recall being told Catholic is the only way. Oddly I only seem to remember central themes like love, equality, forgiveness.

    It seems you're pretty sure about something you've "been told", not something you've actually experienced or truly understand. You mock "believers", yet to those of us that watch you lump us all into a category of people who are a tiny subset of our (or any) population, you just seem as ignorant as that group is.
    I don't mock believers. I don't even mock those who claim to believe, but don't. It's natural to want to believe in something that you think will help you. I mock those who can't see the possibility that others are right, that they could be wrong, or that there is another way of thinking about these things that may be neither right nor wrong, just different. I truly meant what I said in my initial reply, that your statement is logical, it makes sense. But in my experience, the kind of thinking that your statement espouses is not in practice. Spent my grammar school years up through confirmation at CCD classes and sure was never told to investigate other religions, let alone discuss them in class. Met some of the most narrow-minded, uninformed people I have ever encountered leading those classes. Sounds like you had better instruction, but I'm not sure that your experience is more common than mine. Then there is that whole "I am your God, you shall not have other Gods before me," which I was taught was meant as it is written. Amirong?

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