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Thread: Where would we be with peyton....

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    This is exactly my point....we dont need aaron rogers here to be a 6-2 team right now. Peyton is working as a "game manager" right now and its working and hes doing it using a similar strategy that rex is being killed for.

    It makes no sense
    A game manager that has 20 TDs and 6 picks at the midway point? Get the @!#$ out of here with that sh!t. He's just working with the talent he has. Wayne and Harrison are bordeline HOFers. If he had borderline HOFers at the WR position in Denver you'd see a little more of the old Peyton. Indy's offense was loaded while Manning was there. Denver has few weapons and Manning is just making the best out of them. Game managers are not MVP candidates which Manning cleary is at this point.
    Last edited by LockeJET; 11-05-2012 at 07:52 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    Jets Fans,

    Let's be serious here....




    If Peyton was here, he'd STRUGGLE with the crap WR's we have and then we'd all be wondering if Peyton is washed up....


    OR


    He'd get injured and be out for the rest of the season..... Typical Jets Franchise Luck.




    Jets weren't going to "win" no matter what in this situation.
    Stop. We have 5 wins with an average NFL QB. With Manning we'd have at least 6.

  3. #23
    6-1 a QB at that level is the difference!

  4. #24
    Peyton would be in IR and who knows from there.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by LockeJET View Post
    A game manager that has 20 TDs and 6 picks at the midway point? Get the @!#$ out of here with that sh!t. He's just working with the talent he has. Wayne and Harrison are bordeline HOFers. If he had borderline HOFers at the WR position in Denver you'd see a little more of the old Peyton. Indy's offense was loaded while Manning was there. Denver has few weapons and Manning is just making the best out of them. Game managers are not MVP candidates which Manning cleary is at this point.
    Im not really sure what you are getting at.

    You state that he is simply working with the limited weapons he has and making the best out of them. Yet the point of the thread is that we give sanchez every excuse about the talent surronding him even though other QBs actually get the players around them to ELEVATE their games.

    Peyton is an MVP candidate for the exact reasons sanchez needs to get kicked out of town. He has taken marginal weapons and made an excellent offense out of them. Our QB has taken marginal weapons and made them worse.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Im not really sure what you are getting at.

    You state that he is simply working with the limited weapons he has and making the best out of them. Yet the point of the thread is that we give sanchez every excuse about the talent surronding him even though other QBs actually get the players around them to ELEVATE their games.

    Peyton is an MVP candidate for the exact reasons sanchez needs to get kicked out of town. He has taken marginal weapons and made an excellent offense out of them. Our QB has taken marginal weapons and made them worse.
    I agree that Sanchez is a dud. But you stated that Manning was game managing this year with Denver. Which he's not at all. Game managers don't throw the ball all game long like Manning does.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by LockeJET View Post
    I agree that Sanchez is a dud. But you stated that Manning was game managing this year with Denver. Which he's not at all. Game managers don't throw the ball all game long like Manning does.
    He is actually coming in at 13th in the league in attempts...which is the top half, but far from a crazy ratio.

    He is really just being extremely efficient in that he completes such a high % of the passes that his yardage and TD totals are high, making this all the more impressive.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Incorrect, like any good QB, he would make his WRs better by putting them in position to succeed by seeing the whole field and getting them the ball when they are open. He would change protections and plays at the line to keep himself from getting sacked and make the players around him accountable for their mistakes.
    Yeah, here's a question. How injured is Santonio Holmes versus just not wanting to play. And if you tell me that's a stupid idea, look at his reaction to the suckiness of Sanchez @ the end of last season. To me, Holmes would come back sooner if he had half a thought that it would make a difference.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveInNNJ View Post
    Yeah, here's a question. How injured is Santonio Holmes versus just not wanting to play. And if you tell me that's a stupid idea, look at his reaction to the suckiness of Sanchez @ the end of last season. To me, Holmes would come back sooner if he had half a thought that it would make a difference.
    Holmes has a legitimate injury, he isnt faking it or intentionally sitting out.

    But you can rest assured that he is not the least bit concerned about missing this debacle of a season, and he has $50 million reasons behind that.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Holmes has a legitimate injury, he isnt faking it or intentionally sitting out.

    But you can rest assured that he is not the least bit concerned about missing this debacle of a season, and he has $50 million reasons behind that.
    Did you check for cadaver legs near the MRI machine? How can we be sure?

  11. #31
    We'd be in pretty good shape. Our run D would not be ranked nearly as low because opponents would be forced to throw more to keep up with our offense. And our pass D would probably have created more turnovers as a result. I think Kerley and Hill would be looking great with Peyton throwing to them, and his ability to audible to run plays when he sees something in the D would probably be helping Greene have a better year. McGahee is solid, but is he really all that much better than Greene at this stage of his career? I don't think so, yet he puts up better numbers with Peyton managing the offense.

  12. #32
    Peyton is not a game manager, just because his ball does not have the same zip does not equate to him being a game manager. The offense is designed for him, not because of him.

    He still reads defenses and gets rid of the ball quicker than any qb playing today. l;

    No jet fan should ever have hoped that Sanchez would ever be be the QB that Manning is even at this stage of his career.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Peyton is not a game manager, just because his ball does not have the same zip does not equate to him being a game manager. The offense is designed by him, not because of him.
    is what I think you meant to say. And no, he's not a game manager, but he's certainly adjusted his style to his age and arm strength. The 2012 Broncos don't play like the 2004 Colts. But Peyton is just as effective.

    Peyton and Brady are both providing some evidence that they could maybe in fact play until they're 40 barring further major injury. I expect that will hold true for a lot of the other great QBs coming through the league.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ASG0531 View Post
    is what I think you meant to say. And no, he's not a game manager, but he's certainly adjusted his style to his age and arm strength. The 2012 Broncos don't play like the 2004 Colts. But Peyton is just as effective.

    Peyton and Brady are both providing some evidence that they could maybe in fact play until they're 40 barring further major injury. I expect that will hold true for a lot of the other great QBs coming through the league.
    How would you define a game manager?

    You (and many other posters in the thread) are saying that peyton isnt a "game manager" yet he has adjusted his "game" to reflect a change in both physical skills and surronding talent.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    How would you define a game manager?

    You (and many other posters in the thread) are saying that peyton isnt a "game manager" yet he has adjusted his "game" to reflect a change in both physical skills and surronding talent.

    A "game manager" is a QB who relies more on other units (defense, rushing game) to contribute to a win than the passing game. Do you really not think the Broncos are relying on the passing game to contribute significantly to their victories? Peyton plays a different style than he did in his early MVP years, but everything still runs through Peyton's passing game. Hence, not a game manager.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    How would you define a game manager?

    You (and many other posters in the thread) are saying that peyton isnt a "game manager" yet he has adjusted his "game" to reflect a change in both physical skills and surronding talent.
    Bro, this is now the third time you have heavily undersold the Broncos' talent.

    I get that this thread is more about Sanchez's deficiencies as opposed to anything else, but the broncos won their division and a playoff game last year. I promise you, Tim Tebow had little to do with that.

    They have two high-end #2 receivers , one of whom some might consider a low-end #1 receiver (not unlike when we had Holmes and Bray), a studly OLine, a feature back (granted Mcgahee's age is up, he still gets it done), and a powerful defense that plays to the strengths of their Offense (strong back end and two ferocious pass rushers that can protect a lead).

    Peyton Manning has gone in there, and taken the Game Manager's job (Tebow was asked not to lose games until the final 5 minutes of games), and has become the play-making focal point of the team, who is asked to go out and win games everytime he's on the field.

    Peyton Manning, just because he "raises all boats", is not a game manager.

    Was Tom Brady a game manager from his run post-Moss in '09 till Gronk exploded on the scene last year, just because his only real weapon was Wes? Is Aaron Rodgers a game manager now, without any semblance of a running game, and playing every week without his #1, and the last two without his #2? No...they are all, and will forever be: Playmakers.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by greenwichjetfan View Post
    Bro, this is now the third time you have heavily undersold the Broncos' talent.

    I get that this thread is more about Sanchez's deficiencies as opposed to anything else, but the broncos won their division and a playoff game last year. I promise you, Tim Tebow had little to do with that.

    They have two high-end #2 receivers , one of whom some might consider a low-end #1 receiver (not unlike when we had Holmes and Bray), a studly OLine, a feature back (granted Mcgahee's age is up, he still gets it done), and a powerful defense that plays to the strengths of their Offense (strong back end and two ferocious pass rushers that can protect a lead).

    Peyton Manning has gone in there, and taken the Game Manager's job (Tebow was asked not to lose games until the final 5 minutes of games), and has become the play-making focal point of the team, who is asked to go out and win games everytime he's on the field.

    Peyton Manning, just because he "raises all boats", is not a game manager.

    Was Tom Brady a game manager from his run post-Moss in '09 till Gronk exploded on the scene last year, just because his only real weapon was Wes? Is Aaron Rodgers a game manager now, without any semblance of a running game, and playing every week without his #1, and the last two without his #2? No...they are all, and will forever be: Playmakers.
    In no way do i think tebow was the reason they won last year...it was behind defense and a strong running game (plus look at the division they "WON")


    The point (and title) of the thread is where would we be with peyton....a QB who raises the level of play of those around him. The "game manager" part of this discussion has stemmed from the fact that this isnt 2003 peyton with wayne and harrison. Its a QB dealing with the loss of some arm strength and an entirely new set of WRs who is using leadership, intelligence and the knowledge of the limitations of himself and the players around him to succeed by changing his game.

    Is decker a good player, sure. Is he THAT much better then kerley? Is dressen better then keller? Did I miss when tamme made the pro-bowl?

    Clady, Zane Beadels, Dan Koppen, Chris Kuper and Orlando Franklin....studly offensive line? Clady is the only definitively above average player on the line. Franklin is a good up and coming player, but kuper, koopen and beadels are nothing special. Koppen was waived by the pats this year.

    Game after game, fans come on here and whine that our line sucks, our WRs suck, greene is terrible, the defense loses games for us. At the end of the day, the QBs job is to RAISE the level of others play. Sometimes its aaron rogers throwing for 300+ yards on 14 completions (like he did last week) on talent alone and sometimes its players like manning, changing from a downfield throwing offense to a shorter passing offense and yet still managing to succeed.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ASG0531 View Post
    A "game manager" is a QB who relies more on other units (defense, rushing game) to contribute to a win than the passing game. Do you really not think the Broncos are relying on the passing game to contribute significantly to their victories? Peyton plays a different style than he did in his early MVP years, but everything still runs through Peyton's passing game. Hence, not a game manager.
    Exactly, Peyton is told to go out there, throw for 300 yards and multiple scores or the team will likely not win. He also directs that running game because many of the Broncos runs are audibles out of pass plays when Peyton sees something he likes. I have to say I've almost never seen Sanchez do something like that, he is basically rolling with whatever Sparano calls regardless of what he sees the D doing.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    In no way do i think tebow was the reason they won last year...it was behind defense and a strong running game (plus look at the division they "WON")


    The point (and title) of the thread is where would we be with peyton....a QB who raises the level of play of those around him. The "game manager" part of this discussion has stemmed from the fact that this isnt 2003 peyton with wayne and harrison. Its a QB dealing with the loss of some arm strength and an entirely new set of WRs who is using leadership, intelligence and the knowledge of the limitations of himself and the players around him to succeed by changing his game.

    Is decker a good player, sure. Is he THAT much better then kerley? Is dressen better then keller? Did I miss when tamme made the pro-bowl?

    Clady, Zane Beadels, Dan Koppen, Chris Kuper and Orlando Franklin....studly offensive line? Clady is the only definitively above average player on the line. Franklin is a good up and coming player, but kuper, koopen and beadels are nothing special. Koppen was waived by the pats this year.

    Game after game, fans come on here and whine that our line sucks, our WRs suck, greene is terrible, the defense loses games for us. At the end of the day, the QBs job is to RAISE the level of others play. Sometimes its aaron rogers throwing for 300+ yards on 14 completions (like he did last week) on talent alone and sometimes its players like manning, changing from a downfield throwing offense to a shorter passing offense and yet still managing to succeed.
    I'm not disagreeing with your last paragraph because I don't think it could be said better.

    I do disagree with your assessment of Denver's talent level. That OLine is top 5 in pass protection, and Ninth in run blocking (footballoutsiders). Of course Peyton has to do with that...no denying it, but even last year when the whole world and the aliens on mars knew that Denver was goin to run ~75% of the time (footballguys), they still had success because that OL is studly...might not have the individual scores, or the name recognition, but as a group, they're up there. Also have to remember that they're ranked this high this season even after going against the likes of the steelers, texans, and falcons defenses.

    As I said from the start, I understand the point of the thread and title...I think we'd be at 5-3 with wins over steelers and pats, and maybe 6-2 the way we played the texans tough on MNF.

    My rant/obnoxiously long posts are because I completely disagree with your assessment of Denver and Peyton; not because I disagree that Peyton obviously makes us a better team.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by greenwichjetfan View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with your last paragraph because I don't think it could be said better.

    I do disagree with your assessment of Denver's talent level. That OLine is top 5 in pass protection, and Ninth in run blocking (footballoutsiders). Of course Peyton has to do with that...no denying it, but even last year when the whole world and the aliens on mars knew that Denver was goin to run ~75% of the time (footballguys), they still had success because that OL is studly...might not have the individual scores, or the name recognition, but as a group, they're up there. Also have to remember that they're ranked this high this season even after going against the likes of the steelers, texans, and falcons defenses.

    As I said from the start, I understand the point of the thread and title...I think we'd be at 5-3 with wins over steelers and pats, and maybe 6-2 the way we played the texans tough on MNF.

    My rant/obnoxiously long posts are because I completely disagree with your assessment of Denver and Peyton; not because I disagree that Peyton obviously makes us a better team.
    Fair enough....

    I do think that peyton makes all those players, especially the line that much better.

    I dont think ive ever seen sanchez recognize a blitz and change the protection...even so much as move a RB from one side to the other.

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