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Thread: Putting a statistical stake in Mark Sanchez's Jets career.

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KR View Post
    Our backup qb brought his team to the playoffs and beat a very good steelers team while our team watched on TV, but there's no way this thread is becoming tebow vs Sanchez.

    This thread is about Sanchez being ranked 28-35 in the league as a qb. There are backups better then him, hence we are not losing much benching him....which will be soon.
    Ok... So heres ur argument...its ok for the Broncos defense to lead their team to the 2nd round of the playoffs despite horrible play from their qb - but when our defense leads us to two straight AFC Championships despite our qb play, that means our qb is a bum and we should swap him out for the broncos qb?

    I love the Jets - but i hate the vocal majority of our idiot fanbase

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    Buzz, what will constitute "dramatic improvement", though?

    And a better question would be :


    What does Rex, Tanny, and Woody consider a "dramatic improvement"?
    Probably +100 QB rating the rest of the way.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    Doesn't matter, he went along for the ride to 2 AFCCG's his first two years.

    Loved his productive stat line where he "defeated" Rivers when Kaeding missed 3 easy FG's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    You're such an ass. You keep making sh1t up as you go along.

    Tomorrow it will be 7 missed FGs.

    It has to be a mental issue that makes you come to a Jet site and troll all day and night.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    No, KR, youre simply dead wrong. There is no way the Jets are absorbing a $17 million cap hit and having to pay $4 million more to get rid of Sanchez than they would have to pay him. There is absolutely no cap savings in cutting Sanchez. That was the whole point of the Sanchez extension from his point of view.

    Jets will have to pay Sanchez $13 million next year regardless of whether he is on the team.

    Im not arguing the other points of your OP. Just admit that your opinion on cutting Sanchez was based on incorrect info and move on.
    There is ALWAYS a way to move a player, or contract.

    Breaking down Sanchez’s “lipstick and powder” contract
    Posted by Mike Florio on March 10, 2012, 1:22 PM EDT
    Mark Sanchez AP

    Yes, Jets quarterback Mark Sanchez will earn $20.5 million in guaranteed money in 2012 and 2013 as part of his new contract. The fact, however, that Sanchez already was due to earn $17.75 million over the next two seasons has prompted one league source to characterize the move as a “lipstick and powder” deal.

    For an extra $2.75 million, Sanchez gave the Jets three straight option years, allowing the team to keep him if he finally realizes his full potential — and to cut him without further investment after the 2013 season, the 2014 season, or the 2015 season.

    The contract also could be called a glorified restructuring. Per a source with knowledge of the details, Sanchez’s $11.75 million base salary for 2012 has been converted to an $8 million signing bonus, a fully-guaranteed base salary of $3.25 million, and a $500,000 workout bonus.

    The move creates $6.4 million in 2012 cap space.

    In 2013, Sanchez will receive a fully-guaranteed base salary of $8.25 million. In 2014, Sanchez is due to receive a $2 million roster bonus on the 15th day of the league year and a non-guaranteed $9 million base salary. In 2015, there’s another $1 million roster bonus due on the 15th day of the league year, plus a non-guaranteed base salary of $12.5 million. In 2016, Sanchez is due another $1 million roster bonus on the 15th day of the league yeaar, plus a base salary of $10.75 million. Workout bonuses of $500,000 apply in each year of the deal.

    The contract contains $10 million in potential escalators, based in part on Super Bowl appearances and/or victories.

    Given the organization’s apparent mixed feelings about Sanchez, getting the extra money and converting all of it to a guaranteed payment was a good career move. He could have been dumped after 2012, with the $6 million due next year forever gone.

    Still, it likely wasn’t an accident that the news of this one came late on a Friday night. It’s hardly a big-money, long-term commitment.

    Which actually will be regarded by plenty of Jets fans as good news.
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...wder-contract/

    We have two options.

    1) In 2013 Sanchez is guaranteed base salary of 8.25. If traded that 8.25 would go on to the next team while we would absorb the rest of the dead money(8.9m). Im pretty sure we can get a 7th rounder for him. That would cut our 2013 dead money from 17m to 8.9 or so.

    OR

    2) We cut him as a June first cut making it 8.6m in 2013/2014. That reduces the dead money in 2013 by half from 17.1 to 8.6.

    Obviously the trade makes a TON more sense, but either way he will be off the team next year.

    Looking at our cap we are absolutely fine for next year
    . Looking at Jasons cap page http://www.nyjetscap.com/salary13.html we are at 141. Take away that phony Jason Smith contract, Bart Scott, and Calvin Paces contracts and we are at 114 million. The Jets have 5m extra of salary cap space right now that could be rolled into next year so we absolutely have the room to cut sanchez, or even Holmes if neccessary.


    I dont want this to turn into a Tebow thread but he obviously must be in this convo as he will likely get some starts later this year. Woody is the owner, and this is a cash business--when Sanchez continues to struggle you ALL are lying to yourself if you think he wont get a shot.

    Also factor in the possibility of Rex and the staff being Fired. If they get canned a new staff may want the bad contracts gone like David Harris, Sanchez and Holmes.

    Bottom Line is with the salary cap and our relatively decent cap space in 2013, and GREAT in 2014 anything can happen. Sure the Jets may have to be a little creative but if Mark Sanchez is viewed to be hurting the team he will be benched sooner or later. If that happens there is no way hes still on the team next year wether via trade or June 1st cut.

  5. #45
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    This thread is absolutely tebow vs sanchez bc the best players should play if u adw trying to win... If we had a promising young qb on our bench who deserved a shot, id be fine benching sanchez... But we dont... We have a guy who is clearly not a pro qb...

    Id respect you more if you were calling for McElroy

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichmondVA_Jets View Post
    Ok... So heres ur argument...its ok for the Broncos defense to lead their team to the 2nd round of the playoffs despite horrible play from their qb - but when our defense leads us to two straight AFC Championships despite our qb play, that means our qb is a bum and we should swap him out for the broncos qb?

    I love the Jets - but i hate the vocal majority of our idiot fanbase
    In the playoff game against the Steelers Tim Tebow threw for 315 yards and two TD's. He ran for 50 yards and a TD. He totaled 365 yards, and 3 TD's with no turnovers. Maybe you didnt watch the game.

    If your talking about tebow starting for the Jets this year? Well our current QB is the most inaccurate in the league completing LESS THEN 50 % of his passes. Tebow could do the same while opening up the running game and turning the ball over significantly less the sanchez.

    Does anyone really think we traded for Tebow to be a punt protector and get 4 snaps a game lol? This guy will be starting later this year.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by KR View Post

    Anyone see the trend here? You dont win the Superbowl without a stud QB.
    Unfortunately, our idiot head coach thinks we can.

    For reasons known only to Rex Ryan and his Maker, we are attempting to follow the obtuse blueprint of the 1985 Chicago Bears defense and the 1958 Green Bay Packers offense and as long as we're building a team around a killer D and a ground and pound O the quarterback is a bit player, just the guy to not f-ck it up for the RB's and the D.

    What you're posting: "Mark Sanchez has to go."

    What you're saying: "Rex Ryan has to go."

    SAR I

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichmondVA_Jets View Post
    This thread is absolutely tebow vs sanchez bc the best players should play if u adw trying to win... If we had a promising young qb on our bench who deserved a shot, id be fine benching sanchez... But we dont... We have a guy who is clearly not a pro qb...

    Id respect you more if you were calling for McElroy
    It certainly could be McElroy. But Id be shocked if tebow doesnt get a shot at some point.

    The point of the story is Sanchez at times has been worse then backup QB's around the league. What are we losing by benching him?

    There is absolutely a chance we lose 4 out of our next 5 games. We face NE twice, At Seattle which are all games I expect us to be underdogs in. We are on the West coast against the rams, and face the dolphins who we only beat bc of missed FGS by carpenter.

    So if we lose 4 of 5, Sanchez continues to suck, and we are sitting there at 4-7 do you really think our owner is going to keep Tebow on the Bench/or even Mcelroy? NO. Sure Its tough to foresee right now but the dolphins, Seattle, and NE all can stop the run. We are only winning those games if Sanchez does it for us. I dont think he will.
    Last edited by KR; 10-15-2012 at 08:05 PM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by KR View Post
    In the playoff game against the Steelers Tim Tebow threw for 315 yards and two TD's. He ran for 50 yards and a TD. He totaled 365 yards, and 3 TD's with no turnovers. Maybe you didnt watch the game.

    If your talking about tebow starting for the Jets this year? Well our current QB is the most inaccurate in the league completing LESS THEN 50 % of his passes. Tebow could do the same while opening up the running game and turning the ball over significantly less the sanchez.

    Does anyone really think we traded for Tebow to be a punt protector and get 4 snaps a game lol? This guy will be starting later this year.
    The fact that you completely ignore the context of that playoff game is telling. It was in Denver, against a hurt Steelers defense, and Steeler offense with a hobbled Big Ben and no starting RB. It seems like you are the one who didnt watch the game.

    The fact that you also ignore Tebow's woeful performance the next week in Foxboro, the same place Sanchez won in the playoffs the year before, as he did in Indy is equally telling.

    Sanchez has played like the worst QB in the NFL this year, but to think Tebow could be the answer for this Jets team is mindblowing. The best chance for the Jets is for Sanchez to play like he did against Buffalo and Colts the rest of the way.
    Last edited by SMC; 10-15-2012 at 08:09 PM.

  10. #50
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    In that scenario - sitting at 4-7, i dont care who our qb is... Throw tebow in, because the objective at that point is to keep fans relatively interested and lose as many games as possible to get a good draft pick that we can spend on a guy better than Sanchez...

    I agree - Tebow is perfect for that job

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by KR View Post
    There is ALWAYS a way to move a player, or contract.



    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...wder-contract/

    We have two options.

    1) In 2013 Sanchez is guaranteed base salary of 8.25. If traded that 8.25 would go on to the next team while we would absorb the rest of the dead money(8.9m). Im pretty sure we can get a 7th rounder for him. That would cut our 2013 dead money from 17m to 8.9 or so.

    OR

    2) We cut him as a June first cut making it 8.6m in 2013/2014. That reduces the dead money in 2013 by half from 17.1 to 8.6.

    Obviously the trade makes a TON more sense, but either way he will be off the team next year.

    Looking at our cap we are absolutely fine for next year
    . Looking at Jasons cap page http://www.nyjetscap.com/salary13.html we are at 141. Take away that phony Jason Smith contract, Bart Scott, and Calvin Paces contracts and we are at 114 million. The Jets have 5m extra of salary cap space right now that could be rolled into next year so we absolutely have the room to cut sanchez, or even Holmes if neccessary.


    I dont want this to turn into a Tebow thread but he obviously must be in this convo as he will likely get some starts later this year. Woody is the owner, and this is a cash business--when Sanchez continues to struggle you ALL are lying to yourself if you think he wont get a shot.

    Also factor in the possibility of Rex and the staff being Fired. If they get canned a new staff may want the bad contracts gone like David Harris, Sanchez and Holmes.

    Bottom Line is with the salary cap and our relatively decent cap space in 2013, and GREAT in 2014 anything can happen. Sure the Jets may have to be a little creative but if Mark Sanchez is viewed to be hurting the team he will be benched sooner or later. If that happens there is no way hes still on the team next year wether via trade or June 1st cut.
    Your team is preparing to play a their #1 rival for first place in week 7 - and you are resigned to the idea that our qb will be benched and our head coach fired at the end of the season... And, oh yea by the way - this head coach/qb combo is has had more success than any other combo in franchise history over any 3-4 year period...

    You are the president of the SOJF Club

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichmondVA_Jets View Post
    Your team is preparing to play a their #1 rival for first place in week 7 - and you are resigned to the idea that our qb will be benched and our head coach fired at the end of the season... And, oh yea by the way - this head coach/qb combo is has had more success than any other combo in franchise history over any 3-4 year period...

    You are the president of the SOJF Club
    Friggin funny......

  13. #53
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    At 4-7, the gimmicky thing to do is start Tebow. The football thing to do is start McElroy to see what he has.

  14. #54
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    Southpark - im not saying that i think Rex/Sanchez is the best qb/coach combo in the league... But they win more than they lose... Thats a fact... U listen to some of our fans and were superbowl contenders one week and the worst team in football the next...

    People need to learn to relax - watch football and enjoy the games... At the end of the season, the record will say exactly what we were...

    Our bi-polar fanbase (and the media that covers us) just makes it less fun

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichmondVA_Jets View Post
    Southpark - im not saying that i think Rex/Sanchez is the best qb/coach combo in the league... But they win more than they lose... Thats a fact... U listen to some of our fans and were superbowl contenders one week and the worst team in football the next...

    People need to learn to relax - watch football and enjoy the games... At the end of the season, the record will say exactly what we were...

    Our bi-polar fanbase (and the media that covers us) just makes it less fun
    In fairness....after PITT, I was pretty negative. BUT..this board, save a few, has mellowed. use me as as an example, look at my sig. BUT...the team showed up and didn't quit. That's all I ask of this team.

    The venomous hate towards Mark, I can't explain. He is better than any QB we have had except maybe KOB, 1 year of Vinny and of course Namath.

    I believe REX and Tanny will get their shlt together and start drafting better as a result of this year. Unless Woody fukks it up.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetworks View Post
    Sooooo, when the Jets were good, Sanchez was horrible.


    When the Jets were bad, Sanchez was still horrible, but now it's his fault?


    Kthx.

  17. #57
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    ok. I get it. Sanchez sucks.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetworks View Post
    Sooooo, when the Jets were good, Sanchez was horrible.


    When the Jets were bad, Sanchez was still horrible, but now it's his fault?


    Kthx.



    Funny thing about that great defense and running game that brought Sanchez along for the ride as a ROOKIE and 2nd year QB.....

    In Crunch time in the AFCCG's the ride broke down, Defense was shredded in Indy after having been given a 17-6 lead......Mendenhall ran through our "top" defense like tissue paper against Pitt......Our "top" running game was nowhere to be found in either game.....

    The only one who showed up in the Jets 2 AFCCG appearances was the QB....

    37-63.....490 yards....4 TDS....1 INT....7.8 YPA and ratings of 102.9 and 93.3.
    If the ride had even come anywhere near the performance expected the Jets would have been in back to back SB's......Blame Sanchez all you want for his recent play but the reason we did not make it to the SB was the "ride" went off the road and crashed when it really mattered.....

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    At 4-7, the gimmicky thing to do is start Tebow. The football thing to do is start McElroy to see what he has.
    Last I checked, the Jets aren't 4-7.

    I guess this is a what-if scenario.


    I believe the Jets will be 4-4 at the bye and, if things break right in the 2nd half, end up at 9-7 which(considering how crappy the AFC Conference is this year) might just get us in as the wild card unbelievably so...


    Of course I'm way ahead of myself here.....Let's see what happens up in Foxboro.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    The fact that you completely ignore the context of that playoff game is telling. It was in Denver, against a hurt Steelers defense, and Steeler offense with a hobbled Big Ben and no starting RB. It seems like you are the one who didnt watch the game.

    The fact that you also ignore Tebow's woeful performance the next week in Foxboro, the same place Sanchez won in the playoffs the year before, as he did in Indy is equally telling.

    Sanchez has played like the worst QB in the NFL this year, but to think Tebow could be the answer for this Jets team is mindblowing. The best chance for the Jets is for Sanchez to play like he did against Buffalo and Colts the rest of the way.
    If your going to be a Sanchez Apologist, just come out and say it.

    Firstly I was not asked about the context, nor was I asked about the following weeks games so I have no idea what your talking about sanchez fanboy.

    Secondly Last year the Steelers were the number 1 defense in the league in scoring and yards. And the Steeler offense scored 23 points which was actually better then their average throughout the 2011 NFL season(20ppg).

    Try to make any excuse you want, but the fact is Tebow had over 300 yards and 3 TD's with no turnovers against the number 1 defense in football last year in that game. I did not post any inaccurate stats, or statements in my post.

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