Question for SAR

[eaglenj]

In 1 calendar year from Week 10 of 2011 up to Week 10 of 2012 the Jets have gone 6-11, now thats a winning QB!

See what I did there, its pretty easy to make the stats look any way you like when you can cherrypick the section of seasons you want.

Your crap on this board is insufferable

[SAR I]

In 1 calendar year from Week 10 of 2011 up to Week 10 of 2012 the Jets have gone 6-11, now thats a winning QB!

See what I did there, its pretty easy to make the stats look any way you like when you can cherrypick the section of seasons you want.

Your crap on this board is insufferable

There it is. See, it actually happened. So many wins up there it's hard to keep track of them all.

When he shook his rookie dust off, was supported with a strong running game and good protection and had decent WR's he was able to play very effectively, beat some elite teams, orchestrate some amazing comebacks.

You don't give up on a guy like that at the most important position on the field especially seeing how little talent he has around him right now.

Sorry you bought into "this is the most talented team ever we're going 12-4" nonsense that the rest of the Blind Homer Cult fell into. You were misled. This team has garbage receivers and an invisible running back. You don't have to believe SAR; just read the papers.

SAR I

[eaglenj]

There it is. See, it actually happened. So many wins up there it's hard to keep track of them all.

When he shook his rookie dust off, was supported with a strong running game and good protection and had decent WR's he was able to play very effectively, beat some elite teams, orchestrate some amazing comebacks.

You don't give up on a guy like that at the most important position on the field especially seeing how little talent he has around him right now.

Sorry you bought into "this is the most talented team ever we're going 12-4" nonsense that the rest of the Blind Homer Cult fell into. You were misled. This team has garbage receivers and an invisible running back. You don't have to believe SAR; just read the papers.

SAR I

"It Happened" Thats your response?

Guess what else happened

Putrid play in every single game this year except 1.

Disgusting interceptions and fumbles to ruin the 2011 season, ending in an 0-3 stread where he threw 5 Tds and 7 interceptions

Oh, and a 4 year career where he has never completed 60% of his passes in a single season.

[PatsFanTX]

After his first 6 games plagued by rookie jitters, Mark Sanchez won 16 of his next 20 games. That's what helps me sleep at night.

That's old news.

In his most recent 25 games, Sanchez has only 11 wins.

Have you been sleeping good lately?

[petejet]

That's old news.

In his most recent 25 games, Sanchez has only 11 wins.

Have you been sleeping good lately?

I think the point is that too many people think that Sanchez and Sanchez alone is what is causing the losing. SAR is right to an extent - people are too blind to see the rest of this team's shortcomings. ITS A TEAM GAME. When more than one facet of the team fails chances are everyone fails. If you put Brady or Manning on this team at best they are .500 Sanchez has become the scapegoat.

[SAR I]

That's old news.

In his most recent 25 games, Sanchez has only 11 wins.

Have you been sleeping good lately?

Some of us are not surprised by the current state of the Jets because we saw it coming. Unlike 90% of my Jets friends here, I am well past the shock-and-awe phase of our current dilemma.

Things went south for this team in mid-2011 when four things occurred:

1. The defense started sucking.
2. The offensive line fell apart.
3. Tomlinson and Burress tired out.
4. The running game collapsed.

And if there's a defining moment in time that ended the Rex Ryan Jets, it occurred in Week 10 last year at home against the Patriots. Going into that game, the Jets were 5-3 and Ryan had boasted about how this was the time we were finally going to pass the Patriots and take control of the division. How it was "our time" and the team was going to "step up", all that crap. And, as usual, we got blown out.

Going into that game, we were on a 25-11 streak. Since that game, the Jets are 6-11.

If Mark Sanchez was a good NFL quarterback when he had the right surrounding cast, it stands to reason he can be again once it's rebuilt. Everyone can see that we have terrible receivers, no running game, and a mediocre offensive line. The defense, the coaching, all brutal too. That's no way to win in the NFL.

SAR I

[PatsFanTX]

I think the point is that too many people think that Sanchez and Sanchez alone is what is causing the losing. SAR is right to an extent - people are too blind to see the rest of this team's shortcomings. ITS A TEAM GAME. When more than one facet of the team fails chances are everyone fails. If you put Brady or Manning on this team at best they are .500 Sanchez has become the scapegoat.

Good post pj.

SAR has been pretty much spot on about the state of the Jets starting last off-season.

But his underlying support of Sanchez is flawed, especially cherry-picking stats/games that support his arguement.

Regardless what the Jets do to improve their team, Sanchez is not the answer moving forward.

[petejet]

Good post pj.

SAR has been pretty much spot on about the state of the Jets starting last off-season.

But his underlying support of Sanchez is flawed, especially cherry-picking stats/games that support his arguement.

Regardless what the Jets do to improve their team, Sanchez is not the answer moving forward.

I actually believe Sanchez can be a pretty decent QB - just not here. He has already been tried and convicted. It's time to plan for the future and do whatever it takes to move on - in all phases of the team. Unfortunately I see two more down years until the cap mess can be cleared and we become competitive again.

[SAR I]

I think the point is that too many people think that Sanchez and Sanchez alone is what is causing the losing. SAR is right to an extent - people are too blind to see the rest of this team's shortcomings. ITS A TEAM GAME. When more than one facet of the team fails chances are everyone fails. If you put Brady or Manning on this team at best they are .500 Sanchez has become the scapegoat.

Thank you, Pete.

I'm not saying that Mark Sanchez is a great quarterback right now. Obviously, he isn't. The point is recognizing how bad the rest of the offense is and how much of a contributing factor that would be to any quarterback's performance.

The last time Mark Sanchez had all the offensive pieces to be successful, the Jets went on an amazing run and won 16 of 20 games. We need to see what he looks like next year or the year after with a similarly talented offense around him before throwing him away.

I think part of the problem here is Jets fans are spoiled by recent history:

Neil O'Donnell was brutal and replaced by Vinny Testaverde and we had success. Vinny Testaverde was replaced by Chad Pennington and we had success. Chad Pennington was replaced by Brett Favre and we had success. Brett Favre was replaced by Mark Sanchez and we had success.

During the last 15 years, as long as we had a functional quarterback the defense and offensive line and special-teams was good enough to carry us and be competitive. We were deep in those areas, stocked with young decent talent, and had a very nice 15-year run where we averaged 10 wins when our QB was healthy.

What we're looking at today is the inverse of that situation, and it's hard for some fans to fathom. That for once the quarterback is okay, and the defense and the offensive line and the special teams have fallen apart. That's exactly what happened. The quick-fix of replacing the quarterback isn't going to work now because after a long period of success the rest of the team is gone.

SAR I

[sec.101row23]

I think the point is that too many people think that Sanchez and Sanchez alone is what is causing the losing. SAR is right to an extent - people are too blind to see the rest of this team's shortcomings. ITS A TEAM GAME. When more than one facet of the team fails chances are everyone fails. If you put Brady or Manning on this team at best they are .500 Sanchez has become the scapegoat.

I think one of the most flawed arguments that is bounced around on this site is the one where Sanchez deserves NO credit for the success of the team his first two years due to the dominant defense and great running game, but yet gets all the blame when the team around him is not nearly as good as it was. You cant have it both ways, clearly Sanchez has not taken the steps forward that all of us had hoped, but the notion that it is 100% his fault is also flawed.

[SAR I]

I think one of the most flawed arguments that is bounced around on this site is the one where Sanchez deserves NO credit for the success of the team his first two years due to the dominant defense and great running game, but yet gets all the blame when the team around him is not nearly as good as it was. You cant have it both ways, clearly Sanchez has not taken the steps forward that all of us had hoped, but the notion that it is 100% his fault is also flawed.

See my post, above.

Most Jets fans are spoiled because we've always had a consistently good defense, offensive line, running-game, and special-teams. During the last 15 years, when it looked like things were going bad we would merely change the quarterback and suddenly we were reborn, off to the playoffs.

What Mark Sanchez may or may not be is immaterial now. Because what we're witnessing is the collapse of the defense, offensive line, running game, and special-teams. What have always been our stalwarts these past 15 years are gone now. This fixation on the quarterback position comes from relying on old tricks to solve problems. That isn't going to fly anymore.

SAR I

[eaglenj]

I think the point is that too many people think that Sanchez and Sanchez alone is what is causing the losing. SAR is right to an extent - people are too blind to see the rest of this team's shortcomings. ITS A TEAM GAME. When more than one facet of the team fails chances are everyone fails. If you put Brady or Manning on this team at best they are .500 Sanchez has become the scapegoat.

Do you really believe if we had gotten manning we would be .500 at best???

How does the pittsburgh game change if our QB hits wide open holmes in the endzone?

Do we beat the texans if our QB doesnt throw 2 INTs?

Does the NE game change if our QB doesnt miss a wide open HIll in the endzone?

What about Seattle if we score a TD instead of yet another redzone INT. Could peyton have recognized that we had the wrong protection on, leaving bruce irvin unblocked and changed it?

Look, there are holes on this team (any NFL team giving Clyde Gates menaingful snaps has an issue), but good QBs make their teams better, thats a fact.

Im not comparing rogers to sanchez as that is ludicrious, but rogers hasnt had a 100 yard rusher in over a year. He has been sacked more then sanchez, lost his #1 and #2 WR for different parts of the year and yet still leads his team to wins.

Our QB cant hit a wide open stephen hill in the middle of the endzone, and instead makes the same redzone mistake he made as a rookie.

Its not all on him, but he is a HUGE reason for the teams failure.

[Yankeejet22]

I think one of the most flawed arguments that is bounced around on this site is the one where Sanchez deserves NO credit for the success of the team his first two years due to the dominant defense and great running game, but yet gets all the blame when the team around him is not nearly as good as it was. You cant have it both ways, clearly Sanchez has not taken the steps forward that all of us had hoped, but the notion that it is 100% his fault is also flawed.

I'm a Sanchez fan. I know he hasn't played well. Many believe the Jets gave him everything to be successful. I think that's ridiculous. I believe they put too much on him too early, then threw him under the bus recently.

[ASG0531]

See my post, above.

Most Jets fans are spoiled because we've always had a consistently good defense, offensive line, running-game, and special-teams. During the last 15 years, when it looked like things were going bad we would merely change the quarterback and suddenly we were reborn, off to the playoffs.

What Mark Sanchez may or may not be is immaterial now. Because what we're witnessing is the collapse of the defense, offensive line, running game, and special-teams. What have always been our stalwarts these past 15 years are gone now. This fixation on the quarterback position comes from relying on old tricks to solve problems. That isn't going to fly anymore.

SAR I

And 15 years ago the rules were so vastly different from what they are today that the QB position is very much a material issue. You keep arguing that Sanchez' on-field performance is irrelevant through the prism of Rex's team-building plan, and then call that plan flawed. You're absolving him of virtually all responsibility, and in today's game that's not a winning formula.

Firing Rex and keeping Sanchez (and extending his contract yet again) is going to result in many more years of losing records for the Jets.

[sdJETSetter]

I'm a Sanchez fan. I know he hasn't played well. Many believe the Jets gave him everything to be successful. I think that's ridiculous. I believe they put too much on him too early, then threw him under the bus recently.

LOL. Threw him under the Bus?

By sticking with him through his crapstravaganza of performances this year?

[GreenWave]

Do you really believe if we had gotten manning we would be .500 at best???

How does the pittsburgh game change if our QB hits wide open holmes in the endzone?

Do we beat the texans if our QB doesnt throw 2 INTs?

Does the NE game change if our QB doesnt miss a wide open HIll in the endzone?

What about Seattle if we score a TD instead of yet another redzone INT. Could peyton have recognized that we had the wrong protection on, leaving bruce irvin unblocked and changed it?

Look, there are holes on this team (any NFL team giving Clyde Gates menaingful snaps has an issue), but good QBs make their teams better, thats a fact.

Im not comparing rogers to sanchez as that is ludicrious, but rogers hasnt had a 100 yard rusher in over a year. He has been sacked more then sanchez, lost his #1 and #2 WR for different parts of the year and yet still leads his team to wins.

Our QB cant hit a wide open stephen hill in the middle of the endzone, and instead makes the same redzone mistake he made as a rookie.

Its not all on him, but he is a HUGE reason for the teams failure.

It will fall on deaf ears, but this was a good post.

No rational person watches the Jets this season and thinks it's 100% on Mark Sanchez. There are plenty of times during a game where you wonder what kind of patterns the receivers are running, why the line can't open a hole for Greene, and what happens on that play when a passrusher comes unblocked. This offense overall, IS terrible.

But Sanchez has shown that he's incapable of consistently delivering when he has time in the pocket and the receivers are open. He's not accurate when everything lines up perfectly. He doesn't throw his receivers open when they have one-on-one coverage. He rarely recognizes blitz schemes or eludes the rush.

Bottom line, if you think the Jets should stick with Mark Sanchez at QB, then you also think the team should be loaded with talent on both sides of the ball (salary cap be damned) because it's not the QB's job to make special plays on the field. And before the "magical comebacks" are referenced, I think it's worth noting that Santonio Holmes had a combined 80 yards of YAC on the two plays that led to Jets victories in two of those games.

If we're now calling a 10-yard crossing routes that turn into a 40+ yard gains because a receiver put a sick move on a defender (twice) a "magical comeback by the QB," then it's just another example of how the bar is lowered for Sanchez.

[SAR I]

It will fall on deaf ears, but this was a good post.

No rational person watches the Jets this season and thinks it's 100% on Mark Sanchez. There are plenty of times during a game where you wonder what kind of patterns the receivers are running, why the line can't open a hole for Greene, and what happens on that play when a passrusher comes unblocked. This offense overall, IS terrible.

But Sanchez has shown that he's incapable of consistently delivering when he has time in the pocket and the receivers are open. He's not accurate when everything lines up perfectly. He doesn't throw his receivers open when they have one-on-one coverage. He rarely recognizes blitz schemes or eludes the rush.

Bottom line, if you think the Jets should stick with Mark Sanchez at QB, then you also think the team should be loaded with talent on both sides of the ball (salary cap be damned) because it's not the QB's job to make special plays on the field. And before the "magical comebacks" are referenced, I think it's worth noting that Santonio Holmes had a combined 80 yards of YAC on the two plays that led to Jets victories in two of those games.

If we're now calling a 10-yard crossing routes that turn into a 40+ yard gains because a receiver put a sick move on a defender (twice) a "magical comeback by the QB," then it's just another example of how the bar is lowered for Sanchez.

Mark Sanchez has spent more than half his career behind a pathetic offensive line that puts him under a severe pass rush

Mark Sanchez has spent more than half his career without a running attack that takes away the play action pass and floods LB's in passing lanes.

Mark Sanchez has spent more than half his career without a legitimate emergency back to dump-off to to turn negative plays into positives.

Mark Sanchez has spent more than half his career without a decent set of wide receivers to throw to.

Mark Sanchez has spent his entire career without a consistent set of wide receivers to develop a chemistry with.

The issue is that this "half his career" is currently taking place, and those with short-term memory issues forget how he went 16-4 back when he had a modicum of support.

If Mark Sanchez was leading an offense that featured '09 Braylon Edwards, '09 Jericho Cotchery, '10 Ladanian Tomlinson, '09 Thomas Jones/Shonn Greene, '10 Santonio Holmes, and '08 Dustin Keller then I'd agree with you, Mark has major problems. He's got nowhere near that arsenal right now, so you can't judge him properly.

Said it before, say it again: Start looking at the running game, the defense, and the coaching in that order. You'll find a 3-6 record right there before you even get into the damage that Sanchez might have done on his own.

SAR I

[SlickBri481]

If Mark Sanchez was a good NFL quarterback when he had the right surrounding cast, it stands to reason he can be again once it's rebuilt. Everyone can see that we have terrible receivers, no running game, and a mediocre offensive line. The defense, the coaching, all brutal too. That's no way to win in the NFL.

SAR I

Or we could find a QB who when he is allegedly "good," isn't still one of the 5-10 worst QBs in the league. You know, aim a little higher than "good QB" being the 20th best guy at the position. I've actually seen some teams have a player at that position who plays consistently at an elite level. Stunning, huh? I mean imagine if we had a good player at the game's most important position, but please don't strain yourself....

[SAR I]

Or we could find a QB who when he is allegedly "good," isn't still one of the 5-10 worst QBs in the league. You know, aim a little higher than "good QB" being the 20th best guy at the position. I've actually seen some teams have a player at that position who plays consistently at an elite level. Stunning, huh? I mean imagine if we had a good player at the game's most important position, but please don't strain yourself....

We have NEVER had a great quarterback in the 34 years I've been watching this team.

Mark Sanchez has shown FLASHES of greatness, has proven he's CLUTCH in the 4th quarter, and he plays his BEST in the postseason where it matters the most. He's here, he likes New York and he's under contract. He helped this team to 16 wins in 20 games, he won 4 playoff games, he was the best Jet on the field in the 2 Championship games that didn't go our way.

It is not coincidental that when the GM ignores the offense that Mark Sanchez looks like crap. Not coincidental that without a set of receivers with which to bond he hasn't blossomed into a better quarterback. Not coincidental that with a horrible supporting cast in '12 he's taken steps backwards. Why you expected things to be different I don't know.

Baby. Bathwater. Separate things.

SAR I

[SlickBri481]

We have NEVER had a great quarterback in the 34 years I've been watching this team.

Mark Sanchez has shown FLASHES of greatness, has proven he's CLUTCH in the 4th quarter, and he plays his BEST in the postseason where it matters the most. He's here, he likes New York and he's under contract. He helped this team to 16 wins in 20 games, he won 4 playoff games, he was the best Jet on the field in the 2 Championship games that didn't go our way.

It is not coincidental that when the GM ignores the offense that Mark Sanchez looks like crap. Not coincidental that without a set of receivers with which to bond he hasn't blossomed into a better quarterback. Not coincidental that with a horrible supporting cast in '12 he's taken steps backwards. Why you expected things to be different I don't know.

Baby. Bathwater. Separate things.

SAR I

I didn't expect things to go differently. Sanchez has never been a good QB. At least in 2010 there was some hope since he improved from year 1 and played well against the Pats in the playoffs. Realistically though, there was no magic to those playoff games. When our D held the often great offense on the other side of the field to 17 points or less, we won. When the D yielded over 20, we lost. This was no feat of amazing QB play or magical postseason abilities. It was a team effort that usually involved our D shutting down exceptional passing offenses and QBs. For his part, Sanchez generally avoided turnovers and made some clutch throws. But he was never put in even a remotely bad position in any of our wins. The D stymied the opponent, the running game worked, and Sanchez made throws when needed.

I want a top notch QB who can carry a team and win games alone with his arm. When I trade up to #5 in the draft to pick one, you're damn well right I expect that. Sanchez has never given it. He's actually even gotten worse as time has progressed. Sorry, onto the next one....