Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 61 to 71 of 71

Thread: An unsophisticated analysis - Sanchez's steady progress 2009 - 2011

  1. #61
    All League
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    3,380
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    I thought I'd compare Mark's passer rating, QBR, and DVOA from his first 4 seasons so far. Let's see his league-wide ranks:

    2009:

    Passer rating - 28th; QBR - 26th; DVOA - 35th

    2010:

    Passer rating - 27th; QBR - 18th; DVOA - 28th

    2011:

    Passer rating - 23rd; QBR - 30th; DVOA - 29th

    2012:

    Passer rating - 31st; QBR - 31st; DVOA - 29th

    How could anyone think this guy is a good player? I mean seriously....
    Wow, that really puts it into a context that is both hard to dispute and hard to stomach.

  2. #62
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Manhattan, NY
    Posts
    9,542
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason423 View Post
    Not exactly. He was more accurate passing the football over a long stretch but his YPC was off the charts low, meaning he was throwing nothing pass routes while Sanchez was taking more difficult routes. I think in looking at some of the overall picture (I have other charts I never published) Sanchez tracks worse than Carr and Leftwich. Hes pretty similar to Alex Smith and I think you can make a case that he fits with Harrington and Boller.

    Eli is the one shining light. The thing is if you are waiting for Sanchez= Eli you really need to wait until about year 6. It wasnt before that that Eli made the real leap into being an above average QB, outside of the late game heroics that he would pull off, but the Giants had a better team and easier conference to play in so they could still be a success and not let the fans get as upset.
    This is true, but again, Eli is the anomaly. Sanchez is far more likely to end up like Harrington or Boller than Eli. Plus the way the Jets have built the team has really hurt Sanchez a lot, IMO. He hasn't developed and there aren't enough skill players around him. There's no way the Jets are going to wait until year 6 to see if he develops as they are only really tied to him through the end of next season.

  3. #63
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    12,686
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Manchez View Post
    jetstream23

    Everything presented here is exactly what's happening to this offense. Obvious downgrades and injuries to the skill positions and a drop-off in OL play gets you exactly what we now have, a struggling offense.

    Some delusional posters won't let the facts get in the way of their Sanchez hate though...
    and other delusional and misguided Sanchez fans refuse to be JETS fans and hope that the team wins with ANY QB at the helm. What difference does it make who our QB is as long as we are winning? To them it has to be their guy! Too bad! This is a team game!

  4. #64
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    12,686
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist View Post
    This is true, but again, Eli is the anomaly. Sanchez is far more likely to end up like Harrington or Boller than Eli. Plus the way the Jets have built the team has really hurt Sanchez a lot, IMO. He hasn't developed and there aren't enough skill players around him. There's no way the Jets are going to wait until year 6 to see if he develops as they are only really tied to him through the end of next season.
    and he gets paid a whopping 8.2 million next year as a result of Tannybums extension of Mark's contract.

  5. #65
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Durham, CA
    Posts
    8,460
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    I thought I'd compare Mark's passer rating, QBR, and DVOA from his first 4 seasons so far. Let's see his league-wide ranks:

    2009:

    Passer rating - 28th; QBR - 26th; DVOA - 35th

    2010:

    Passer rating - 27th; QBR - 18th; DVOA - 28th

    2011:

    Passer rating - 23rd; QBR - 30th; DVOA - 29th

    2012:

    Passer rating - 31st; QBR - 31st; DVOA - 29th

    How could anyone think this guy is a good player? I mean seriously....
    He only had 1 year in college?
    We will never get a clear read on Sanchez until he has talent around him. Without a stout O line, a better FB option, a scat back that can create, a ground n pounder, at least 2 legitimate wr threats, a better OC, more experienced QB coach, a stout Run defense to support him, and Tim Tebow OFF the team not to distract him,

    we may never know what kind of gem we have here in #6, until he leaves the franchise and wins 2 SB's Juuuuuuuuuuust like Ely manning, because u know, Eli is the same player.?

  6. #66
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    283
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist View Post
    no offense, but comparing guys who played 25 years ago isn't a fair comparison.

    Not to mention:

    Steve Young wasn't starting again until his 7th season
    Drew Brees was an pro-bowler in his 4th season and was far more accurate than Sanchez ever was
    Elway was good in his 2nd and 4th season,
    Kelly was good even in his rookie season
    Simms didn't turn a corner until his 7th year in the league.

    Again, all of these guys have shown improvemet, Sanchez has not. Plus for eveery one of these guys, there are 5 that bombed out of the league. I'm not saying it's impossible for him to become a solid NFL QB, I'm saying it's far more likely that he will never become a good NFL QB.

    I do agree with whoever wrote upthread about David Carr. The Texans never gave him an Offensive Line and he was pummeled as a rookie, they didn't give him the players he needed and he never developed. I will always believe that he could have been a very good QB under the right circumstances, but the Texans essentially broke him.

    I don't see Sanchez as being too different, he had an OL, but never had great talent around him, and now there is a total lack of ability in the skill players. But, I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that he'll ever be a consistent NFL QB. He'll have his good and even great games, but he's seemingly incapable of stringing 5 good games together.

    Sanchez has never gone 5 consecutive games where he completed more than 52% of his passes.

    Sanchez has never gone 5 consecutive games where he had 5 games with a QB rating above 60

    Sanchez has never gone 5 consecutive games where he threw 200 yards
    Kind of hard to find HOF QB's whose first 3-4 years weren't 25 years or so ago. Every one of those guys has very similar (and some even worse) stats to Mark in their first 3-4 years as well as more college experience and in some cases time on the bench in the NFL to develop a little before starting.

    I was also the one who mentioned Carr because IMHO this is exactly what's happening to Sanchez now. Yes he did have a better O-line his first 2 years and some average wr's and a pretty good power back in TJ, but the dude was raw as hell also.

    Is it really so wrong to think that if Sanchez had a pair of good NFL starting caliber WR's, a heathy Dustin Keller, and a back similar to TJ in 2009 (instead of 3rd string and practice squad WR's, Cumby, and Greene) that his stats would be better and the Jets would be a more competitive team? It's basically common sense right?

    Only a truly elite QB that's already a finished product would have a chance with what the Jets have been marching out there the last 4 weeks. Hell Rogers struggled against the Colts with just one of his WR's out last week and that guy is freaking All World.

    Sanchez had been improving year to year until the disaster of injuries started after he lit up Buffalo. He didn't even have any practice with his starters during camp, but when they were all on the field he was really good. He even looked great in the Steelers game until he took the helmet to chin shot from Timmons. I honestly have no clue how he didn't get knocked the F out from that shot or at least have a concussion, but he finished the game.

    Came back the next week against Miami and should have lit them up. Hill drops a perfect pass in the EZ for a TD, Cumby runs a route too deep and a good throw and easy TD catch for Hill turns into an INT. Gates rounds off his route instead of cutting sharp and turns a good throw into a seemingly ugly pick 6. In the end he leads not one but 2 comeback drives and the Jets win the game anyway. People still complain about his game but don't take into consideration other player's mistakes that made him look worse than he was.

    He's made some stupid mistakes yes, but he's making less of them and making better decisions with the ball. Inexperience at WR and TE have absolutely cost Sanchez better stats, causing drops, turning TD's into INT's and good throws into INT's and a pick 6.

    Yeah he sucked against the 9ers and so did the rest of the team...

    I saw a better Sanchez against another top D in the Texans. The tipped pass to Kerley turns another good pass into an INT and 3 points for them instead of 3 or 7 for us. Another tipped pass from JJ Watt that would have been a TD to Kerley turns another good drive into 3 instead of 7. JJ Watt did what he does to everyone else on those two plays and we lose 10 points.

    What I'm trying to say is that Sanchez has made improvements, but a decimated receiving corp and a non-existent running game have really hurt his stats and the team in general.

    I guess I'm just another Sanchez apologist, but what I just explained is why I think he can actually succeed with a little talent around him.

  7. #67
    All League
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,204
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    I thought I'd compare Mark's passer rating, QBR, and DVOA from his first 4 seasons so far. Let's see his league-wide ranks:

    2009:

    Passer rating - 28th; QBR - 26th; DVOA - 35th

    2010:

    Passer rating - 27th; QBR - 18th; DVOA - 28th

    2011:

    Passer rating - 23rd; QBR - 30th; DVOA - 29th

    2012:

    Passer rating - 31st; QBR - 31st; DVOA - 29th
    This information really can't be repeated enough. Near dead last in almost every category for four years.

    Just think how much more success the team would have had with a QB with just a little more accuracy. Any middle of the road QB would do.

    But no, the Jets married themselves to a bottom tier guy and refuse to let go.

  8. #68
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,100
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jxc View Post
    This information really can't be repeated enough. Near dead last in almost every category for four years.

    Just think how much more success the team would have had with a QB with just a little more accuracy. Any middle of the road QB would do.

    But no, the Jets married themselves to a bottom tier guy and refuse to let go.
    I completely agree ... This is Ryan's biggest flaw. He does not play the best player, he consistently plays 'his guys'. Sanchez is one of 'his guys' ... So are Greene and Connor and Scott and Devito and ...
    Last edited by Dunnie; 10-12-2012 at 07:56 AM.

  9. #69
    Practice Squad
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    398
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jxc View Post
    This information really can't be repeated enough. Near dead last in almost every category for four years.

    Just think how much more success the team would have had with a QB with just a little more accuracy. Any middle of the road QB would do.

    But no, the Jets married themselves to a bottom tier guy and refuse to let go.
    Sanchez supporters claim that Sanchez is hampered now by the talent around him and this is true.

    Also they say Sanchez would perform better with a better supporting cast and this is also undoubtedly true.

    But even in a perfect situation how much do people expect to improve on those numbers? Even if he can make large and significant strides as a QB he'll go from one of the worst starting QB's in the league to merely a mediocre one.

  10. #70
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,532
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jxc View Post
    This information really can't be repeated enough. Near dead last in almost every category for four years.

    Just think how much more success the team would have had with a QB with just a little more accuracy. Any middle of the road QB would do.

    But no, the Jets married themselves to a bottom tier guy and refuse to let go.
    And I like these stats because they are a compilation of other statistics, especially QBR and DVOA which encompass all aspects of a QB's play, including sacks, fumbles, game situations, opponent strength, etc.

    All the numbers says Sanchez has been one of the worst QBs in the league the past 4 seasons, and this could be his worst season to date (which is really saying something).

    Can't play the game on the stat sheet, but when every measurable says the guy is bad, he probably is bad. I find it hard to believe that Sanchez is the only QB the past 4 years who had to go through periods of a weak supporting cast, WR drops, injuries, etc. All QBs face those types of obstacles over a long enough period of time. It's just that most of them throw the ball a lot better than Sanchez does.

  11. #71
    All League
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,244
    Post Thanks / Like
    It's a perfect storm. But I think no matter how you spin stats, there's things that need highlighted here that are probably the MOST troublesome:

    1) Sanchez generally forces adjustments for completions. Very few passes are on stride or layed up in a way to allow a WR to make a play.

    To really dig into this, we have to realize that the INT last week off the Cumberland tip isn't really on the young TE. It's squarely on the four year vet QB. An NFL QB's job isn't just to complete passes. It's to complete passes in a way to maximize YAC. In this case, it was a back shoulder throw against Cumberland's momentum.

    I can think back to the Niners game on a 3rd down where the pass was catchable but it was high over the middle and Kerley (I think it was Kerley) basically pulled up and said no, I'm not doing that. Most of the time this is on the WR, but DaShon Goldson, a Landry-level homicidal destroyer was right there. And it wasn't just that pass, it's that most every pass is like that, very few are "wow beautiful pass."

    2) He got swatted by Watt multiple times last week, never seeming to request a roll out or getting more air under balls to avoid that happening. Never audibling to acknowledge this. One could argue that the lack of roll out plays or sliding protection is what's really killing him because he's not very tall.

    3) How many miscommunications are there? How many Sanchez passes are near nobody?

    4) No audibles or seeming control of the huddle. He has very limited lack of awareness.

    As an aside, most of this is directly from Steve Young following the Monday Night game. He said it himself, and I paraphrase:

    "Sanchez has great footwork, a quick release, a strong arm, and is mobile. But the game has never slowed down for him. I had similar issues and it took a change of scenery for me to have it all come together for me.......well that and Jerry Rice."

    5) Horrendous options: See what Young said there? Jerry Rice. Possibly the greatest football player ever. Young was in Tampa Bay and awful. As a West Coast guy, he needed the move back and it did wonders for him. If these guys were serious about trying to help Mark, they would have at least gotten a decent RB and not waited until the last week of camp to name a starting RT. They also wouldn't have stripped him of a wideout who worked for him in Edwards.

    Bottom line:

    This entire situation with how Sanchez was handled is more of an indictment of the front office than anything else. Holmes is a prima-donna "gimme da damned ball" guy who isn't going to play well with a kid struggling from culture shock and with limited preparedness at handling it.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us