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Thread: Same Sex Marriage

  1. #41
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    The bible is crap.


    It's the same piece of **** book that says you should make your daughter marry her rapist.

    Follow it letter by letter, religious people. Remember, your god told Lots daughter to have sex with their father in a cave after drinking a bunch if wine.


    Bible! Yah!


    Sent from my Double-Wide using Semaphore...

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    I don't get that. It seems like that argument is made because marriage was defined a certain way when someone got married, they feel like it can't be opened up or redefined (not saying this is your stance, but it seems to be the argument I see most closely associated with the "they can have union, but it can't be called marriage"). I mean, we've changed the way we define "man" in the constitution, haven't we?. I can't help but feel that those that feel this way think that it 'cheapens' what it means to be married, as if gay people are less worthy, or less 'people' than them. Yet many of these same people know someone who is gay, and have no problem with them as people. It really is so similar to racism in a lot of ways ("well, not Billy, he's different, he's not like the rest of them").
    I do not think the definition of "man" ever specified race. However, it would be interesting to see a dictionary from 1776, maybe it did. To my knowledge, the definition of marriage has never specified race, it specifies gender, one of each gender. We have race and gender equality laws. Do gays need there own set of equality laws or can we incorporate them into the race and gender laws? You are either a man or woman, and everyone has a race. Based on that, everyone should be treated equally. But does equality mean we change the definition of a word? Or can we just have a new word so long as they are treated equally?

    Maybe I am looking at this too technically b.c I really do not have an emotional attachment to the topic. I am not even married. One can say this country discriminates against single people. Why is there a tax benefit for being married?

    With that, I lay down my sword. I am tired of playing devil's advocate.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 10-24-2012 at 10:21 PM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    If you step away from your religious view, then it's not really your religious view, is it?

    If you believe something is "wrong", then you don't vote for it. If it becomes law anyway, so be it, but that doesn't mean you have to help it along the way (assuming it truly is something you don't agree with) . . .
    Not at all. I would never vote for a law banning paganism, for example, because regardless of my view on the merits of paganism, that's not the way america works.

    Would you vote to repeal the first amendment and impose christianity as g the state religion?

  4. #44
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    Like Obama, my views on same sex marriage are evolving. I'm not there yet, though, because I don't have an idiot vice-president forcing my hand.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard View Post
    Like Obama, my views on same sex marriage are evolving. I'm not there yet, though, because I don't have an idiot vice-president forcing my hand.
    Obama had politics in his way, what's your excuse?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    ......because regardless of my view on the merits of paganism...............
    You have an opinion on the merits of Paganism?

    Seriosuly my friend, that you HAVE to share.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Amendment View Post
    Obama had politics in his way, what's your excuse?
    How can you be sure it was only politics holding him back?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard View Post
    How can you be sure it was only politics holding him back?
    Because he supported gay marriage before he was a national candidate.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Amendment View Post
    Obama had politics in his way, what's your excuse?
    Politics is what made him 'change his mind'... lol

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Amendment View Post
    Because he supported gay marriage before he was a national candidate.
    Could have just been politics then too.

    Anyway, my "excuse" is that it's a shame the civil union laws never achieved what they were intended to do. I don't consider marriage as just a piece of paper you get from a judge, I still consider it a Holy Sacrament.

  11. #51
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    I freely admit the President has been pretty damn cowardice on this issue. No doubt about that.
    Last edited by 21st Amendment; 10-24-2012 at 11:18 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard View Post
    Could have just been politics then too.

    Anyway, my "excuse" is that it's a shame the civil union laws never achieved what they were intended to do. I don't consider marriage as just a piece of paper you get from a judge, I still consider it a Holy Sacrament.
    I'm sure many gay people believe that too.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Amendment View Post
    I freely admit the President has been pretty damn cowardice on this issue. No doubt about that.
    with that said, the President supported gay marriage well before he ever came out and voiced his opinion on it. His administration has supported gay couples from the get go, they greased the wheels against DOMA for example. And that matters far more than the simple gesture.
    Last edited by 21st Amendment; 10-24-2012 at 11:24 PM.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard View Post
    I don't consider marriage as just a piece of paper you get from a judge, I still consider it a Holy Sacrament.
    So you'd support a legal limitation that the non-faithful (who cannot partake of the Sacriments) should be legally banned from marriage then too, right?


  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Amendment View Post
    I'm sure many gay people believe that too.
    Therein lies the problem. The Church still considers homosexuality a sin. I personally don't, because like life, faith isn't black & white. It's complicated, and influenced by society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    So you'd support a legal limitation that the non-faithful (who cannot partake of the Sacriments) should be legally banned from marriage then too, right?

    That legal limitation already exists. Whether I support it or not is irrelevant. The crux of the issue is allowing all of the same legal rights to gay couples via nontraditional means -- like how I said it's a shame civil union laws never achieved what they were intended to achieve.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Amendment View Post
    with that said, the President supported gay marriage well before he ever came out and voiced his opinion on it. His administration has supported gay couples from the get go, they greased the wheels against DOMA for example. And that matters far more than the simple gesture.
    It also took a ****ing eternity to roll back DADT (which I was against, incidentally).

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard View Post
    It also took a ****ing eternity to roll back DADT (which I was against, incidentally).
    Nothing comes easy in this climate, the President wanted to build support within the military, and he got it with Gates and Mullen.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard View Post
    Therein lies the problem. The Church still considers homosexuality a sin. I personally don't, because like life, faith isn't black & white. It's complicated, and influenced by society.
    The Church believes a lot of things. The best thing about modern Christianity (compared to Muslim world) they don't take the crazy sh-t their church says or thinks seriously.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Amendment View Post
    Nothing comes easy in this climate, the President also wanted to build support within the military, and he got it with Gates and Mullen.
    That's a copout. For the first two years of his administration the Democrats controlled the House and the Senate, and the only thing he was able to pass was a gutted healthcare law that was a hollow shell of what he really wanted.

    That's my biggest gripe with Obama -- his lack of leadership skills, and his inability to not only reach across the aisle but also deal with ego-driven members of his own party is frustrating, to say the least. He doesn't act; he reacts. The Benghazi debacle was the most recent example of that.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Amendment View Post
    "The Church" believes a lot of things. The best thing about modern Christianity (compared to Muslim world) they don't take the crazy sh-t their church says seriously.
    The only modern thing about Catholicism is that they changed the responses during mass.

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