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Thread: VP Debate

  1. #21
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    I don't think anyone "won", per se. Ryan looked a little green and did his best to reflect a calm demeanor and parrot Romney's talking points. His inexperience showed in a few places.

    Biden did his best to be the anti-Obama from the first debate and show more conviction and toughness. Personally, I think it was a little much -- and the split screen made him look awful. Smirking, rolling his eyes, fake gasping. All of these theatrical machinations made him look like exactly what he is, a lifelong legislator who is used to filibustering and hamming it up for the CSPAN cameras on the floor of the Senate. That's fine for a Senator, but isn't exactly ideal for a VP (his constant sarcastic use of "friend" was another callback to his days in the Senate).

    Other times, he looked like a downright bully, interrupting the female moderator and wagging his finger in her face. At one point, he got so exasperated he started scribbling on his note paper absent-mindedly while talking. At some points he looked rather unhinged.

    Content doesn't matter in a VP debate, because they are just going to repeat the talking points of the campaign. So it all comes down to what you prefer: a meek, somewhat nerdy (read: boring) policy wonk, or an older, blustering, quintessential Washington drama queen.

    Both camps will praise their VP candidate for doing a great job. At the end of the day it'll probably be a wash.

  2. #22
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    BREAKING: CNN-ORC post-debate poll of Registered Voters: 48% said Ryan won. 44% said Biden won. Sampling error: +-5%. #CNNDebate

    — Sam Feist (@SamFeistCNN) October 12, 2012

    CNN/ORC POLL October 3 DEBATE WATCHERS Who Was More Likeable? Ryan 53% Biden 43%

    — Peter Hamby (@PeterHambyCNN) October 12, 2012

    CNN/ORC POLL October 3 DEBATE WATCHERS Who Was More In Touch With Problems of People Like You? Ryan 51%, Biden 44%

    — Peter Hamby (@PeterHambyCNN) October 12, 2012

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La_H6...ature=youtu.be

  3. #23
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    You forgot to mention this about the CNN poll, I'm sure it was an oversight on your part.

    Forty-eight percent of voters who watched the vice presidential debate think that Rep. Paul Ryan won the showdown, according to a CNN/ORC International nationwide poll conducted right after Thursday night's faceoff. Forty-four percent say that Vice President Joe Biden was victorious. The Republican running mate's four point advantage among a debate audience that was more Republican than the country as a whole is within the survey's sampling error.





    Fifty percent of uncommitted voters who tuned into Thursday night's vice presidential debate in Danville, Ky., said they see Vice President Joe Biden as the winner over Mitt Romney's GOP running mate Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., according to an instant poll taken by CBS News.

    Of the 431 polled immediately following the debate, 31 percent deemed Ryan the winner, and 19 percent said they felt it was a tie. Party-wise it's a switch from last week's presidential debate, which uncommitted voters handed easily to Romney over President Obama.
    Last edited by Timmy®; 10-12-2012 at 08:32 AM.

  4. #24
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    Here's a roundup of what the pundits thought (from Politico):

    While members of the media disagreed over who won the vice presidential debate - or whether it was a draw - there was one subject they couldn't stop talking about: Vice President Joe Biden's constant amusement.

    Fox News's Brit Hume predicted that voters will pick a debate winner based on whether they liked Biden's smirking and laughing or thought it was disrespectful to GOP vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan's remarks.

    "What you saw while Paul Ryan was talking, was smirking, laughing, smiling, mugging by the vice president," Hume said. "And my sense about it was that it was so compelling that people probably couldn't take their eyes off of it. And so it'll come down to whether people thought that was attractive or not. Myself, I didn't. I thought it was unattractive, I thought it was rude and I have a feeling it will come across to an awful lot of people as rude. It looked like a cranky old man to some extent, debating a polite young man."

    NBC News's David Gregory said supporters of Biden might be pleased with the performance, but it may have alienated other viewers.

    "The smile, the laugh, I think a lot of people may view that and think that he was a little too hot, too aggressive, maybe condescending," the "Meet the Press" host said. "I think supporters of the president and Joe Biden will say, hey this was refreshing. He was feisty, he was aggressive, he was seeking in some ways to belittle Ryan as a challenger here in the arena and that was something we didn't see out of the president."

    NBC News's Savannah Guthrie said she was "struck by how fiery and at times acrimonious this debate was," and also weighed in on Biden's reactions.

    "With regard to Biden laughing, I'm starting to think how to react, what to do when you're not speaking, must be the most difficult task in these debates because we've see time and time again candidates having such a hard time with it," Guthrie said. "I think the fundamental question here remains, though, is anything that was said here tonight persuasive at all to independent voters, those who haven't made up their minds. I think there were moments in this debate where it felt like the candidates were having this extended conversation with themselves and almost forgot the audience at home and that they are also supposed to be having a conversation with America."

    And Fox News Sunday host Chris Wallace slammed Biden as "openly disrespectful" and "contemptuous" in a way he's never seen before during national political debates.

    "I think I have watched almost every presidential and vice presidential debate since the first four Kennedy-Nixon debates in 1960 and thinking back over the last few minutes, I don't believe I have ever seen a debate in which one participant was as openly disrespectful of the other as Biden was to Paul Ryan tonight," Wallace said. "And that's what it was. You can talk about the smirks, the smiles, the head shaking, the mugging. It was openly contemptuous and disrespectful. And it wasn't just the facial gestures, it was also the words."

    Meanwhile, on CNN, Wolf Blitzer said the debate "looks like, at least to me, pretty much of a draw." Blitzer added that he thought the two candidates were "pretty happy with their respective performances."

    His colleague John King agreed, saying "there was not a wipe-out in this debate."

    CNN's chief political analyst Gloria Borger, meanwhile, focused on Biden's animated style, calling it "condescending."

    "It was condescending at times to Paul Ryan," Borger said. "And I think I could've done with a lot less eye rolling and chuckling on the part of Joe Biden. However, I thought it was a great debate. I think it was one of the most substantive debates or engagements we've seen throughout this campaign. I think if people are undecided, they would decide."

    Host Anderson Cooper jumped in, adding, "you certainly could not take your eyes off him. You could not turn away for a second."

  5. #25
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    I thought Biden won the debate because he controlled the debate. When I thought about what Biden actually said, I realize how screwed we are.

    Bided pointed out that SS is solid only through 2024. He also pointed out that he wants to extend the Bush tax cuts and the additional Obama tax cuts while admitting that letting them expire for the top rate only brings in about 800 Billion over 10 years.

    What struck me is incomes are dropping more people are on assitance then at any time in this countries existence, the infrastructure is crumbling and Biden's answer seems to be who are you going to trust while admitting the are only looking for revenue from a few thousand families.

    Clearly we can't insure another 30 million Americans, support the retiring baby boom generation while running up debts of trillions of dollars on the backs of a handful of families over the next 10 years. It was utter nonsense and the kind of BS that any good opposition candidate would have called him on if there plan had any substance at all.

    What I learned from that debate is how totally screwed we are. If we are going to cover more people including those who are retiring and no longer productive and rebuild this country and sustain our position in the world we are going to have to massively increase taxes and reduce the overall lifestyle of the rich the middle class and anyone else who has a pulse.

    I thought the debate was really good in terms that most people who aren't partisan got a chance to see the real problems we are facing and the absolute nonsense that both parties are selling.

    Trust me what Biden was selling isn't going to cut it and war and tax cuts, that Romney is proposing isn't going to cut it either. We need to get our priorities in order and start raising taxes on everyone to meet them and sooner rather than later or massively shrink our commitments both at home and overseas something neither side has even discussed.

  6. #26
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    Ryan won the post debate polls on CNN, CNBC and AP.

    Worse, Biden lied about the Obama admin NOT getting prior warning to Benghazi. Joe - if you're going to lie about anything don't lie about Bhengazi!!



    Expect Repubs to run wild with that!

    Two more Presidential debates and I see NO way that Obama wins either. He might tie - that's the best he can hope for.

    Biden was supposed to stop the Romney momentum last night and I don't think he did.


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post

    Trust me what Biden was selling isn't going to cut it and war and tax cuts, that Romney is proposing isn't going to cut it either. We need to get our priorities in order and start raising taxes on everyone to meet them and sooner rather than later or massively shrink our commitments both at home and overseas something neither side has even discussed.
    without a doubt, but pitch this to the US people and you'll never be president.

    things have been out of control for a long time. like many people, i built up too much debt. thankfully I got out of it, but life isn't the partay it once was. i don't travel as much or go out as much. nothing like paying with play money (credit)

    anyone who thinks this country is going back to the way it was is ignorant. competing globally is killing us - we once had a monopoly in some areas. we have to tighten our budgets and be more responsible. life isn't supposed to be about luxury and entertainment, that wasn't what life was 50 years ago in this country.

    we need a huge correction. a good start would be telling millionaires who want you to pay hundreds for concert or football tickets to f*** off. seriously, is there a more concrete example of how irresponsible we are with our money?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlbanyJet View Post

    Biden was supposed to stop the Romney momentum last night and I don't think he did.

    the fact that you only said "i don't think he did" means he certainly did

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy® View Post
    the fact that you only said "i don't think he did" means he certainly did
    He re-energized the democratic base, he came off as a tool to Conservatives and I'm not sure independents who are worried about our debt and our commitments to SS and Medicare bought a word he was saying.

    The only place he scored any tangible points with moderates who might be undecided was on Iran.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy® View Post
    the fact that you only said "i don't think he did" means he certainly did
    Hi!

    When you lose the CNN, CNBC and AP post debate polls you (Biden) failed to stop Romney's momentum.

    Period!


  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy® View Post
    without a doubt, but pitch this to the US people and you'll never be president.

    things have been out of control for a long time. like many people, i built up too much debt. thankfully I got out of it, but life isn't the partay it once was. i don't travel as much or go out as much. nothing like paying with play money (credit)

    anyone who thinks this country is going back to the way it was is ignorant. competing globally is killing us - we once had a monopoly in some areas. we have to tighten our budgets and be more responsible. life isn't supposed to be about luxury and entertainment, that wasn't what life was 50 years ago in this country.

    That is the conservatives problem with the current trend of fiscally irresponsible but socially conservative Republicans. As many have said it is next to impossible to win by running on cutting a lot of stuff, just ask Ron Paul, but the reality is it needs to happen now if we are going to keep afloat.
    we need a huge correction. a good start would be telling millionaires who want you to pay hundreds for concert or football tickets to f*** off. seriously, is there a more concrete example of how irresponsible we are with our money?
    This may be appropriate for your finances and priorities but not necessarily for everyone's. We are talking about national taxes/expenditures. Spending needs to be cut back and taxes probably could go up a bit though I am loathe to give the government an extra nickle of "revenues" because that means they will raise spending by a quarter.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlbanyJet View Post
    Hi!

    When you lose the CNN, CNBC and AP post debate polls you (Biden) failed to stop Romney's momentum.

    Period!

    You mean this poll?
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/49327648
    Biden 49 Ryan 46 neither 5

  13. #33
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    After last night (really after the last 40 years), can anyone honestly say Biden should be a heartbeat away from being POTUS? lol - what a ****ing clown.

    Ryan should have told him that his lies on Benghazi contradicted sworn testimony from earlier in the week.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlbanyJet View Post
    Hi!

    When you lose the CNN, CNBC and AP post debate polls you (Biden) failed to stop Romney's momentum.

    Period!

    shocking you ignored the cbs poll.

    biden-50
    ryan-31
    tie-19

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...ed-voters-say/

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Amendment View Post
    shocking you ignored the cbs poll.

    biden-50
    ryan-31
    tie-19

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...ed-voters-say/
    I guess after 2 debates Democrats and Republicans can both agree that the liar wins debates in this country.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by adb280z View Post
    You mean this poll?
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/49327648
    Biden 49 Ryan 46 neither 5
    Shock! It's been updated!

    Still no victory there for Biden. He couldn't hit 50% and the CNN Likabilty poll had Ryan 53% to Biden 43%.

    Biden also hit 50% in a CBS post debate poll of uncommitted voters. Not sure what the possible take away there is for Biden.

    If Biden had more composure, laughed less, smirked less and just simply wasn't a complete condescending jerk last night he would have won on substance alone.


  17. #37
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    My take:

    This debate was difficult to watch. Biden did a good job as far as projecting some grasp of the issues. The problem was his constant interruptions and faces and eye rolls and rude chuckles reminded me of everything that is wrong with the Obama administration. They literally react with disdain and contempt to any ideas or concepts that differ from theirs. How do two sides come together when one literally rolls their eyes and laughs in the face of the other when presenting ideas.

    In the end it was a double edged sword. Biden did what he came to do which was be the aggressive attack dog. He succeeded there. That success comes with a cost however. Swing/independent voters are absolutely turned off by stuff like that. I believe that Ryan's likability will go up in the coming days while Joe's will go down. Biden succeeded in getting the red meat to his base which I believe was his intention. Ryan came off as cooler calmer and more respectful. That said he could have done a better job putting a stop to Joe's rudeness. No red meat for the base but his style will appeal to independents/swing voter types that don't like the confrontational behavior.

    Regardeless of the polls that say Biden or Ryan won I think this one was not a poll mover one way or the other. I doubt it was heavily watched as even I found myself flipping over to the Steelers game more often then not.

  18. #38
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    "This VP debate will have a huge impact on the race", said nobody ever.

  19. #39
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    The debate last night was like two guys in a bar talking. One sober - Ryan. The other drunk - Biden.

    The other bar patrons listen and think that the unlikeable drunk was factually more correct but since he's a complete jerk the patrons find it understandable why the likaeble sober guy didn't want to engage in a conversation to present his facts.

    Biden interrupted Ryan 82 times.

    How many times last night did Biden ask for equal time? How much more time did he actually have over Ryan?


  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    My take:

    This debate was difficult to watch. Biden did a good job as far as projecting some grasp of the issues. The problem was his constant interruptions and faces and eye rolls and rude chuckles reminded me of everything that is wrong with the Obama administration. They literally react with disdain and contempt to any ideas or concepts that differ from theirs. How do two sides come together when one literally rolls their eyes and laughs in the face of the other when presenting ideas.

    In the end it was a double edged sword. Biden did what he came to do which was be the aggressive attack dog. He succeeded there. That success comes with a cost however. Swing/independent voters are absolutely turned off by stuff like that. I believe that Ryan's likability will go up in the coming days while Joe's will go down. Biden succeeded in getting the red meat to his base which I believe was his intention. Ryan came off as cooler calmer and more respectful. That said he could have done a better job putting a stop to Joe's rudeness. No red meat for the base but his style will appeal to independents/swing voter types that don't like the confrontational behavior.

    Regardeless of the polls that say Biden or Ryan won I think this one was not a poll mover one way or the other. I doubt it was heavily watched as even I found myself flipping over to the Steelers game more often then not.
    I generally agree with this take.

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