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Thread: An interesting Article on the Changing Trends in Religion in America

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    Which doesn't distinguish any one God from another, so you're saying that the God that Muslims worship, or the God that Indians thought brought rain, or the God that Greeks thought brought, well, basically everything, are just as likely the culprit in this whole Creation thing as the God/version of events that you worship... And you have no real reason to believe in your God over any of these others, or in your version of events over the Judaic version, other than family tradition - like your Grandma's meatloaf, or watching football on Thanksgiving. Amirite?
    It's amazing how difficult it is for some people to stay on topic.

    This thread is debating whether there's "proof" there's NO GOD. I find this to be an unbelievably stupid thought. So in that regard, yes -- no matter what god people believe in, they're all lumped in the same category vs. those who "know" there isn't one.

    You want to know why I believe the way I do? I'll gladly share with you, but something tells me you could care less. I'm not on here pushing my beliefs. But if someone says something ridiculous, I'm going to comment, whether it's about Sanchez being the worst QB in the history of football or how "enlightened" our society is becoming by discovering there is no God . . .

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    This thread is debating whether there's "proof" there's NO GOD. I find this to be an unbelievably stupid thought.
    The only proof anyone can provide that something DOESN'T exist is the lack of proof that something DOES exist. The burden of proof does NOT fall on me...it falls on you.

    Prove that God exists. If you cannot, then I'm right? Nope. It would just mean that you are wrong.

    As Rumsfeld put it:

    There are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.

    There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.

    But there are also unknown unknowns there are things we do not know we don't know.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    It's amazing how difficult it is for some people to stay on topic.

    This thread is debating whether there's "proof" there's NO GOD. I find this to be an unbelievably stupid thought. So in that regard, yes -- no matter what god people believe in, they're all lumped in the same category vs. those who "know" there isn't one.

    You want to know why I believe the way I do? I'll gladly share with you, but something tells me you could care less. I'm not on here pushing my beliefs. But if someone says something ridiculous, I'm going to comment, whether it's about Sanchez being the worst QB in the history of football or how "enlightened" our society is becoming by discovering there is no God . . .
    Check the OP - this thread is about a larger number of people than ever not identifying with a religion. My first post was squarely on that topic, was yours? And then the thread went where it went without any help from me. But I understand that naturally, when you're discussing why less people are following a religion (let alone identifying with one), you're going to have people talking about faith vs. proof, and when it comes to that, it's just as natural to wonder how one can reject all other religions and those that believe in none. I don't reject you're religion, I reject the notion that one can be sure enough to preach that everyone else is wrong (and I'm not accusing you, but it's surely done by many). What I'm sure of is that I'm not sure, but I'll admit that in my mind the facts are in favor of the 'non-believers' - gods have been used to explain the unexplainable throughout time, until a scientific explanation comes about and is proven.

    Check my posts - you may not like what I wrote, but I didn't reject any one religion, I questioned how anyone could reject others in the absence of proof.
    Last edited by isired; 10-11-2012 at 09:19 AM.

  4. #44
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    I'm disturbed by the sudden trend of mods and ex-mods alike who don't believe in a Supreme Being acting all God-omnipotentate-like-ish. Possibly. It correlates much too closely with B. Hussein's slide into the dustbin of history for my taste.

    To sum it up:

    The Roman, Greek, Indian, and wah-wah Indian gods of this that and the other are all false Gods. Didn't Chief Big Wheel at the Gabby Giffords B. Hussein pep rally clue you in on that? Chiefy was blessing every god of everything in sight until he started in on the doorknobs, bathroom fixtures and hospitality suite and had to get yanked off the stage....

    The Islamic unitary God that somehow is different from the Abrahamic unitary God is a false God.

    Buddha could be God, or a frat brotherr of His, but I think we need a poll on that.

    Science fiction writers are not God, nor are their works Scripture. Unless you're a gaymer that is.

    God shows blasphemers He exists by not striking them dead when they blaspheme. He gets even later on!

    When you heathens can create and destroy matter and can decipher or reboot the DNA code, let me know, I'd love to see the demo
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 10-11-2012 at 02:13 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    Check the OP - this thread is about a larger number of people than ever not identifying with a religion. My first post was squarely on that topic, was yours? And then the thread went where it went without any help from me. But I understand that naturally, when you're discussing why less people are following a religion (let alone identifying with one), you're going to have people talking about faith vs. proof, and when it comes to that, it's just as natural to wonder how one can reject all other religions and those that believe in none. I don't reject you're religion, I reject the notion that one can be sure enough to preach that everyone else is wrong (and I'm not accusing you, but it's surely done by many). What I'm sure of is that I'm not sure, but I'll admit that in my mind the facts are in favor of the 'non-believers' - gods have been used to explain the unexplainable throughout time, until a scientific explanation comes about and is proven.

    Check my posts - you may not like what I wrote, but I didn't reject any one religion, I questioned how anyone could reject others in the absence of proof.
    Yes -- if you check my first post, it SQUARELY hits on the idea that not believing in God somehow makes someone "smarter". No religious pressure, no fanatical preaching -- just a comment that today's society does NOT lead one to believe we are becoming more advanced in our thinking.

    That was followed up by MULTIPLE threads stating "well, can you prove there is a God?" or "well then what makes your God any different than anyone else's?" . . . questions that have NOTHING to do with what I wrote, but allowed people to vent their frustration toward religion in general. Fine, I'll take the brunt, but let's stop acting like I ever said I COULD "prove" there was a God. It takes faith, just like BELIEVING there isn't one.

    Problem is, I can admit my faith. Apparently everyone else doesn't need to . . .

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    God shows blasphemers He exists by not striking them dead when they blaspheme. He gets even later on!
    I suppose God also shows he exists by giving kids cancer? Nice guy there. Keep the blasphemers alive. Kill the children

    Sounds like someone worthy of worship.

    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    That was followed up by MULTIPLE threads stating "well, can you prove there is a God?" or "well then what makes your God any different than anyone else's?" . . . questions that have NOTHING to do with what I wrote
    Actually, YOU were the first person to post demanding proof. Derp.

  7. #47
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    When the family unit breaks down everything follows suit, throw in the need for two income families and it is the beginning of the end.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    People used to believe a lot of weird stuff. As time goes by, belief in the ridiculous gets tossed to the side for things that are verifiable and based in reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post

    Actually, YOU were the first person to post demanding proof. Derp.
    Don't know why I even bother, but if you're saying it's "verifiable" that there is no God, then yes -- I demand proof. I've devoted forty years of my life to my faith, and I'd rather not continue to waste my time just because you're being selfish with your inside information . . .

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    I've devoted forty years of my life to my faith, and I'd rather not continue to waste my time just because you're being selfish with your inside information . . .
    I admit it, I LOL'd.

  10. #50
    Never quite understood why some think that you have to follow a certain religion, or follow certain beliefs. I'm indifferent to it all.

    In the same way I do not have a favorite hockey team because I do not follow hockey, I do not have religious beliefs because I do not follow religion.

    Chalk me up as 1 of the 5.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    Don't know why I even bother, but if you're saying it's "verifiable" that there is no God, then yes -- I demand proof. I've devoted forty years of my life to my faith, and I'd rather not continue to waste my time just because you're being selfish with your inside information . . .
    Put that 40 years of "faith" to work and prove that you cancer giving god exists.

    Do it.

    Prove it.


    Sent from my Double-Wide using Semaphore...

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Put that 40 years of "faith" to work and prove that you cancer giving god exists.

    Do it.

    Prove it.


    Sent from my Double-Wide using Semaphore...
    While the multi-quote option is a beautiful thing, I really have no desire to go back and show all the times I've said believing in God requires FAITH (Hebrews 11:1 anyone?) This debate has never been about proving God DOES exist -- it's about people like you who like to spew out your childish "chariot in the sky" examples as "evidence" there is no God.

    I get it -- you got issues. I wish I could help, but I doubt I could. Go back and read the thread and tell me if you really think I've been pushing facts about God's existence, or just the stupidity of saying we're getting "smarter" for no longer believing in Him. If that statement were true, then yes -- there SHOULD be proof He doesn't exist. Otherwise, what makes it definitively the smarter choice? In regards to God, EVERYONE puts their faith somewhere -- I just wish some people would stop hiding behind false truths and just admit they don't WANT to believe . . .

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    This debate has never been about proving God DOES exist -- it's about people like you who like to spew out your childish "chariot in the sky" examples as "evidence" there is no God.
    This is NOT what the "debate" was about. It was about the dwindling number of religious people in this country.


    Instead on concentrating on that, you decided to do this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

    Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or "appeal to ignorance" (where "ignorance" stands for: "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false, it is "generally accepted" (or vice versa).
    Last edited by PlumberKhan; 10-12-2012 at 08:18 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    This is NOT what the "debate" was about. It was about the dwindling number of religious people in this country.


    Instead on concentrating on that, you decided to do what religious people do best:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

    Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or "appeal to ignorance" (where "ignorance" stands for: "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false, it is "generally accepted" (or vice versa).
    Do you really believe that belonging to a community based on shared faith that believes in family commitment, community commitment and a greater purpose in life then the material world we live in is less enlightened or more ignorant then the position of those who choose to disconect from family, community and a higher purpose to their lives then your enlightened position?

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    I just wish some people would stop hiding behind false truths and just admit they don't WANT to believe . . .
    I don't think there are any false truths that non-believers are using to claim there is no God - what's an example? And I really think most would rather believe, at least in some sort of afterlife-type thing.

    For me, what makes that all but impossible, is the fact that the things that most point to as proof that there must be a God, the unexplainable things in our universe, bear a striking resemblance to the worship of Gods in past civilizations to explain what they otherwise couldn't - until science figured it out, as I'm confident it will again someday, rendering this whole discussion moot.

    And let's stop arguing to prove that something DOESN'T exist - you can't do it, and it doesn't mean that thing DOES exist just because you can't.

    I believe there's an invisible living marshmallow that serves only one purpose - he breaks things the day after the warranty expires. How else can you explain it? Prove me wrong.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Do you really believe that belonging to a community based on shared faith that believes in family commitment, community commitment and a greater purpose in life then the material world we live in is less enlightened or more ignorant then the position of those who choose to disconect from family, community and a higher purpose to their lives then your enlightened position?
    I believe in family commitment, community commitment and a greater purpose in life than the material world.

    I don't need to believe in god to have these beliefs.

    This whole argument is silly, people who believe have FAITH, which doesn't rely on PROOF, so lets not all try and PROVE god exists. Some people have faith and some don't. I have never felt it, sometimes I have been jealous of those who do, I felt like I was missing something. But over the years I have come to terms with being an atheist. I don't try and convince others of my feelings.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    I believe in family commitment, community commitment and a greater purpose in life than the material world.

    I don't need to believe in god to have these beliefs.

    This whole argument is silly, people who believe have FAITH, which doesn't rely on PROOF, so lets not all try and PROVE god exists. Some people have faith and some don't. I have never felt it, sometimes I have been jealous of those who do, I felt like I was missing something. But over the years I have come to terms with being an atheist. I don't try and convince others of my feelings.
    Who said you did have to believe in god? I don't believe in God but I do believe in organized religion because most of the Church's, temples and masques I have attended for celebrations and burials have been about community and a higher purpose in life even if you reject the concept of a creator.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Do you really believe that belonging to a community based on shared faith that believes in family commitment, community commitment and a greater purpose in life then the material world we live in is less enlightened or more ignorant then the position of those who choose to disconect from family, community and a higher purpose to their lives then your enlightened position?
    I didn't say he was ignorant, I said he was using a debating technique known as an "argument from ignorance" also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or "appeal to ignorance" (where "ignorance" stands for:"lack of evidence to the contrary")...


  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Who said you did have to believe in god? I don't believe in God but I do believe in organized religion because most of the Church's, temples and masques I have attended for celebrations and burials have been about community and a higher purpose in life even if you reject the concept of a creator.
    Yes but the entire institution is based on the belief. It wouldn't even exist without it.

    We would be far better off if we had that community based on respect for fellow man rather than a belief system that excludes non-believers.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    Yes but the entire institution is based on the belief. It wouldn't even exist without it.

    We would be far better off if we had that community based on respect for fellow man rather than a belief system that excludes non-believers.
    No the entire institution is based on participation and I would bet a very large number of participants in organized religion don't believe in a creator as preached by the hierarchy of their religion yet participate and get something of value out of it anyway.

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