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Thread: Couple of clear concise points about Rex and the team.

  1. #1
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    Couple of clear concise points about Rex and the team.

    I've waited to speak after this disaster week.

    1. People say that Rex has had all bad drafts. I disagree. I think this year's draft class has so far been very productive. Even Quinton Coples, who was compared to Gholston, already has more sacks than Gholston had in his whole career.

    2. People say that Rex inherited a talented team that Mangini put together. I won't deny that, but to put all of the credit on Mangini is stupid. Mangini went 4-12 with this same team, (where the Gholston pick came in). Plus he then went to the Browns and did nothing with them so stop putting Mangini on a pedestal.

    3. I think this is the last year for Sanchez in New York. The Jets have tried everything to get him to step up his game and he hasn't done it. The gave him a big contract and they tried to arouse his competitive spirit with Tebow. Again, Sanchez was the right pick at the time given the alternatives (Freeman and Clemens), but it's time to let him go.

    4. All chances of the Jets being a contender this year ended with Darrelle Revis being injured in Miami. That doesn't mean I don't want them to win games, but facts are facts. I was disgusted that they got rolled over by Miami, but I am not going to act like this derailed a contending season.

    5. If one believes in the SOJ mystique, this might add to the misery. The Jets have not made a horrible draft pick in the last few years BASED ON THE YEAR'S BOARD. The problem is that they have either made their move up or had a high pick in the wrong year. The Gholston draft was a crappy one and as noted before, the Sanchez draft was very light on QBs.

    6. Until either the team quits on Rex or he was a disastrous year, I would not fire him. I think this year's draft has signaled a new youth movement on this defense. If we can draft the right couple of parts next year and look for a solid QB, I think we will be OK.

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    All chances of the Jets being a contender this year ended with Darrelle Revis being injured in Miami.
    We would have the same record if revis is out there. Stop it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe W. Namath View Post
    We would have the same record if revis is out there. Stop it.
    Wrong.

    You don't take away the best defensive player in the NFL without it having some effect. For example, I think we beat New England if Revis is on the team that week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    For example, I think we beat New England if Revis is on the team that week.
    What play or INT to win the game would Revis have made that Cromartie didn't?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    What play or INT to win the game would Revis have made that Cromartie didn't?
    I think the one in the 4th quarter. I don't remember the specific time but Cromartie dropped a key INT in that quarter. I remember clearly all of us here getting angry at it.

    And of course if Santonio Holmes was playing, he probably catches the easy pass that Stephen Hill drops at the end of the 4th quarter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    I've waited to speak after this disaster week.

    1. People say that Rex has had all bad drafts. I disagree. I think this year's draft class has so far been very productive. Even Quinton Coples, who was compared to Gholston, already has more sacks than Gholston had in his whole career.
    True

    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    I2. People say that Rex inherited a talented team that Mangini put together. I won't deny that, but to put all of the credit on Mangini is stupid. Mangini went 4-12 with this same team, (where the Gholston pick came in). Plus he then went to the Browns and did nothing with them so stop putting Mangini on a pedestal.
    True

    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    I3. I think this is the last year for Sanchez in New York. The Jets have tried everything to get him to step up his game and he hasn't done it. The gave him a big contract and they tried to arouse his competitive spirit with Tebow. Again, Sanchez was the right pick at the time given the alternatives (Freeman and Clemens), but it's time to let him go.
    False

    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    I4. All chances of the Jets being a contender this year ended with Darrelle Revis being injured in Miami. That doesn't mean I don't want them to win games, but facts are facts. I was disgusted that they got rolled over by Miami, but I am not going to act like this derailed a contending season.
    False

    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    I5. If one believes in the SOJ mystique, this might add to the misery. The Jets have not made a horrible draft pick in the last few years BASED ON THE YEAR'S BOARD. The problem is that they have either made their move up or had a high pick in the wrong year. The Gholston draft was a crappy one and as noted before, the Sanchez draft was very light on QBs.
    True

    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    I6. Until either the team quits on Rex or he was a disastrous year, I would not fire him. I think this year's draft has signaled a new youth movement on this defense. If we can draft the right couple of parts next year and look for a solid QB, I think we will be OK.
    True

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    I've waited to speak after this disaster week.

    1. People say that Rex has had all bad drafts. I disagree. I think this year's draft class has so far been very productive. Even Quinton Coples, who was compared to Gholston, already has more sacks than Gholston had in his whole career.

    2. People say that Rex inherited a talented team that Mangini put together. I won't deny that, but to put all of the credit on Mangini is stupid. Mangini went 4-12 with this same team, (where the Gholston pick came in). Plus he then went to the Browns and did nothing with them so stop putting Mangini on a pedestal.

    3. I think this is the last year for Sanchez in New York. The Jets have tried everything to get him to step up his game and he hasn't done it. The gave him a big contract and they tried to arouse his competitive spirit with Tebow. Again, Sanchez was the right pick at the time given the alternatives (Freeman and Clemens), but it's time to let him go.

    4. All chances of the Jets being a contender this year ended with Darrelle Revis being injured in Miami. That doesn't mean I don't want them to win games, but facts are facts. I was disgusted that they got rolled over by Miami, but I am not going to act like this derailed a contending season.

    5. If one believes in the SOJ mystique, this might add to the misery. The Jets have not made a horrible draft pick in the last few years BASED ON THE YEAR'S BOARD. The problem is that they have either made their move up or had a high pick in the wrong year. The Gholston draft was a crappy one and as noted before, the Sanchez draft was very light on QBs.

    6. Until either the team quits on Rex or he was a disastrous year, I would not fire him. I think this year's draft has signaled a new youth movement on this defense. If we can draft the right couple of parts next year and look for a solid QB, I think we will be OK.
    You are delusional. Wow, the number 16th draft choice is a budding super star! Every good football team deals with its major injuries---Revis is not a QB, he is a cornerback for God's sake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rextilleon View Post
    You are delusional. Wow, the number 16th draft choice is a budding super star! Every good football team deals with its major injuries---Revis is not a QB, he is a cornerback for God's sake.
    He's the best defensive player in the NFL. He was voted in the top ten of Best NFL players presently playing.

    You're right. Every team deals with injuries. The question is who do the injuries happen to. Think about that.

    What does being a 16th draft choice have to do with anything?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    I think the one in the 4th quarter. I don't remember the specific time but Cromartie dropped a key INT in that quarter. I remember clearly all of us here getting angry at it.

    And of course if Santonio Holmes was playing, he probably catches the easy pass that Stephen Hill drops at the end of the 4th quarter
    Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda.

    If Rodney knocks the ball off Tyree's helmet and Welker holds onto the catch, the Pats are 5-0 in Super Bowls in the last 10 years.

    It is what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda.

    If Rodney knocks the ball off Tyree's helmet and Welker holds onto the catch, the Pats are 5-0 in Super Bowls in the last 10 years.

    It is what it is.
    Well you asked me the question, I gave you an answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    He's the best defensive player in the NFL. He was voted in the top ten of Best NFL players presently playing.

    You're right. Every team deals with injuries. The question is who do the injuries happen to. Think about that.

    What does being a 16th draft choice have to do with anything?
    Because that pick could have been spent on a skilled offensive player. Because he drafted a defensive lineman last year. Because he needed young linebackers more then he needed another DL. Because Sanchez number to guy is Shillens

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    Quote Originally Posted by rextilleon View Post
    Because that pick could have been spent on a skilled offensive player. Because he drafted a defensive lineman last year. Because he needed young linebackers more then he needed another DL. Because Sanchez number to guy is Shillens
    And he will get young linebackers this year when Scott and Pace go. He already got Demario Davis, who everyone believes is a great pick.

    They drafted the WR in the second round and he has done okay. He's tied for 2nd overall with Kendall Wright in Rec. TDs by a rookie with 3. He drops a lot of passes, but that comes with the territory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    I've waited to speak after this disaster week.

    1. People say that Rex has had all bad drafts. I disagree. I think this year's draft class has so far been very productive. Even Quinton Coples, who was compared to Gholston, already has more sacks than Gholston had in his whole career.

    2. People say that Rex inherited a talented team that Mangini put together. I won't deny that, but to put all of the credit on Mangini is stupid. Mangini went 4-12 with this same team, (where the Gholston pick came in). Plus he then went to the Browns and did nothing with them so stop putting Mangini on a pedestal.

    3. I think this is the last year for Sanchez in New York. The Jets have tried everything to get him to step up his game and he hasn't done it. The gave him a big contract and they tried to arouse his competitive spirit with Tebow. Again, Sanchez was the right pick at the time given the alternatives (Freeman and Clemens), but it's time to let him go.

    4. All chances of the Jets being a contender this year ended with Darrelle Revis being injured in Miami. That doesn't mean I don't want them to win games, but facts are facts. I was disgusted that they got rolled over by Miami, but I am not going to act like this derailed a contending season.

    5. If one believes in the SOJ mystique, this might add to the misery. The Jets have not made a horrible draft pick in the last few years BASED ON THE YEAR'S BOARD. The problem is that they have either made their move up or had a high pick in the wrong year. The Gholston draft was a crappy one and as noted before, the Sanchez draft was very light on QBs.

    6. Until either the team quits on Rex or he was a disastrous year, I would not fire him. I think this year's draft has signaled a new youth movement on this defense. If we can draft the right couple of parts next year and look for a solid QB, I think we will be OK.
    1. He has more than zero sacks! Impressive! Actually I like Coples and Wilkerson, they are just miss used when the Jets are in a 3-4 control the line 1st type of game plan.

    2. Mangini had good points and bad points, he deserved to be fire when he gagged the playoffs away in the Favre year by being too conservative on D. Rex gagged the NE game away by doing the same thing.

    3. Drafting a QB was totally the wrong thing to do for the Jets at the time considering their strengths and how they decided to approach things. They should have drafted A QB a bit later and went out and got a semi competent game manager vet. The cost of moving up was a value for sure but taking a Qb then when you are going to have to live with a rookie while you are strong elsewhere was a mistake.

    4. No, not even close. Cromartie has stepped up big time and we have not noticed a horrible drop in pass defense even with Kyle Wilson being so so. It's a horribly feeble excuse to say that the loss of Revis has killed the team.

    5. ? Eh? I don't get your point. Every team drafts in the same draft, a sin that the Jets are paying for is trading away half of their picks and having very poor org depth.

    6. The only way I would want Rex fired is if he sticks with Sanchez to the bitter end. That would signal that he would rather lose than be wrong about a player. He has some very good qualities and I do not want him gone but the Jets have to bring in a new, veteran, hard ass GM who will stand up to rex, tell him to just fing coach and stay away from player personnel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    1. He has more than zero sacks! Impressive! Actually I like Coples and Wilkerson, they are just miss used when the Jets are in a 3-4 control the line 1st type of game plan.

    2. Mangini had good points and bad points, he deserved to be fire when he gagged the playoffs away in the Favre year by being too conservative on D. Rex gagged the NE game away by doing the same thing.

    3. Drafting a QB was totally the wrong thing to do for the Jets at the time considering their strengths and how they decided to approach things. They should have drafted A QB a bit later and went out and got a semi competent game manager vet. The cost of moving up was a value for sure but taking a Qb then when you are going to have to live with a rookie while you are strong elsewhere was a mistake.

    4. No, not even close. Cromartie has stepped up big time and we have not noticed a horrible drop in pass defense even with Kyle Wilson being so so. It's a horribly feeble excuse to say that the loss of Revis has killed the team.

    5. ? Eh? I don't get your point. Every team drafts in the same draft, a sin that the Jets are paying for is trading away half of their picks and having very poor org depth.

    6. The only way I would want Rex fired is if he sticks with Sanchez to the bitter end. That would signal that he would rather lose than be wrong about a player. He has some very good qualities and I do not want him gone but the Jets have to bring in a new, veteran, hard ass GM who will stand up to rex, tell him to just fing coach and stay away from player personnel.
    Agree 100%. Give him a year audition with a new GM. I think we might like what we see. New GM should have greater authority in the draft and more input into the offensive side of the football from a staff strategy perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    I've waited to speak after this disaster week.

    1. People say that Rex has had all bad drafts. I disagree. I think this year's draft class has so far been very productive. Even Quinton Coples, who was compared to Gholston, already has more sacks than Gholston had in his whole career.
    It's impossible to deny our poor drafts since Rex took over are a big part of the reason we're not a good team right now. Once we began to trade away picks hitting on the ones we have becomes much more important.

    The 2009 draft was a disaster. Sanchez, Green, and Slauson, those were our only picks. A massive bust, an overdrafted below average RB, and a solid pick in the sixth round for a good depth OL.

    The 2010 draft might have been worse. Kyle Wilson was a bust in the first round. He's a serviceable nickleback at best. Vlad Duccasse has been a complete disaster in the second round -- if it weren't for Gholston he'd be Tanny's worst pick ever, easily. Joe McKnight has been a non-factor. John Conner was a waste.

    2011 and 2012 we bounced back a little, but I'm still waiting for the advancement that Mo Wilkerson was supposed to have this year. Between Coples, Ellis, and Wilkerson, you simply CANNOT spend three top picks on defensive lineman and get the kind of production out of them we've gotten. We still have zero pass rush.

    Overall Coples, Hill, the rest of 2012 is looking like it will work out, but we whiffed so badly on 09-10 that it's just killing us.

    2. People say that Rex inherited a talented team that Mangini put together. I won't deny that, but to put all of the credit on Mangini is stupid. Mangini went 4-12 with this same team, (where the Gholston pick came in). Plus he then went to the Browns and did nothing with them so stop putting Mangini on a pedestal.
    Mangini didn't go 4-12 with this same team. The 2007 Jets and 2012 Jets are almost entirely different.

    I'm not saying Mangini deserves ALL the credit, but it's just a fact that our talent acquisition under him was better than under Rex.

    Mangini: Brick, Mangold, Revis, Harris, Gholston (bust), Keller, Leon Washington, Brad Smith, Eric Smith, Favre, Calvin Pace, Kris Jenkins, Damien Woody, Alan Faneca, Thomas Jones, Tony Richardson

    Rex: Sanchez, Greene, Slauson, Kyle Wilson, Vlad Duccasse, John Conner, McKnight, Powell, Wilkerson, Ellis, Coples, Hill, Leonahrd, Bart Scott, Tomlinson, Chazz Schillens, Jason Taylor...

    3. I think this is the last year for Sanchez in New York. The Jets have tried everything to get him to step up his game and he hasn't done it. The gave him a big contract and they tried to arouse his competitive spirit with Tebow. Again, Sanchez was the right pick at the time given the alternatives (Freeman and Clemens), but it's time to let him go.
    Obviously drafting him was a mistake and he's not going to be our starter much longer, but he'll be on the roster in 2013. His contract makes him untradable and uncuttable.

    4. All chances of the Jets being a contender this year ended with Darrelle Revis being injured in Miami. That doesn't mean I don't want them to win games, but facts are facts. I was disgusted that they got rolled over by Miami, but I am not going to act like this derailed a contending season.
    Disagree. Revis has nothing to do with our pitiful offense or run defense. The area where Revis is most important (pass defense) is still the strength of the team. This team sucks even with Revis. Our non-impact high picks on the D-line, cement shoe linebackers, awful QB play and lack of playmakers is what's killing this team, not a lack of Revis.

    5. If one believes in the SOJ mystique, this might add to the misery. The Jets have not made a horrible draft pick in the last few years BASED ON THE YEAR'S BOARD. The problem is that they have either made their move up or had a high pick in the wrong year. The Gholston draft was a crappy one and as noted before, the Sanchez draft was very light on QBs.
    What are you talking about? They have multi-million dollar scouting departments. If you whiff on Gholston or Sanchez, that's still your fault. These guys aren't drafting who Mel Kiper tells them to, this is a billion dollar industry.

    6. Until either the team quits on Rex or he was a disastrous year, I would not fire him. I think this year's draft has signaled a new youth movement on this defense. If we can draft the right couple of parts next year and look for a solid QB, I think we will be OK.
    This is in the process of happening, in case you missed the memo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    It's impossible to deny our poor drafts since Rex took over are a big part of the reason we're not a good team right now. Once we began to trade away picks hitting on the ones we have becomes much more important.

    The 2009 draft was a disaster. Sanchez, Green, and Slauson, those were our only picks. A massive bust, an overdrafted below average RB, and a solid pick in the sixth round for a good depth OL.

    The 2010 draft might have been worse. Kyle Wilson was a bust in the first round. He's a serviceable nickleback at best. Vlad Duccasse has been a complete disaster in the second round -- if it weren't for Gholston he'd be Tanny's worst pick ever, easily. Joe McKnight has been a non-factor. John Conner was a waste.

    2011 and 2012 we bounced back a little, but I'm still waiting for the advancement that Mo Wilkerson was supposed to have this year. Between Coples, Ellis, and Wilkerson, you simply CANNOT spend three top picks on defensive lineman and get the kind of production out of them we've gotten. We still have zero pass rush.

    Overall Coples, Hill, the rest of 2012 is looking like it will work out, but we whiffed so badly on 09-10 that it's just killing us.



    Mangini didn't go 4-12 with this same team. The 2007 Jets and 2012 Jets are almost entirely different.

    I'm not saying Mangini deserves ALL the credit, but it's just a fact that our talent acquisition under him was better than under Rex.

    Mangini: Brick, Mangold, Revis, Harris, Gholston (bust), Keller, Leon Washington, Brad Smith, Eric Smith, Favre, Calvin Pace, Kris Jenkins, Damien Woody, Alan Faneca, Thomas Jones, Tony Richardson

    Rex: Sanchez, Greene, Slauson, Kyle Wilson, Vlad Duccasse, John Conner, McKnight, Powell, Wilkerson, Ellis, Coples, Hill, Leonahrd, Bart Scott, Tomlinson, Chazz Schillens, Jason Taylor...



    Obviously drafting him was a mistake and he's not going to be our starter much longer, but he'll be on the roster in 2013. His contract makes him untradable and uncuttable.



    Disagree. Revis has nothing to do with our pitiful offense or run defense. The area where Revis is most important (pass defense) is still the strength of the team. This team sucks even with Revis. Our non-impact high picks on the D-line, cement shoe linebackers, awful QB play and lack of playmakers is what's killing this team, not a lack of Revis.



    What are you talking about? They have multi-million dollar scouting departments. If you whiff on Gholston or Sanchez, that's still your fault. These guys aren't drafting who Mel Kiper tells them to, this is a billion dollar industry.



    This is in the process of happening, in case you missed the memo.
    And when I say disastrous year, I don't mean 8-8 or 7-9.

    And I don't think drafting Sanchez was a mistake, looking at the alternatives. (Kellen Clemens)

    And I won't say that McKnight has been a no factor. I think he led the NFL in kickoff return yardage last year and was an All-Pro selection. He's essentially become Leon Washington.
    Last edited by Eckesg1; 11-01-2012 at 04:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Mangini didn't go 4-12 with this same team. The 2007 Jets and 2012 Jets are almost entirely different.

    I'm not saying Mangini deserves ALL the credit, but it's just a fact that our talent acquisition under him was better than under Rex.

    Mangini: Brick, Mangold, Revis, Harris, Gholston (bust), Keller, Leon Washington, Brad Smith, Eric Smith, Favre, Calvin Pace, Kris Jenkins, Damien Woody, Alan Faneca, Thomas Jones, Tony Richardson

    Rex: Sanchez, Greene, Slauson, Kyle Wilson, Vlad Duccasse, John Conner, McKnight, Powell, Wilkerson, Ellis, Coples, Hill, Leonahrd, Bart Scott, Tomlinson, Chazz Schillens, Jason Taylor...
    Eric Smith and Schlegel (who you didn't mention as a bust) were fails given their draft position. Frankly Smith didn't even have marginal use until Rex found something for him to do. Jenkins could be viewed as a bus given his injuries etc. Favre was a one and done as well that cost us a draft pick. Faneca produced one to two seasons of good play. Even in 2009 his pass blocking was pretty bad. Keller is a disappointment given his draft position. A lot of the guys we complain about now were Mangini pick ups. This isn't to say Rex has been great, I would say he has been average to below average. But I'd like to see a change at GM before I write the epitaph on Rex's tenure as Jets HC.

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    how about the near int that cromartie had against your girlie boy brady. if that ball is intercepted the whole outcome could have changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    What play or INT to win the game would Revis have made that Cromartie didn't?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post

    3. I think this is the last year for Sanchez in New York. The Jets have tried everything to get him to step up his game and he hasn't done it. The gave him a big contract and they tried to arouse his competitive spirit with Tebow. Again, Sanchez was the right pick at the time given the alternatives (Freeman and Clemens), but it's time to let him go.
    I disagree with this. First, Sanchez cannot be traded or cut most likely and will be on the roster next season. Nobody wants to trade for him and the cap hit for cutting him is worse than just keeping him. Whether he starts remains to be seen, I hope not. Second, I don't see how you can say he was the right pick at the time. Jury is very much out on Freeman v. Sanchez, I see Freeman having himself a nice season and he clearly outplayed Mark in the regular season in 2010 as well. Sanchez was drafted by a much better team and had opportunities to play in playoff games because of that (which he did take advantage of). Clemens ended up sucking, true, but overall there is nothing that tells me the Jets were absolutely correct in trading up to #5 to pick a west coast QB that wasn't that great in college. There were plenty of other options between the time we drafted him and now that could have resulted in us currently having a better player at the position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckesg1 View Post
    Wrong.

    You don't take away the best defensive player in the NFL without it having some effect. For example, I think we beat New England if Revis is on the team that week.
    and do you think the pats would have won more easy if Hernadez was ot injured, or the two starting guards Mankins and Connolly, or maybe the two starting safeties, Chung and Gregory?

    both teams had injuries not just the jets.

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