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Thread: PFT: Stanton claims he was promised opportunity to start if Sanchez "struggled"

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    I need a brief SOJ moment myself:

    - Offseason. Jets QB situation dicey. Many fans want an upgrade, or at least a backup that can step in if the starter continues to struggle.
    - Jets actually sign a backup who was highly regarded coming out of college, with limited experience but all the physical tools.
    - Peyton Manning becomes available. Jets fans discuss the possibility of acquiring Manning for weeks.

    - Instead of coming to the Jets, Peyton Manning is signed by the Broncos, leading to a ridiculous trade for the one backup QB in the NFL who has less talent for the position than Stanton, but who has too large of a presence to keep Stanton on the roster. If Peyton Manning is signed by ANY other football team in the NFL, Tebow stays where he is and Drew Stanton is taking snaps by Week 9.

    Not to mention that the Manning acquisition is orchestrated by the man who ended the Jets' most realistic chance to win their second Super Bowl in '98.

    The Jets are a MFing greek tragedy.


    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    Hilarity ensues? I'm missing that part. Perhaps you meant train wreck ensues?
    I meant for the 99.99999999901% of the world that arent Jet fans.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    All this does is show you that the decision to trade for Tebow was driven all by Woody. There is no way anyone can say otherwise. If Tanny and Rex were really interested in attaining Tebow they would have not signed Stanton when they did. Everyone knew there was a high probability Manning was going to sign with Denver, so why not wait a few days to see how things play out before you sign a guy(Stanton), and waste $500k on a guy you think you may not need in a few days.
    That pretty much sums it up.

    The Jets unquestionably have one of, if not the most, dysfunctional front office situations of any team in the NFL.

    You've got a GM who really isn't a personnel guy. You've got an owner who likes to tinker when a publicity/media opportunity arises and exerts his will on the GM. And you've got a HC who is still a DC and has no clue how to build a team (on either side of the ball) and has little to no interest in the quality of players on the offensive side of the ball.

    In summary, the Jets currently have NO ONE who has even a clue as to how to build a football team.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmitexxi View Post
    Does Rex loyalty matter?? Doesn't change the fact that Tebow is a TERRIBLE QB. Rather finish with the worst record possible at this point for the draft.
    If Sanchez continues to struggle running the offense, either due to his limitations or the limitations of the surrounding cast. The team is best served by evaluating Tebow in the same offense that mark is running. They need to know how Tebow will perform on game day after taking the starters snaps during the week. The jets need to know where they stand before making a long range qb decision.

    The team also owes it to the fan base to turn over every rock.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    If Sanchez continues to struggle running the offense, either due to his limitations or the limitations of the surrounding cast. The team is best served by evaluating Tebow in the same offense that mark is running. They need to know how Tebow will perform on game day after taking the starters snaps during the week. The jets need to know where they stand before making a long range qb decision.

    The team also owes it to the fan base to turn over every rock.
    I don't agree with that. Tebow is best evaluated in a spread option offense, which at this point, is damn near impossible to create in a successful manner this season.

    But that's ok, because if they fail, they can just blame it on the spread option philosophy and how it doesn't work at the NFL level, when they slap it together in one week, with the wrong type of personnel, mediocre personnel at that.

    Unless their scope is to use the remaining of the season to let Tebow develop as a traditional pocket passer, which wouldn't be the worst idea, I don't think there will be some amazing revelation if you just sub out Mark for Tebow without any changes to your offensive philosophy.

    Personally, I don't really have any faith Sporano is capable of designing an intuitive and solid NFL level spread option offense. Hope he proves me wrong, but I just don't get this vibe that he is some sort of offensive miracle worker.

    I mean...the guy basically started running it after seeing John Fox do it with Deangelo Wiliams. Direct snap to a running back, back in 2009. He ran the same thing with the Dolphins. That's about all I have seen from him. And that's still about what I have seen from him with Tebow, which is very disappointing.

    When he first started talking Wildcat with Tebow, I was HOPING, PRAYING, that he was just using the term to confuse us all and throw some smoke and mirrors in order to not create additional QB controversy considering the spread option is a full blown offense which would reveal they are moving away from Mark.

    But to my surprise, it seems that he really meant it, and basically dumbed down the offense Tebow ran last year(which was incomplete to begin with) to simply the Wildcat. Unbelievable. The Wildcat is basically 1 tiny blimp of the entire offense. It's mainly just a couple of the running plays possible out of a spread option. And so far this year, aside from the 1 pass last week in the Houston game, he has been completely reluctant to try and of the passing aspects of the offense.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post
    I don't agree with that. Tebow is best evaluated in a spread option offense, which at this point, is damn near impossible to create in a successful manner this season.

    But that's ok, because if they fail, they can just blame it on the spread option philosophy and how it doesn't work at the NFL level, when they slap it together in one week, with the wrong type of personnel, mediocre personnel at that.

    Unless their scope is to use the remaining of the season to let Tebow develop as a traditional pocket passer, which wouldn't be the worst idea, I don't think there will be some amazing revelation if you just sub out Mark for Tebow without any changes to your offensive philosophy.

    Personally, I don't really have any faith Sporano is capable of designing an intuitive and solid NFL level spread option offense. Hope he proves me wrong, but I just don't get this vibe that he is some sort of offensive miracle worker.

    I mean...the guy basically started running it after seeing John Fox do it with Deangelo Wiliams. Direct snap to a running back, back in 2009. He ran the same thing with the Dolphins. That's about all I have seen from him. And that's still about what I have seen from him with Tebow, which is very disappointing.

    When he first started talking Wildcat with Tebow, I was HOPING, PRAYING, that he was just using the term to confuse us all and throw some smoke and mirrors in order to not create additional QB controversy considering the spread option is a full blown offense which would reveal they are moving away from Mark.

    But to my surprise, it seems that he really meant it, and basically dumbed down the offense Tebow ran last year(which was incomplete to begin with) to simply the Wildcat. Unbelievable. The Wildcat is basically 1 tiny blimp of the entire offense. It's mainly just a couple of the running plays possible out of a spread option. And so far this year, aside from the 1 pass last week in the Houston game, he has been completely reluctant to try and of the passing aspects of the offense.
    Or......instead of having to re-invent the wheel to suit Tebow, the Jets can go out and get an actual QB that can play QB in the NFL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Or......instead of having to re-invent the wheel to suit Tebow, the Jets can go out and get an actual QB that can play QB in the NFL.
    That's just the thing. They can't.

  7. #27
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    Wouldn't it be nice if Drew Stanton was on the roster right about now?

    He's a complete question mark, but he's young and has some favorable tangibles. He would have been the perfect segue to the post-Sanchez Jets.

    Instead we are stuck finishing the season with someone who is crumbling before our very eyes or someone who belongs in a completely different era of football.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    Wouldn't it be nice if Drew Stanton was on the roster right about now?

    He's a complete question mark, but he's young and has some favorable tangibles. He would have been the perfect segue to the post-Sanchez Jets.

    Instead we are stuck finishing the season with someone who is crumbling before our very eyes or someone who belongs in a completely different era of football.
    I don't know about that. I could argue Tebow belongs exactly in this era and a bunch of teams have waited too long, including the Jets, to get on board.

    Newton
    Luck
    Griffin
    Rodgers
    Wilson
    And to some extent, Vick and Ben.

    All dual threat quarterbacks. Granted Tebow's passing is not as developed as those guys, but it could be much further along by now, if someone believed in it 3 seasons ago when he came out of college.

    Aside from Wilson, Tebow was the only one asked to make a spread option run at the NFL level using conventional offense personnel, and few weapons around him, mid-season, with a coaching staff who doesn't believe in it.....soon to be....twice! With 2 different teams. He's also with his 3rd head coach and 3rd offensive coordinator in his 3rd year.

    If the Broncos had the balls to center around him with McDaniels year 1, he would be very far along in developing his passing aspects by now.

  9. #29
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    Why is struggled quoted?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    Wouldn't it be nice if Drew Stanton was on the roster right about now?

    He's a complete question mark, but he's young and has some favorable tangibles. He would have been the perfect segue to the post-Sanchez Jets.

    Instead we are stuck finishing the season with someone who is crumbling before our very eyes or someone who belongs in a completely different era of football.
    For all the defending of Sanchez that I've done, I wouldn't have a problem benching Sanchez for Stanton to see what he can do. Tebow will never be a good enough QB to beat the Patriots and unfortunately that's our gold standard; isn't it.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post
    I don't know about that. I could argue Tebow belongs exactly in this era and a bunch of teams have waited too long, including the Jets, to get on board.

    Newton
    Luck
    Griffin
    Rodgers
    Wilson
    And to some extent, Vick and Ben.

    All dual threat quarterbacks. Granted Tebow's passing is not as developed as those guys, but it could be much further along by now, if someone believed in it 3 seasons ago when he came out of college.

    Aside from Wilson, Tebow was the only one asked to make a spread option run at the NFL level using conventional offense personnel, and few weapons around him, mid-season, with a coaching staff who doesn't believe in it.....soon to be....twice! With 2 different teams. He's also with his 3rd head coach and 3rd offensive coordinator in his 3rd year.

    If the Broncos had the balls to center around him with McDaniels year 1, he would be very far along in developing his passing aspects by now.
    Yeah no he wouldn't, Tebow is a figment of a mass of delusional fanatics and the media's desire to benefit financially from those football challenged masses. The one thing he absolutely is not is an NFL caliber QB; Fullback maybe but QB definitely not...

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manchez View Post
    Yeah no he wouldn't, Tebow is a figment of a mass of delusional fanatics and the media's desire to benefit financially from those football challenged masses. The one thing he absolutely is not is an NFL caliber QB; Fullback maybe but QB definitely not...
    And your post is nothing but a billboard of nothing but cliche words, made up of nothing but fluff and based on nothing but opinionated stance against Tebow.

    None of what you said is based on any kind of sound football logic or fact. None.

    Unless you are being sarcastic...in which case...right.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post
    I don't know about that. I could argue Tebow belongs exactly in this era and a bunch of teams have waited too long, including the Jets, to get on board.

    Newton
    Luck
    Griffin
    Rodgers
    Wilson
    And to some extent, Vick and Ben.

    All dual threat quarterbacks. Granted Tebow's passing is not as developed as those guys, but it could be much further along by now, if someone believed in it 3 seasons ago when he came out of college.

    Aside from Wilson, Tebow was the only one asked to make a spread option run at the NFL level using conventional offense personnel, and few weapons around him, mid-season, with a coaching staff who doesn't believe in it.....soon to be....twice! With 2 different teams. He's also with his 3rd head coach and 3rd offensive coordinator in his 3rd year.

    If the Broncos had the balls to center around him with McDaniels year 1, he would be very far along in developing his passing aspects by now.
    I don't want to turn this thread into a Tebow debate so I'll just agree to disagree. I've seen enough from Tebow to confidently say he'll never be consistently successful in the NFL. Not all dual threats are created equal, Tebow is simply far too lacking in the most critical functions of being a traditional quarterback.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post
    And your post is nothing but a billboard of nothing but cliche words, made up of nothing but fluff and based on nothing but opinionated stance against Tebow.

    None of what you said is based on any kind of sound football logic or fact. None.

    Unless you are being sarcastic...in which case...right.
    It's based on objectively watching every single game he's ever played in the NFL. I'm not a Tebow fanboi so I can watch him play football without making a tent in my shorts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    I don't want to turn this thread into a Tebow debate so I'll just agree to disagree. I've seen enough from Tebow to confidently say he'll never be consistently successful in the NFL. Not all dual threats are created equal, Tebow is simply far too lacking in the most critical functions of being a traditional quarterback.
    And if I tuly believed what we saw last year with the Broncos, is the finished product of Tim Tebow, I would agree with you.

    But I don't. I think what you saw last year is literally half of what a Tim Tebow offense should look like. I studied in depth what the Panthers did last year with Newton, and it wasn't just Newton. It was also how they BUILT that offense and the way they implemented it from the get go.

    There simply was at least 3 key components missing from the Broncos:

    1. Coaching staff who is pro spread option. You need a coach who believes it can work, and an offensive coordinator who can make it work.
    2. Personnel. You HAVE to have the following components: 2 very good tight ends. 2 running backs who can run, block and catch out of the back field.
    3. Off season. You gotta practice it religiously as you do any other offensive philosophy.

    Do that, and I have no doubt Tebow would be completing in the 55-60% range. His passing and accuracy is fine! He had no short game because they were missing the most important elements of your spread options: check downs. That's your bread and butter.

    Tebow's option on the short game was...tuck and run OR throw it out of bounds. And yes that will guarantee you a 50% completion percentage every time.

    Denver only had the run option down. And used it waaaaaaaaaay too much with a coach who has been criticized his entire career as a run, run, run and run some more dinosaur.

    Unfortunately, I think you have the same exact situation here.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post
    And if I tuly believed what we saw last year with the Broncos, is the finished product of Tim Tebow, I would agree with you.

    But I don't. I think what you saw last year is literally half of what a Tim Tebow offense should look like. I studied in depth what the Panthers did last year with Newton, and it wasn't just Newton. It was also how they BUILT that offense and the way they implemented it from the get go.

    There simply was at least 3 key components missing from the Broncos:

    1. Coaching staff who is pro spread option. You need a coach who believes it can work, and an offensive coordinator who can make it work.
    2. Personnel. You HAVE to have the following components: 2 very good tight ends. 2 running backs who can run, block and catch out of the back field.
    3. Off season. You gotta practice it religiously as you do any other offensive philosophy.

    Do that, and I have no doubt Tebow would be completing in the 55-60% range. His passing and accuracy is fine! He had no short game because they were missing the most important elements of your spread options: check downs. That's your bread and butter.

    Tebow's option on the short game was...tuck and run OR throw it out of bounds. And yes that will guarantee you a 50% completion percentage every time.

    Denver only had the run option down. And used it waaaaaaaaaay too much with a coach who has been criticized his entire career as a run, run, run and run some more dinosaur.

    Unfortunately, I think you have the same exact situation here.
    Are you Skip "Teblowhard" Bayless?

    Cam Newton is a much better spread option QB, much more accurate, and has a cannon for an arm. The Panthers are struggling this year because defenses have caught up to the spread option and even with a stud like Newton it still isn't working. But somehow the less accurate and much slower Tebow should have an NFL team build their offense around him and the spread option...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manchez View Post
    Are you Skip "Teblowhard" Bayless?

    Cam Newton is a much better spread option QB, much more accurate, and has a cannon for an arm. The Panthers are struggling this year because defenses have caught up to the spread option and even with a stud like Newton it still isn't working. But somehow the less accurate and much slower Tebow should have an NFL team build their offense around him and the spread option...
    Much better? He has a stronger arm, but Newton is just as inconsistent and has similar accuracy issues. Holds on to the ball too long, throws high, sometimes unexplicably inaccurate. The difference is his offense is much better to bring out his talents. The Panthers did what a team should if they want to run the spread option which is the 3 things I listed above.

    They have a coaching staff that wanted the spread option offense from day 1.
    They traded for 2 SOLID tight ends - Jeremy Shockey(who is sorely missed this year) and Greg Olson.
    They have 2 SOLID running backs who can catch, run and block - Stewart and Williams.

    And on top of that they also have an elite wide receiver that can at times draw double coverage. Steve Smith.

    Cam is not doing things that much different than what he did in college, even 2 years into the NFL...which is the same exact thing Tebow did in college. Heck they started off on the same team and Newton switched schools cause he was never going to win that job.

    And I don't believe the NFL have caught up with the Panthers. Truth is Cam's playing like crap. Unlike Tebow, Cam's anti-Mr. 4th Quarter having had exactly 1 4th quarter comeback with a loaded offense in 21 games. One.

    That's the Panthers problem. No clutch.


  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    You've got a GM who really isn't a personnel guy. You've got an owner who likes to tinker when a publicity/media opportunity arises and exerts his will on the GM. And you've got a HC who is still a DC and has no clue how to build a team (on either side of the ball) and has little to no interest in the quality of players on the offensive side of the ball.

    In summary, the Jets currently have NO ONE who has even a clue as to how to build a football team.


    Pretty much.











    -

    -

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post
    Much better? He has a stronger arm, but Newton is just as inconsistent and has similar accuracy issues. Holds on to the ball too long, throws high, sometimes unexplicably inaccurate. The difference is his offense is much better to bring out his talents. The Panthers did what a team should if they want to run the spread option which is the 3 things I listed above.

    They have a coaching staff that wanted the spread option offense from day 1.
    They traded for 2 SOLID tight ends - Jeremy Shockey(who is sorely missed this year) and Greg Olson.
    They have 2 SOLID running backs who can catch, run and block - Stewart and Williams.

    And on top of that they also have an elite wide receiver that can at times draw double coverage. Steve Smith.

    Cam is not doing things that much different than what he did in college, even 2 years into the NFL...which is the same exact thing Tebow did in college. Heck they started off on the same team and Newton switched schools cause he was never going to win that job.

    And I don't believe the NFL have caught up with the Panthers. Truth is Cam's playing like crap. Unlike Tebow, Cam's anti-Mr. 4th Quarter having had exactly 1 4th quarter comeback with a loaded offense in 21 games. One.

    That's the Panthers problem. No clutch.

    Seriously man Cam Newton put up record numbers for a rookie QB last year, threw for 60% completions and rushed for 706 yards. In 2012 his completion % has dropped all the way down to 58.8% with a higher YPC and he's on the same pace for rushing stats.

    Tebow will never come close to sniffing Cam Newton's jock strap let alone his Comp %

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manchez View Post
    Seriously man Cam Newton put up record numbers for a rookie QB last year, threw for 60% completions and rushed for 706 yards. In 2012 his completion % has dropped all the way down to 58.8% with a higher YPC and he's on the same pace for rushing stats.

    Tebow will never come close to sniffing Cam Newton's jock strap let alone his Comp %
    Yes he put up impressive record numbers in losing efforts with one hell of an offense and most of the time when the game was on the line he choked. A lot of times stats are a result of the offense around you as much as the quarterback. At the end of the day 1 4th quarter come back win in 21 starts, 7 overall career wins in 21 stars.

    At the end of the day, Cam's 7-14 with the keys to the franchise and a coaching staff who is second to him.

    Tebow's 7-4 as a starting outcast QB. He has yet to be given the same opportunity Cam had to take advantage of his skills.

    Completion percentage and yards is what Newton looks good in but his offense is a big part of that. Tebow has a better touchdown to interception ratio, more comebacks, equal running abilities, with a lot less talent around him. And more importantly better winning percentage.

    If you want raw numbers, Cam will get you that. If you want efficiency, decision making, playing under pressure, Tebow's heads and shoulders above him.

    Efficiency leads to winning. Winning teams are efficient teams with efficient offenses. Cam's not an efficient quarterback. He has a lot of raw talent but needs a lot of work before that talent can actually be put to good use. And so far this year, he's still playing like a rookie.

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