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Thread: Do you think we could trade Revis for Von Miller?

  1. #61
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    First who cares about Oakland? And why would you even bring another team up just because they are in a worse predicament?
    Read it again may be youll get my comment the 2nd time around. We are talking about teams that might take Mark and what it would cost. We aren't getting a value player so to move him we would have to take someone elses cap issues. That was the whole point of my comment. Sorry if it was over a Pats fan head.

    And no an UNFA can not play better than Pace, Scott, Greene or Smith, or the current back ups would be starting. Rex or any coach needs to win to
    keep his job. They would play the better player if there was one.
    I disagree. Have you seen any of these guys play? Pace and Scott aren't starters on any other team IMO. Pace is an edge blitz option that cant get pressure or stop the run anymore. Scott is just done and Smith well OK maybe him. As far as Greene RB is fickle I'll take a gamble over what we have right now. I'll take a shot at someone like Redman, Morris, or even a Joique Bell. It is not like Greene is even putting up average RB #s this year. Outside of 1 game even I'll admit he is a bust. I was one of his biggest supporters by the way. But he will not be worth the money to resign him next year.

    It does not matter if you think the positions to be filled are not "prime" To get a vet guard to come here that will be an improvement over Slauson or Moore your looking at around 3 mill a piece at minimum.
    That is my point thanks. It isn't going to coast 6-16 mil to resign or replace any of them. Yeah Moore gets a 3 mill deal we still get part of that off the cap. 700k off the cap # is still 700k it doesn't matter if he signs a vet min deal or not.
    Landry will probably want 3 and 15 total at min if he takes a discount to stay. Bell would probably stay for 1.5 too.
    I'll take either of those deals in a heart beat that again is my point not hard to fill. I honestly think that is right. Even at 3 year 15 mill Landry can be back loaded. I'd think he'd be looking for a 5 year deal though. 5 year 20mil would make everyone happy IMO.

    Please tell me what starting TE are you going to get for 3mill. Bennet signed a one year 2.5 deal with the giants last year, but he was the only TE that move that cheaply. And he only did that for a shot at a ring and to play with Manning. Any other guy was not somebody you would want to start.
    Kevin Boss just signed a 9 mil 3 year deal and is only making 750k this year. Tamme was almost the same deal. Celek is also around 3 mil a year. That is average TE money. Heck Dallas Clark signed a 1 year 2.7 mil deal last year. Your telling me that wouldn't be a viable replacement? You really don't need to spend big buck at TE to get value.

    Why do you think Moore will sign a vet min deal with the Jets? You don't think he can get a back up gig for twice that somewhere. Likewise Pouha, who will get an incentive laden contract somewhere, NTs are hard to find.
    I have no doubt that BB would sign Pouha to back up Wilfork for 20 snaps.
    I already cover Moore. I'll take the vet discount and give him a 2 year 6mil deal NP. That is cheap for the talent level IMO. Pouha though struggled to get what he got from us last year at 5 mil a year and he was a top 3 NT FA last year. Most of which incentive laden lol What makes you think he is worth more then 1 mil next year? Seriously how much do you think a 34 year old NT with injury concerns is worth on the open market? He was a part time starter to begin with and has declined greatly this year. No one is giving him more that deal again next year. Other then maybe Pitts who out there needs a NT right now? So many teams have switch back to a 4-3. Not to mention that FA class is actually pretty stacked at NT. Sopoaga, Rogers, Kemoeatu, Hampton, Franklin, Cody, Branch, and Bannan where do you really think Puoha would be in this group? lol I'd take him over Hampton and Rodgers at a cheap price and that is about it.

    Folk will get at least 2.5 on the open Market.
    He has had a very good year. the best kickers get 3.5-4 mil now.
    lololol no Folk just signed a under 1 mil deal this year. Why does he get that kind of raise? He is still the same player he was last year the pro bowl is NOT in his future. OK kick him back a raise but 2.5! My hats off to his agent if he can get that from anyone.
    Last edited by Dreamers; 11-06-2012 at 03:31 PM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    So you're trying to tell us that Revis couldn't get more money than Julius Peppers on the FA market? Certainly you can't believe that.
    I'm not saying that he can't. What I'm saying is that teams would be stupid to pay him that much. But, it's the NFL, where teams do stupid **** all the time, just look at Buffalo and Mario Williams. Or go back to Washington and Haynesworth.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    Read it again may be youll get my comment the 2nd time around. We are talking about teams that might take Mark and what it would cost. We aren't getting a value player so to move him we would have to take someone elses cap issues. That was the whole point of my comment. Sorry if it was over a Pats fan head.



    I disagree. Have you seen any of these guys play? Pace and Scott aren't starters on any other team IMO. Pace is an edge blitz option that cant get pressure or stop the run anymore. Scott is just done and Smith well OK maybe him. As far as Greene RB is fickle I'll take a gamble over what we have right now. I'll take a shot at someone like Redman, Morris, or even a Joique Bell. It is not like Greene is even putting up average RB #s this year. Outside of 1 game even I'll admit he is a bust. I was one of his biggest supporters by the way. But he will not be worth the money to resign him next year.



    That is my point thanks. It isn't going to coast 6-16 mil to resign or replace any of them. Yeah Moore gets a 3 mill deal we still get part of that off the cap. 700k off the cap # is still 700k it doesn't matter if he signs a vet min deal or not.


    I'll take either of those deals in a heart beat that again is my point not hard to fill. I honestly think that is right. Even at 3 year 15 mill Landry can be back loaded. I'd think he'd be looking for a 5 year deal though. 5 year 20mil would make everyone happy IMO.



    Kevin Boss just signed a 9 mil 3 year deal and is only making 750k this year. Tamme was almost the same deal. Celek is also around 3 mil a year. That is average TE money. Heck Dallas Clark signed a 1 year 2.7 mil deal last year. Your telling me that wouldn't be a viable replacement? You really don't need to spend big buck at TE to get value.



    I already cover Moore. I'll take the vet discount and give him a 2 year 6mil deal NP. That is cheap for the talent level IMO. Pouha though struggled to get what he got from us last year at 5 mil a year and he was a top 3 NT FA last year. Most of which incentive laden lol What makes you think he is worth more then 1 mil next year? Seriously how much do you think a 34 year old NT with injury concerns is worth on the open market? He was a part time starter to begin with and has declined greatly this year. No one is giving him more that deal again next year. Other then maybe Pitts who out there needs a NT right now? So many teams have switch back to a 4-3. Not to mention that FA class is actually pretty stacked at NT. Sopoaga, Rogers, Kemoeatu, Hampton, Franklin, Cody, Branch, and Bannan where do you really think Puoha would be in this group? lol I'd take him over Hampton and Rodgers at a cheap price and that is about it.


    lololol no Folk just signed a under 1 mil deal this year. Why does he get that kind of raise? He is still the same player he was last year the pro bowl is NOT in his future. OK kick him back a raise but 2.5! My hats off to his agent if he can get that from anyone.
    What is the post number where you talk about Mark, I don't see it- sorry

    If a team needs a kicker Folk will be a target. You don't, I think there will be a market. I agree he won't sniff a probowl but that does not mean a team won't give him 2.5 mill to hit FG at a 90% rate, Plus he is a very good long range kicker.

    I am asking you to see who is a FA TE that you can get, Celek signed a 6 year contract 4 years ago. Boss got two receptions this year, i think you need more than that. In 8 games this year Clark has 19 receptions and is a guy that is likely to go on IR due to his chronic injuries.

    Add up the numbers you want to sign the players, your going to go over the 14 mill you have to spend.

    And what is this 700,000 discount- there is no such thing. Based on how many years he is in the league a vet cap charge will max out at 540,000. he could earn up to 950,000 (12 tears experience) and the 410,000 dif would not go against the cap. If you get more than the min or any signing bonus the team does not get any credit. Please read below.

    While recently re-signing veteran center Todd McClure and veteran long-snapper Joe Zelenka, Dimitroff took advantage of the veteran minimum salary benefit. That’s a rule that basically was put in so that veterans aren’t priced out of the league. Zelenka’s a 12-year veteran and McClure has been in the NFL for 13 seasons. At that level of experience, the minimum salary is $925,000.

    That’s the salary Zelenka and McClure will receive this season, but the benefit allows their base salary to count only $540,000 against the salary cap. McClure got a $65,000 signing bonus, so his cap figure is $605,000, even though the total cash value of his one-year contract is $990,000. Zelenka didn’t get a signing bonus so his cap figure is $540,000.

    What makes you think Pouha he will sign for 1 mill from a team that just cut him. None of those other DTs you mention are going to come in for a vet min contract, so why do you mention them.
    Last edited by patman; 11-06-2012 at 05:21 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    What is the post number where you talk about Mark, I don't see it- sorry

    If a team needs a kicker Folk will be a target. You don't, I think there will be a market. I agree he won't sniff a probowl but that does not mean a team won't give him 2.5 mill to hit FG at a 90% rate, Plus he is a very good long range kicker.

    I am asking you to see who is a FA TE that you can get, Celek signed a 6 year contract 4 years ago. Boss got two receptions this year, i think you need more than that. In 8 games this year Clark has 19 receptions and is a guy that is likely to go on IR due to his chronic injuries.

    Add up the numbers you want to sign the players, your going to go over the 14 mill you have to spend.


    And what is this 700,000 discount- there is no such thing. Based on how many years he is in the league a vet cap charge will max out at 540,000. he could earn up to 950,000 (12 tears experience) and the 410,000 dif would not go against the cap. If you get more than the min or any signing bonus the team does not get any credit. Please read below.

    While recently re-signing veteran center Todd McClure and veteran long-snapper Joe Zelenka, Dimitroff took advantage of the veteran minimum salary benefit. That’s a rule that basically was put in so that veterans aren’t priced out of the league. Zelenka’s a 12-year veteran and McClure has been in the NFL for 13 seasons. At that level of experience, the minimum salary is $925,000.

    That’s the salary Zelenka and McClure will receive this season, but the benefit allows their base salary to count only $540,000 against the salary cap. McClure got a $65,000 signing bonus, so his cap figure is $605,000, even though the total cash value of his one-year contract is $990,000. Zelenka didn’t get a signing bonus so his cap figure is $540,000.

    What makes you think Pouha he will sign for 1 mill from a team that just cut him. None of those other DTs you mention are going to come in for a vet min contract, so why do you mention them.
    By your own account we have 20 mil without restructuring Harris even. That is right. Your going by a 121mil cap right? We had about 4 mil in carry over last year and 5mil went to rookies which is why we have a 130mil cap limit this year. Expect about the same and who knows if the cap limit rises as well. Those are the #s if it changes it will go up not down. Subtract that 40 mil from those 6 players that have already been mentioned and you have at least 20 mil in cap space on the 121 mil alone. I just don't agree with your math is all. When all is said and done this team could have as much as 30-35 mil in cap space to spend on FAs that is plenty. Seriously we have more then 6 guys that can create cap space. Trades and restructures happen you also don't have to space a contract out evenly.

    We simply aren't in as bad of shape as your making it out IMO. NON of our FA will be making 6+ mil next year so resigning any of them is no big deal IMO. Even if we resign Landry, Keller, Bell, and Brandon Moore a good GM can keep that under a 10 mil hit this year if really need be. Given Holmes, Cro, and Mark all represent over an 8 mil cut in 2014 each that is no big deal IMO. Moving 4-5 mil over to the next year is a no brainer. As mention with Landry even if your talking a 3 year 15 mil deal. 3.5 mil one year 6.5 mil the next isn't a crippling deal that next year to keep a good player. If not this is actually a pretty strong S FA class I'm sure we can find someone at that price.

    If Folk can get that much I wish him luck in his new job. Personally I don't see any team offering him more then 1.5 mil and even on that I'll pass. Again not real hard to replace. I think Rackers is still a FA right now and I still say he is better. I actually don't want Pouha back I just don't see him making more then that really. Vet min is about all he is worth IMO. Big disappointment to me really. He has been in NJ his whole career so if that is all he can get in FA I can't see why he'd say no to us if we offered it. I'd be OK with Ellis and Harrison at this point. Also if we do go 4-3 he would be out regardless. We dont really need to bring him back at 34. Maybe if he starts playing better I'll change my tune but I just don't see it right now.

    Your probably right on the vet discount #s I have never actually seen the guidelines on it. I though it was more but a discount is a discount. I don't think the JETS have ever had one of those guys as a Pat fan you would know more on that. Seem like you always have a few. Yeah Moore can get much more then vet min so I was dumb for saying that. You know where I stand on Pouha now vet min is likely for him IMO.
    Last edited by Dreamers; 11-06-2012 at 08:39 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    By your own account we have 20 mil without restructuring Harris even. That is right. Your going by a 121mil cap right? We had about 4 mil in carry over last year and 5mil went to rookies which is why we have a 130mil cap limit this year. Expect about the same and who knows if the cap limit rises as well. Those are the #s if it changes it will go up not down. Subtract that 40 mil from those 6 players that have already been mentioned and you have at least 20 mil in cap space on the 121 mil alone. I just don't agree with your math is all. When all is said and done this team could have as much as 30-35 mil in cap space to spend on FAs that is plenty. Seriously we have more then 6 guys that can create cap space. Trades and restructures happen you also don't have to space a contract out evenly.

    We simply aren't in as bad of shape as your making it out IMO. NON of our FA will be making 6+ mil next year so resigning any of them is no big deal IMO. Even if we resign Landry, Keller, Bell, and Brandon Moore a good GM can keep that under a 10 mil hit this year if really need be. Given Holmes, Cro, and Mark all represent over an 8 mil cut in 2014 each that is no big deal IMO. Moving 4-5 mil over to the next year is a no brainer. As mention with Landry even if your talking a 3 year 15 mil deal. 3.5 mil one year 6.5 mil the next isn't a crippling deal that next year to keep a good player. If not this is actually a pretty strong S FA class I'm sure we can find someone at that price.

    If Folk can get that much I wish him luck in his new job. Personally I don't see any team offering him more then 1.5 mil and even on that I'll pass. Again not real hard to replace. I think Rackers is still a FA right now and I still say he is better. I actually don't want Pouha back I just don't see him making more then that really. Vet min is about all he is worth IMO. Big disappointment to me really. He has been in NJ his whole career so if that is all he can get in FA I can't see why he'd say no to us if we offered it. I'd be OK with Ellis and Harrison at this point. Also if we do go 4-3 he would be out regardless. We dont really need to bring him back at 34. Maybe if he starts playing better I'll change my tune but I just don't see it right now.

    Your probably right on the vet discount #s I have never actually seen the guidelines on it. I though it was more but a discount is a discount. I don't think the JETS have ever had one of those guys as a Pat fan you would know more on that. Seem like you always have a few. Yeah Moore can get much more then vet min so I was dumb for saying that. You know where I stand on Pouha now vet min is likely for him IMO.

    Yes, you will have 20 mill to spend after cutting, Pouha, Eric Smith, jason Smith, pace and Scott.

    I don't understand what you mean by what the jets spent on rookies this year. The rookie pool is part of the 121 mill cap it is not added on. If it did it would mean that the teams that pick at the top of the round will have more money to spend that teams at the bottom of the round. As the top picks get paid more than the lower picks.

    I tried to explain that some of the reserve that the jets had of 5.6 goes to meet incentives that were not held against this years cap. 1.7 mill just to Landry himself.

    I totally agree that none of the jets who are FA will demand a 6 mill salary to resign. Landry would be the only one to get close to that and Keller may get 4 mill a year. And yes I think the jets maybe able to resign Keller, Landry, Moore and Bell.

    I don't know of any player that the jets can trade that will free up any significant cap room. Remember, when you trade a player all his remaining SB amortization hits the jets cap. For instance if you trade revis- his 6 mill salary is absorbed by the new team, but the remaining SB of 9 mill hit the jets cap so the jets actually lose 3 mill of cap room.

    Yes, you can restructure some salaries and convert that to SB, but remember, this is what got the jets into this mess. Do you really want to guarantee more of harris' contract? A lot of jet fans think he is slowing down and is overpaid now, as he gets older he will get harder to cut if you restructure now.

    Pouha has only made about 5 mill in his career to this date. If another team offers him 2 mill and the jets offer him 1 mill he will leave. That extra 1 mill may be the last money he sees in a nfl uniform.

    My point is that the jets are a 6-10 , 7-9 team right now. and your going to lose some players from that team. My point is that I don't think the jets will have a good team as they do now because of the cap, never mind improve..

    When I said landry at 3 years 15 mill that was the minimum. Remember that Reggie nelson got 4 years 18 mill and he stinks.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Yes, you will have 20 mill to spend after cutting, Pouha, Eric Smith, jason Smith, pace and Scott.

    I don't understand what you mean by what the jets spent on rookies this year. The rookie pool is part of the 121 mill cap it is not added on. If it did it would mean that the teams that pick at the top of the round will have more money to spend that teams at the bottom of the round. As the top picks get paid more than the lower picks.

    I tried to explain that some of the reserve that the jets had of 5.6 goes to meet incentives that were not held against this years cap. 1.7 mill just to Landry himself.

    I totally agree that none of the jets who are FA will demand a 6 mill salary to resign. Landry would be the only one to get close to that and Keller may get 4 mill a year. And yes I think the jets maybe able to resign Keller, Landry, Moore and Bell.

    I don't know of any player that the jets can trade that will free up any significant cap room. Remember, when you trade a player all his remaining SB amortization hits the jets cap. For instance if you trade revis- his 6 mill salary is absorbed by the new team, but the remaining SB of 9 mill hit the jets cap so the jets actually lose 3 mill of cap room.

    Yes, you can restructure some salaries and convert that to SB, but remember, this is what got the jets into this mess. Do you really want to guarantee more of harris' contract? A lot of jet fans think he is slowing down and is overpaid now, as he gets older he will get harder to cut if you restructure now.

    Pouha has only made about 5 mill in his career to this date. If another team offers him 2 mill and the jets offer him 1 mill he will leave. That extra 1 mill may be the last money he sees in a nfl uniform.

    My point is that the jets are a 6-10 , 7-9 team right now. and your going to lose some players from that team. My point is that I don't think the jets will have a good team as they do now because of the cap, never mind improve..

    When I said landry at 3 years 15 mill that was the minimum. Remember that Reggie nelson got 4 years 18 mill and he stinks.
    I actually have no problem with giving Harris anther 2 years. He is going to be here min 2 more years anyway. If he takes a 2 year ext and spread out 5 mill over the next 3 That would work for me really. Unless they plan on cutting him in the next 2 you might as well go ahead and do it you actually have very little to loose. Even it out at 8 mil a year and put most of the bonus up front. That way if you want you can cut him after 2 with little cut and he still gets the 20 mil he'd be due anyway. We are already giving him 7 in 2014 guaranteeing that and adding a mil seems low risk to me. Really think they can make it work without hurting future cap #s and make it viable.

    Yes signing bonus's do not transfer but base salaries and intensives can. Mark for example if traded his guaranteed 8.25 salary will transfer and we'd actually get about 3.5 mil. That just isn't likely I'll admit but a guy can hope. Also if Revis is traded you might as well just ext Cro as well. He has very little guaranteed in 2014 and with Revis gone he'd likely be here the long hail anyway. If we resign Revis, Cro can be traded this year to save space too. Cro has like 7.7 in "misc bonus" but only a like 2.5 SB left after this year. Holmes is actually doable as well. His SB will only be 3.75mil as well. We just can't cut them. Yeah and I guess Tebow too. Obviously non of his current deal is a signing bonus. But you have to find a taker on any of these guys at what is still a high rate. We have moves they just aren't easy. The Revis deal was just tricky. Our whole cap # pretty much hangs on what they do with him. You just can't let him walk after next year IMO. Get what you can in trade or extend him while he is cheaper. Assuming he will even do that. Yeah I am sure I am assuming too much here but just going by the #s I find on sporttrac and our cap page it sounds right to me. I just feel they can find ways to get it done they always do. OK though it does always seem they overpay for 1 or 2 players every year. Tanny just isn't the numbers genus they say he is.
    Last edited by Dreamers; 11-07-2012 at 12:48 AM.

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    No doubt, b/c dominant pass rushers grow on trees and are easy to find.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    I actually have no problem with giving Harris anther 2 years. He is going to be here min 2 more years anyway. If he takes a 2 year ext and spread out 5 mill over the next 3 That would work for me really. Unless they plan on cutting him in the next 2 you might as well go ahead and do it you actually have very little to loose. Even it out at 8 mil a year and put most of the bonus up front. That way if you want you can cut him after 2 with little cut and he still gets the 20 mil he'd be due anyway. We are already giving him 7 in 2014 guaranteeing that and adding a mil seems low risk to me. Really think they can make it work without hurting future cap #s and make it viable.

    Yes signing bonus's do not transfer but base salaries and intensives can. Mark for example if traded his guaranteed 8.25 salary will transfer and we'd actually get about 3.5 mil. That just isn't likely I'll admit but a guy can hope. Also if Revis is traded you might as well just ext Cro as well. He has very little guaranteed in 2014 and with Revis gone he'd likely be here the long hail anyway. If we resign Revis, Cro can be traded this year to save space too. Cro has like 7.7 in "misc bonus" but only a like 2.5 SB left after this year. Holmes is actually doable as well. His SB will only be 3.75mil as well. We just can't cut them. Yeah and I guess Tebow too. Obviously non of his current deal is a signing bonus. But you have to find a taker on any of these guys at what is still a high rate. We have moves they just aren't easy. The Revis deal was just tricky. Our whole cap # pretty much hangs on what they do with him. You just can't let him walk after next year IMO. Get what you can in trade or extend him while he is cheaper. Assuming he will even do that. Yeah I am sure I am assuming too much here but just going by the #s I find on sporttrac and our cap page it sounds right to me. I just feel they can find ways to get it done they always do. OK though it does always seem they overpay for 1 or 2 players every year. Tanny just isn't the numbers genus they say he is.
    Fans can wish Sanchez and Holmes retire early and pay back their bonus. But to think that there is going to be cap space based on that is wishful thinking and just leads to disappointment in the spring when FA are not signed.

    Extending a 30 year old Harris to free up a few million on a rebuilding team is not the way I would want my team to go.

    The jets are not in good shape, but they are not in cap hell either. none of the players they need to cut are high producers or in Pouha's case injured.
    The jet fans are going to experience seeing a very young team on the field next year. At least when a team is rebuilding the fans have hope. Right now the fans here don't seem to have much of that.
    Last edited by patman; 11-07-2012 at 06:20 AM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Fans can wish Sanchez and Holmes retire early and pay back their bonus. But to think that there is going to be cap space based on that is wishful thinking and just leads to disappointment in the spring when FA are not signed.

    Extending a 30 year old Harris to free up a few million on a rebuilding team is not the way I would want my team to go.

    The jets are not in good shape, but they are not in cap hell either. none of the players they need to cut are high producers or in Pouha's case injured.
    The jet fans are going to experience seeing a very young team on the field next year. At least when a team is rebuilding the fans have hope. Right now the fans here don't seem to have much of that.
    I don't mind getting younger, my problem the development of players by this coaching staff.
    Rex is starting to show why he wasn't given the keys to the Ravens. Yes, Rex is a top DC in this league "IF" , he has the pcs in place, like the Ravens & the 2009, 2010 Jets.
    We need a new GM that can get him the right pcs, without Rex input.
    Here they are, coach them!
    That's why Jimmy Johnson kicked Azz in this league, that guy knew young talent & he knew how to get he most from them.

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    Well Rex is going to be the HC for next year unless Cowher or Gruden express interest.

    With the exception of the dlnie and LB, present jet personnel could function in any scheme. the oline could go straight power or ZBS, The d-backs could play zone or man, If you go for another DE he just has to be a tweener where he can play either the 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE depending on what the next coach (if any) wants to play.
    Last edited by patman; 11-07-2012 at 11:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    I don't mind getting younger, my problem the development of players by this coaching staff.
    Rex is starting to show why he wasn't given the keys to the Ravens. Yes, Rex is a top DC in this league "IF" , he has the pcs in place, like the Ravens & the 2009, 2010 Jets.
    We need a new GM that can get him the right pcs, without Rex input.
    Here they are, coach them!
    That's why Jimmy Johnson kicked Azz in this league, that guy knew young talent & he knew how to get he most from them.
    I really think there is a huge piece that is being forgotten with respect to Rex/Defense/Ravens.

    The ravens were PERFECT for a lenient, player friendly coach because they had arguably the best leader in the history of the NFL in Ray Lewis. Add Ed Reed and Suggs to that and Rex didnt need to worry about the "pulse of the team"...Ray was in charge of that, and there was never a single effort issue on his watch.

    I believe that Rex figured he could replicate some of that leadership with Bart, which is a big reason why we paid him...which I personally was fine with. Unfortunately Bart's physical skills quickly diminished and it became apparent how big the difference is between actual leadership and talking smack.

    I really think that too much emphasis is placed on coaches "having the team ready to play". There is only so much a coach can do to keep guys motivated, at some point it falls on the players. Parcells is considered arguably one of the best motivators the NFL has ever seen, but look at who was on some of his teams. The giants is self explanatory with LT, etc. But with the Pats he had miginist, curtis martin and ted johnson. With the jets he brought in bryan cox and curtis...then look at dallas. He never had those type of guys and he struggled.

    These are grown men, playing for their career - there is only so much motivating a coach can do, eventually you play as hard as the men around you and frankly we dont have the type of leaders on the field to get the job done.

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