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Thread: Interesting stat on defense and end of game

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Agree 100%. Especially against the Pats and Brady, if history has showed us anything, it is that Brady will eat anyone alive when being rushed by 3 guys and looking at a zone. Rex didnt have the balls to go win the game, just like running on first and second down after the fumble. Gutless football.
    Didn't you complain about him not trying to run down the clock in that game?

    How else are you supposed to assuredly run down the clock?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    The key IMO is that stat has little or nothing to with the offense or Sanchez.

    One wonders what our record would be if that Stat were say reversed
    I disagree. Rex's ego over the Jets having an elite D that he can rely on for the big stop at the end of the game affects the Jets play calling on O.

    Maybe if his ego wasn't so big they would have gone for the TD rather then settling for the FG last Sunday.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Of course it is for YOU. You started a moral victory thread seconds after the game. You have no expectations for this team, and are content watching the Jets lose a game they could have won.
    There shouldn't be any expectations for this team. Those went out the window when the best defensive player in the NFL was lost for the season. They were even hardened when our best WR was lost for the season.

    If they were at full strength and lost this game, I would be right there with you.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    Didn't you complain about him not trying to run down the clock in that game?

    How else are you supposed to assuredly run down the clock?
    Never said that. I said the sack taken by Sanchez was not that horrible because it forced the Pats to use a time out.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Never said that. I said the sack taken by Sanchez was not that horrible because it forced the Pats to use a time out.
    Well somebody complained about that. In my mind, Rex was put in a very difficult situation on that drive. He had to try and run down clock and waste their timeouts while trying to get a first down. Unless you have a great running game that can't be stopped, the two goals clash with each other.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    Well somebody complained about that. In my mind, Rex was put in a very difficult situation on that drive. He had to try and run down clock and waste their timeouts while trying to get a first down. Unless you have a great running game that can't be stopped, the two goals clash with each other.
    It wasnt a tough spot. The Jets got the ball with 2:01 on clock, the clock was going to stop after their first play no matter what. The time to throw the ball was on first down. They had the FG locked up already, plus the Jets were 9-14 for 120 yards throwing on first down to that point. The Pats had been over playing the run on first down all game, they were begging the Jets to throw on first down. Gutless move by not trying to score a TD there.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    There shouldn't be any expectations for this team. Those went out the window when the best defensive player in the NFL was lost for the season. They were even hardened when our best WR was lost for the season.

    If they were at full strength and lost this game, I would be right there with you.
    That's a bunch of crap. Every team has to deal with injuries. The Pats played without both their starting guards and both their starting safeties.

    Can you imagine if the Jets played without Slauson, Moore, Landry and Bell?

    Injuries are a fact of life in the NFL. No excuses.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Queens Jet Fan View Post
    That's a bunch of crap. Every team has to deal with injuries. The Pats played without both their starting guards and both their starting safeties.

    Can you imagine if the Jets played without Slauson, Moore, Landry and Bell?

    Injuries are a fact of life in the NFL. No excuses.
    I'm not saying they aren't. It depends on who on each team gets injured. You can be lucky with injuries and have them happen to minor or replaceable players. Not this year for the Jets.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    It wasnt a tough spot. The Jets got the ball with 2:01 on clock, the clock was going to stop after their first play no matter what. The time to throw the ball was on first down. They had the FG locked up already, plus the Jets were 9-14 for 120 yards throwing on first down to that point. The Pats had been over playing the run on first down all game, they were begging the Jets to throw on first down. Gutless move by not trying to score a TD there.
    I completely agree with you on this!
    Pats D is SURPRISED with the Turnover, they have to run on the field.
    Jets have been tearing them a new one on 1st down throws the whole 2nd half, 2:01 on the clock!
    I can't believe that the 1st thing to come into Tony & Rex head wasn't "WE NEED TO GET A 1st DOWN!" because that 1 second is meaningless to us & means EVERYTHING TO THEM!
    I was with a room full of Pats fans & I'm like "throw the ball".

    How many games have you seen similar time wise where you DON"T want to throw the ball because you don't want to stop the clock?
    This situation was the total opposite, it was TAILOR MADE for playaction pass on 1st down.
    I hate to say it but Rex can say all he wants that they didn't play to lose & maybe in their minds thats true but the real truth is that in all the excitement recovering the fumble, no one realized immediately (or used their head), that it was like a free shot at taking a chance with the pass without having an effect on the clock & whether it stopped or not.
    It was set up perfectly!
    Now if they had 2:00 warning & they threw it you can always 2nd guess it but with 2:01, throwing was the play.
    Last edited by jetster; 10-23-2012 at 02:59 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    I'm not saying they aren't. It depends on who on each team gets injured. You can be lucky with injuries and have them happen to minor or replaceable players. Not this year for the Jets.
    Nor for the Pats. A big part of their pass D problems are the injuries to the safeties, and I think a big part of the reason they ran for less then their yearly average last Sunday was the injuries to their guards.

    We have no excuses for last Sunday. The win was there for the taking and we gave the Pats a gift.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    No matter the thread you try and bring up this point despite the Jets having one of the weaker set of offfensive skill players in the entire NFL!!!
    So that puts it all on a Defense?
    Offense will get better every week, couple of years Jets will be in the thick of things.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Queens Jet Fan View Post
    I disagree. Rex's ego over the Jets having an elite D that he can rely on for the big stop at the end of the game affects the Jets play calling on O.

    Maybe if his ego wasn't so big they would have gone for the TD rather then settling for the FG last Sunday.
    I agree. I actually think settling for that FG wasn't just about being worried Sanchez would turn the ball over. I believe Rex also thought a FG lead with less than 2 minutes left would be enough to win...and his D would shut down Brady on the final drive.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    It's called not having a closer. With no DE or OLB who can pressure the QB, the Jets can not close out an opponent in desperation time. I remember in John Abraham's rookie season he would be brought out in the 4th quarter and close out games by putting tremendous pressure on the QB. It's a gift. Either you've got it, or you don't. No one on the Jets has it.
    Well, all those teams have so called closer - Ware (Dallas), Orakpo (Washington) and I dont even have to start with all those edge rushers on the Giants. While I generally agree that this defense needs an athletic edge rusher in the worst way, the problem late in games is a different one. Rex always goes into prevent mode - rushing only three players and then playing coverage with the rest. He had the same problem in Baltimore. Even if you have DeMarcus Ware, what is he gonna do if he is one of three rushers against six protecting the quarterback...

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache 51 View Post
    So that puts it all on a Defense?
    Offense will get better every week, couple of years Jets will be in the thick of things.
    Its not ALL on the defense, but they share as much of the blame for the loss as any unit does for Sunday's loss.

  15. #55
    Here is the whole article I would have put link the the WSJ requires users to pay to see the content

    Rex Ryan has proven to be a defensive maestro during his Jets tenure—that is, until his defense is trying to close out a game in the final minutes.

    Since Ryan was hired in 2009, the Jets have allowed opponents to score on 40% of drives when they have the ball trailing by one score in the final three minutes—including Sunday's crushing overtime loss in Foxborough against the Patriots. The NFL average is 30%. And only three defenses have fared worse in these situations: Dallas (52.9%), Washington (42.1%) and the Giants (42.1%).

    Unlike their MetLife Stadium co-tenants, however, the Jets do not have the luxury of having Captain Comeback, Eli Manning, pulling games back out of the fire after the defense burns the lead, as he did again on Sunday. So the Jets lost for the fifth time in 18 tries under Ryan despite a late lead.

    Ryan has tried various defensive approaches. On Sunday, he replaced blitzers with more men in coverage, a departure from his typically more aggressive, blitz-oriented approach. New England's Tom Brady used the extra time he was given to calmly complete three quick passes for 47 yards, setting up the 43-yard, game-tying field goal that sent the game into overtime.

    What's most frustrating is that the Jets held Brady in check most of the day, limiting him to just 164 passing yards (on 29 attempts) in the first 58-plus minutes. But that's nothing new for this defense. Ryan's Jets are second best since 2009 in defensive efficiency (yards per play) and fifth best in preventing points. And in all other scenarios besides holding a late lead, they've allowed the opponent to score on just 26.1% of possessions (171 of 656). So clearly, the Jets save their worst moments on defense only for when it matters most.

  16. #56
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    when you play a soft D inside the last 2 minutes, ya no **** they are going to move down the field quick.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    It's called not having a closer. With no DE or OLB who can pressure the QB, the Jets can not close out an opponent in desperation time. I remember in John Abraham's rookie season he would be brought out in the 4th quarter and close out games by putting tremendous pressure on the QB. It's a gift. Either you've got it, or you don't. No one on the Jets has it.
    I agree with not having a pass rush, but how did you come to that conclusion from the data set?

    The other three teams worse than us have had DWare, JPP/Osi/Tuck, and Orakpo...

    I think this is more about Rex playing a Mangini style defense with the game on the line, more than its about lack of a true pass rusher.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by King P View Post
    This is the problem with our D. I know alot of people say our D is fine and we don't need to improve it and we blame everything on our terrible offense/ But if our defense is so elite why can't we get the big stop when it counts? You can be great for 45 minutes, but if you can't shut them down in the final drive, then there's a problem. We need closers.

    And this isn't something new. This is a reoccuring theme. And There are many instances I can remember where our D failed us when it matter.

    09 vs. Jacksonville - Our D allowed the Jags to drive down the field in the finals minutes and sit on the clock to kick a game winning FG.

    09 vs. Atlanta - This one was very memorable for me. We had a lead the whole game. Our defense was dominating the Falcons for the 48 minutes. Then in the final 2 minutes we allow Matt Ryan to drive down the field for the game winning touchdown.

    11 vs. Denver - We allowed a Denver offense lead by Tim Tebow to drive 95 yards down the field and score a touchdown to win the game.

    12 vs. Miami - Yes we won that game. But that doesn't take away the fact that we allowed Miami to drive down the field at will in the closing minutes and in overtime. Had Dan Carpenter made that FG, our season would def be alot worse then it already is.

    And let's not forget about our 2 playoff losses where it was the defense (not the offense) that failed us and allowed Indy & Pittsburgh to drive down the field at will. There are probably some other examples as well that I'm forgetting.

    Face it; as great as we think our D is, if you can't stop your opponent when it counts then you aren't that great.
    I just can't get behind the specific examples you brought up, maybe the Jacksonville game, that's about it. The D was horribly betrayed by the offense in the other 3 games, mostly due to a turnover-prone ineffective QB. Any D caves by the end when the offense can't score all game and keeps turning it over. Not to mention the 2012 Miami game was actually won by the defense due to Landry's pick-6.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    And yet I see a lot of coaches do it besides Rex. Its called the prevent defense.
    Yup, and just because others are stupid does not mean we should be stupid.

    I know that to some it's okay for the jets to have dumb play calling or bad QB's just because other teams have. I expect a 'defensive genius' to be better than the average schlep.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    I just can't get behind the specific examples you brought up, maybe the Jacksonville game, that's about it. The D was horribly betrayed by the offense in the other 3 games, mostly due to a turnover-prone ineffective QB. Any D caves by the end when the offense can't score all game and keeps turning it over. Not to mention the 2012 Miami game was actually won by the defense due to Landry's pick-6.
    His points were valid. If you want a defense to be considered good to great rather than average you need to make the stops when the chips are down. The Jets had no answer at all in those games.

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