Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 140

Thread: Affirmative Action

  1. #21
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    23,083
    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post



    Since its so easy for you to dismiss this sarcastically when a mere white kid is involved (and who cares less about them, then uberlib white kids)....do some reading on how some deserving Asian kids are passed over because they dont fit this "student body" ideal that the colleges are allegedly looking for.

    Many Asian families are being counceled to not check the Asian box when applying to some of the better schools.

    Tell me again what the incentive is to study and apply yourself?

    Its a slippery slope.

    -
    Here's a good article on exactly that:

    http://www.hyphenmagazine.com/magazi...d-part-getting

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Lemme play Devil's advocate here:

    So, from your experience, schools in general will seek a wide range of students (race, socio-economic, wealth, ability etc.) because it's better for the school, its students and its programs.


    So, why is it necessary to have a law to force schools to do it if they already will do so on their own?

    Granted, "back in the day", schools DID bar students based on race. So the law was necessary back then.

    But is the law still necessary now?
    The law doesn't force schools to do anything. It simply says that if admissions offices choose to take race into account, and they do it as a factor in the way I've described, it isn't an equal protection violation (while racial quotas would be).

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    Huh?

    I trully believe your post is well intentioned, but to me (obviously not as educated and erudite as youself) its alot of purty talk for Colleges should be allowed to discriminate against deserving white kids in the name of diversity and an improved educational experience...when if the opposite occured....there would hell to pay.


    -
    I'm sure the opposite has occurred. Schools like Alabama Agricultural (95% black) undoubtedly give non-black applicants a slight edge over similarly situated black applicants given the nature of their student population.

    More, what do you mean by "deserving" white kids. In what way is the white kid more deserving than the black kid? No two kids - no two white kids, no two black kids, no two black and white kids - are exactly equivalent. There's always a weighing of things beyond pure grades - talents and aptitudes, attitudes and desires, and backgrounds - that have nothing to do with race. Many qualified applicants (of all races) don't get into schools they are "qualified" for (based on SAT scores and grades). That's life in a competitive world. And I have yet to see a "deserving" kid get shut out of college entirely, because if you don't get into one school, you get into another, similar school (if you apply to the right places).

    And that's true at every level; there are kids in Harvard who got turned down by Yale, Chicago, and/or Princeton, and vice versa. And there are kids at Stonybrook who got turned down by Hofstra, and vice versa.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    Race conscious (but not race based) admissions have been legal under supreme court precedent for about a decade, and should, IMO, continue to remain so. Schools have legitimate interests in maintaining diverse student populations, and race - as well as socioeconomic background, religion, and ethnicity are all viable factors a school should be able to consider in determining the composition of its incoming freshman class. All that said, I doubt it's a significant factor and the dismissal of the student plaintiff's case will and should be dismissed since there's no way (given the complex mix of factors involved) to assert that she "should have" been admitted.
    As I am sure you've guessed, I disagree with every single word of your opinion on this issue. Well-meaning rationalization for engaging in blatant descrimination does not justify that descrimination. I reject the assumed "value" of so-called diversity for it's own sake, as it's simply another form of descrimination and race-based revenge-as-policy (assuming a white and black pair is inherantly "better" than a white and white pair, ignoring completely the actual individuals in question), and the more accurate use socio-politically of "diversity" as a tool for active descrimination based upon race as a form of revenege or repayment of past generational wreongdoings.

    And it could be much easier to "prove" than you might think. All she needs, frankly, is a student of color who was admitted despite having less activities and lower socred/grades than her, thus proving that race was THE factor involved in her denial and the student of color's admittence.

    And I have yet to see a "deserving" kid get shut out of college entirely, because if you don't get into one school, you get into another, similar school (if you apply to the right places).
    Sounds alot like "Hey, just cause we won't let you sit at the front of the bus because you're black, there is no harm done, there are plenty of OTHER seats available in the back".
    Last edited by Warfish; 10-11-2012 at 05:54 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    I'm sure the opposite has occurred. Schools like Alabama Agricultural (95% black) undoubtedly give non-black applicants a slight edge over similarly situated black applicants given the nature of their student population.

    More, what do you mean by "deserving" white kids. In what way is the white kid more deserving than the black kid? No two kids - no two white kids, no two black kids, no two black and white kids - are exactly equivalent. There's always a weighing of things beyond pure grades - talents and aptitudes, attitudes and desires, and backgrounds - that have nothing to do with race. Many qualified applicants (of all races) don't get into schools they are "qualified" for (based on SAT scores and grades). That's life in a competitive world. And I have yet to see a "deserving" kid get shut out of college entirely, because if you don't get into one school, you get into another, similar school (if you apply to the right places).

    And that's true at every level; there are kids in Harvard who got turned down by Yale, Chicago, and/or Princeton, and vice versa. And there are kids at Stonybrook who got turned down by Hofstra, and vice versa.
    Good point

  6. #26
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Un-Pleasantville
    Posts
    6,669
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    I'm sure the opposite has occurred. Schools like Alabama Agricultural (95% black) undoubtedly give non-black applicants a slight edge over similarly situated black applicants given the nature of their student population.

    More, what do you mean by "deserving" white kids. In what way is the white kid more deserving than the black kid? No two kids - no two white kids, no two black kids, no two black and white kids - are exactly equivalent. There's always a weighing of things beyond pure grades - talents and aptitudes, attitudes and desires, and backgrounds - that have nothing to do with race. Many qualified applicants (of all races) don't get into schools they are "qualified" for (based on SAT scores and grades). That's life in a competitive world. And I have yet to see a "deserving" kid get shut out of college entirely, because if you don't get into one school, you get into another, similar school (if you apply to the right places).

    And that's true at every level; there are kids in Harvard who got turned down by Yale, Chicago, and/or Princeton, and vice versa. And there are kids at Stonybrook who got turned down by Hofstra, and vice versa.
    That is pure grade A fancy lib BS right there. I made it to the waiting list for Penn, the #1 Business School in the USA. If there was one minority or female candidate accepted over me with a lower SAT score and/or GPA and/or extracurricular activities, and I am 100% certain there was, I was denied a unique opportunity, which may have led to superior career opportunities as a result of misguided, institutionalized discrimination....there's nothing "competitive" (or Constitutional) about race, gender, or ethnicity based discrimination.

    I was accepted to other fine, but lesser institutions and graduated from one of them, but then as now it was not quite the same. Nothing similar to Penn and no place to go but down from #1. But, if it was done to redress the historical oppression of other folks by other other folks all of which I had and have absolutely nothing to do with, it was all for the betterment of society
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 10-11-2012 at 06:42 PM.

  7. #27
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    23,083
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    The law doesn't force schools to do anything. It simply says that if admissions offices choose to take race into account, and they do it as a factor in the way I've described, it isn't an equal protection violation (while racial quotas would be).
    Gotcha.

    Why do people have their panties in a bunch about it then?

  8. #28
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    13,566
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Gotcha.

    Why do people have their panties in a bunch about it then?
    Because it is a state funded school. Not sure how this was skipped over in this discussion. People are entitled to a say on policy they're funding, no?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    That is pure grade A fancy lib BS right there. I made it to the waiting list for Penn, the #1 Business School in the USA. If there was one minority or female candidate accepted over me with a lower SAT score and/or GPA and/or extracurricular activities, and I am 100% certain there was, I was denied a unique opportunity, which may have led to superior career opportunities as a result of misguided, institutionalized discrimination....there's nothing "competitive" (or Constitutional) about race, gender, or ethnicity based discrimination.

    I was accepted to other fine, but lesser institutions and graduated from one of them, but then as now it was not quite the same. Nothing similar to Penn and no place to go but down from #1. But, if it was done to redress the historical oppression of other folks by other other folks all of which I had and have absolutely nothing to do with, it was all for the betterment of society
    This explains a lot about you.

    Why are you 100% certain a minority or female was accepted with lesser qualifications?

    Have you ever entertained the idea that you simply didn't make the cut?

    You sound like a victim.

  10. #30
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    The depths of Despair.
    Posts
    40,408
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    This explains a lot about you.

    Why are you 100% certain a minority or female was accepted with lesser qualifications?

    Have you ever entertained the idea that you simply didn't make the cut?

    You sound like a victim.
    You sound like a lib puke.




    -

  11. #31
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    The depths of Despair.
    Posts
    40,408



  12. #32
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    23,083
    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Because it is a state funded school. Not sure how this was skipped over in this discussion. People are entitled to a say on policy they're funding, no?
    Ok.

    So they're being forced to do something?


    Sent from my Double-Wide using Semaphore...

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    This explains a lot about you.

    Why are you 100% certain a minority or female was accepted with lesser qualifications?

    Have you ever entertained the idea that you simply didn't make the cut?

    You sound like a victim.
    I think many who think some race conscious admissions are OK fail to recognize how strong in reality the preference is at many institutions for black applicants.

    In the University of Texas at Austin, which is at issue in the Supreme Court case:
    For example, among freshmen entering the University of Texas at Austin in 2009 who were admitted outside the top-ten-percent system, the mean SAT score (on a scale of 2400) of Asians was a staggering 467 points and the mean score of whites was 390 points above the mean black score. In percentile terms, these Asians scored at the 93rd percentile of 2009 SAT takers nationwide, whites at the 89th percentile, Hispanics at the 80th percentile, and blacks at the 52nd percentile.
    http://sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-con...ylor-brief.pdf at page 3

    This isn't just a small "plus factor," it's a two track admissions system that makes an applicant's race worth about 400 points on the SAT.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    This explains a lot about you.

    Why are you 100% certain a minority or female was accepted with lesser qualifications?

    Have you ever entertained the idea that you simply didn't make the cut?

    You sound like a victim.
    Assuming the situation was as he stated, your hypothetical seems highly unlikely.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    You sound like a lib puke.




    -
    helpful response.

    again, I will ask how he is 100% sure a minority that was less qualified than him was admitted before him?

    he said he was 100% sure. how does he know? Did he hang out at Penn freshman year and spy on women and minorities?

    Please, talk about a sense of entitlement. WAH....I DIDN'T GET INTO PENN AND IT CAN'T BE MY FAULT!!!

    You know, I haven't accomplished everything I ever wanted to do. It never dawned on me that it's not my fault.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Axil View Post
    Assuming the situation was as he stated, your hypothetical seems highly unlikely.
    The situation was he didn't get in to Penn.

    obviously a lesser qualified minority or woman was chosen ahead of him?

  17. #37
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    13,566
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Ok.

    So they're being forced to do something?


    Sent from my Double-Wide using Semaphore...
    Yes, they're being forced to pay taxes, of which a portion are being used by an institution that has a policy that an overwhelming majority of the populace find unfair and/or disgusting.

    What would be the appropriate response for them? To keep forking over their money and "thank you sir, may I have another"? Or should they get to state their case?

  18. #38
    The system SHOULD be very simple. A college sets up a standard for admission. GPA in appropriate course subjects of (whatever number). SAT or ACT scores of (whatever number). That is a minimum.
    Then they look for extracurriculars to show a well rounded student. The best + all around get accepted.
    Athletes should be subject to the EXACT same standards BTW.
    Sex or race should play no part in the decision of acceptance. Except in the case af all female or all male schools (some still exist). Race should not be known except in the case of obvious names.

    I recall having to include a face picture of myself with a couple applications. My game film wasn't clear enough and it was prior to integrated teams in some areas. Glad they don't do that anymore - a liitle too much.

    Minorities do not have to be given special treatment. They have the exact same opportunity (there's that ugly word again) to study and achieve as anyone else.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    Race should not be known except in the case of obvious names.
    Like Shaniqua?

  20. #40
    I'm in the process of re-financing all on line. At the end of the application it asked me to identify the race or ethnicity I belonged to in order to protect me from descrimination.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us