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Thread: Personnel decisions

  1. #21
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    For as much as we criticize the Pats for poor draft choices, they've got one thing right. The name of the game is to stockpile draft picks. Everyone knows there are going to be plenty of "misses" on draft choices, but if you've got lots of picks, you increase the odds that you will have enough high caliber players to compete. Tanny's biggest error is to constantly, trade away picks to move up, and when he does trade for more picks, it feels like it is always a 7th round pick.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    Rex is an awful coach
    Rex IS Wade Phillips. Great DC, terrible HC. A HC needs lots of qualities that are not needed for someone to be a successful DC. Rex, Like Wade Phillips, does not have those qualities. It goes the other way too, I bet John Harbaugh is far better as HC than he would be as a co-ordinator.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    For as much as we criticize the Pats for poor draft choices, they've got one thing right. The name of the game is to stockpile draft picks. Everyone knows there are going to be plenty of "misses" on draft choices, but if you've got lots of picks, you increase the odds that you will have enough high caliber players to compete. Tanny's biggest error is to constantly, trade away picks to move up, and when he does trade for more picks, it feels like it is always a 7th round pick.
    Not on this board do people understand that.

    Look how many people here complained about cutting a 6th round guard from baylor?

    I completely agree with the analysis though, tannys error has been trading away picks for players then then almost immediately became Free Agents, and who we then had to pay. In essence we paid a 2nd round pick for 1 year of Cro, since we could have just signed him outright the year after (yes at that time we were shooting for a SB), that is not a good long term move.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    Rex IS Wade Phillips. Great DC, terrible HC. A HC needs lots of qualities that are not needed for someone to be a successful DC. Rex, Like Wade Phillips, does not have those qualities. It goes the other way too, I bet John Harbaugh is far better as HC than he would be as a co-ordinator.
    One thing we also need to remember is that Baltimore was a "perfect storm" of a team for rex.

    He never needed to worry about motivation or effort, and especially didnt have to worry about "losing the locker room" because he had arguably the greatest leader to ever play in the NFL in Ray Lewis. In addition to lewis, he had suggs and ed reed, running that locker room, so he could sit back and be a players coach.

    Unfortunatley he brought Bart here to be that type of leader, but sadly for all of us, there is a HUGE difference between leading and talking trash after wins.

    Any coach needs good veteran leadership to be successful along with instilling fear in the players that poor play results in a demotion. We have neither here....to continue to play shonne greene (apparently enough that he now thinks he can actually criticize OTHER players), sanchez, bart etc is a slap in the face to the entire team and is a huge part of the reason this has turned into a complete tailspin.

  5. #25
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    Eagle, c-mon. McCourty is no great shakes by any means these last two years but he takes the best player, while Wilson most times takes the 3rd.

    Mccourty is fine when he has other players around him, as he was in his first year with a health Chung and Merriweater. Injuries at saftey the last two years
    has him playing 1/2 the game at corner sometimes in man, sometimes in Zone and 1/2 the game at FS, Last Sunday he was even in the box.

    BB's greatest failure in the last three years is his inability to keep a cohesive secondary back there. IMO he is ruining Devin with all the responsibility changes.

  6. #26
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    I used to think it was crazy to think Tanny even thought about personnel. The past two off seasons fly in the face of that. Maybe he watched himself on hard knocks and started to think he was pretty good. A GM needs to have a plan, and to surround himself with people that he trusts to carry that out. I mean no GM can do everything, but he needs to know what he does well, and what he needs to stay out of. The most important thing is to find the right people, trust them to do their jobs. I thought our scouting department was pretty good, and that Rex, and the OC would decide what we needed, and go from there. A new OC, right tackle, receiver, OLBs, and a blocking TE is what we needed. We went with Sporano, Tebow, Hunter, Cumberland, and Schilens. I don't think these decisions were made by the scouting department, or part of any sort of a plan. Tanny, I'm afraid does need to go, or just demoted, and we need a GM with a plan.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    I used to think it was crazy to think Tanny even thought about personnel. The past two off seasons fly in the face of that. Maybe he watched himself on hard knocks and started to think he was pretty good. A GM needs to have a plan, and to surround himself with people that he trusts to carry that out. I mean no GM can do everything, but he needs to know what he does well, and what he needs to stay out of. The most important thing is to find the right people, trust them to do their jobs. I thought our scouting department was pretty good, and that Rex, and the OC would decide what we needed, and go from there. A new OC, right tackle, receiver, OLBs, and a blocking TE is what we needed. We went with Sporano, Tebow, Hunter, Cumberland, and Schilens. I don't think these decisions were made by the scouting department, or part of any sort of a plan. Tanny, I'm afraid does need to go, or just demoted, and we need a GM with a plan.
    If he does have plans... they stink.

    Plan on OL seems to be to cut effective veterans in favor of JAG's or "reach" draft picks.

    How about that plan at WR? Get rid of Cotchery, spend the house on Holmes and sign Plax. How's that working out? How a team does not make room for a guy like Cotchery is a complete mystery to me. The Jets would certainly benefit from his presence right now.

    What exactly was the plan at S? Oh yeah, hope an pray guys are available in free agency.

    And it's great to see all the young LB'rs on the Roster to replace the well beyond their expiration dates Scott, Thomas, and Pace.

    I could go on, but I'm making myself very depressed.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Eagle, c-mon. McCourty is no great shakes by any means these last two years but he takes the best player, while Wilson most times takes the 3rd.

    Mccourty is fine when he has other players around him, as he was in his first year with a health Chung and Merriweater. Injuries at saftey the last two years
    has him playing 1/2 the game at corner sometimes in man, sometimes in Zone and 1/2 the game at FS, Last Sunday he was even in the box.

    BB's greatest failure in the last three years is his inability to keep a cohesive secondary back there. IMO he is ruining Devin with all the responsibility changes.
    You could make a fair argument that wilson is playing out of position as a slot CB too.

    Look I know that this is a team game, but the Pats secondary has been atrocious for 2 years and mcourty has to be included in that. Even if when all is said and done mcourty is "better": then wilson, the margin is so small that its worth a fair discussion. Which is my point....there is such a glass half empty mentality with out picks here. Just because espn kissed the pats a$$es and praises their picks as all-pros after 6 games, doesnt mean the players are ACTUALLY great.

    Wilson is no all-pro, but he also isnt as bad as people here think he is. There are plenty of first round picks that are out of the league in 3 years....

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    I used to think it was crazy to think Tanny even thought about personnel. The past two off seasons fly in the face of that. Maybe he watched himself on hard knocks and started to think he was pretty good. A GM needs to have a plan, and to surround himself with people that he trusts to carry that out. I mean no GM can do everything, but he needs to know what he does well, and what he needs to stay out of. The most important thing is to find the right people, trust them to do their jobs. I thought our scouting department was pretty good, and that Rex, and the OC would decide what we needed, and go from there. A new OC, right tackle, receiver, OLBs, and a blocking TE is what we needed. We went with Sporano, Tebow, Hunter, Cumberland, and Schilens. I don't think these decisions were made by the scouting department, or part of any sort of a plan. Tanny, I'm afraid does need to go, or just demoted, and we need a GM with a plan.
    Tanny and Bradway need to go. Another demotion is not an option, IF Tanny is demoted you will have TWO former Jet GMs still in the organization, that is insanity. This organization needs new blood at the top. Keeping guys around who could not do their job is futile, it is Business 101.

  10. #30
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    we need a legit football guy at the top and the team needs to be run like a professional organization. Tanny is a cap guy who can't evaluate players and rex is a buffoon. Time to change the culture

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by barkus View Post
    we need a legit football guy at the top and the team needs to be run like a professional organization. Tanny is a cap guy who can't evaluate players and rex is a buffoon. Time to change the culture
    I concur. The entire FO and coaching staff needs to go....and it will. It's just a matter of when, either this year or next. The FO can't evaluate talent and Rex is not a HC.

    Stop the madness Woody, get rid of these losers and bring in football people to run your team.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    I used to think it was crazy to think Tanny even thought about personnel. The past two off seasons fly in the face of that. Maybe he watched himself on hard knocks and started to think he was pretty good. A GM needs to have a plan, and to surround himself with people that he trusts to carry that out. I mean no GM can do everything, but he needs to know what he does well, and what he needs to stay out of. The most important thing is to find the right people, trust them to do their jobs. I thought our scouting department was pretty good, and that Rex, and the OC would decide what we needed, and go from there. A new OC, right tackle, receiver, OLBs, and a blocking TE is what we needed. We went with Sporano, Tebow, Hunter, Cumberland, and Schilens. I don't think these decisions were made by the scouting department, or part of any sort of a plan. Tanny, I'm afraid does need to go, or just demoted, and we need a GM with a plan.


    Nice to see you look at the team objectively. Welcome to the club!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post


    Nice to see you look at the team objectively. Welcome to the club!
    Are there really people out there who think Tannenbaum should NOT be fired?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by barkus View Post
    we need a legit football guy at the top and the team needs to be run like a professional organization. Tanny is a cap guy who can't evaluate players and rex is a buffoon. Time to change the culture
    Spot on!. Woody is lucky.....most people who own/run billion $ companies seldom get second chances to correct major mistakes. After the debacle that occurred at the end of last season, with both GM and coach clueless as to how fractured the team was, both should have been fired. This year has removed any lingering doubt as to how incompetent they both really are, and Woody has to make the move. You CAN NOT have idiots running your company if you want to succeed, pure and simple.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    You could make a fair argument that wilson is playing out of position as a slot CB too.

    Look I know that this is a team game, but the Pats secondary has been atrocious for 2 years and mcourty has to be included in that. Even if when all is said and done mcourty is "better": then wilson, the margin is so small that its worth a fair discussion. Which is my point....there is such a glass half empty mentality with out picks here. Just because espn kissed the pats a$$es and praises their picks as all-pros after 6 games, doesnt mean the players are ACTUALLY great.

    Wilson is no all-pro, but he also isnt as bad as people here think he is. There are plenty of first round picks that are out of the league in 3 years....
    Why would you say Wilson is out of position at slot. I think his short area quickness is his best trait. It is when he is asked to run deep is when he gets burned.


    McCourty has been in the league for three years who cares what espn said of him as a rookie.

    Atrocious is stating it mildly

  16. #36
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    I think it has been obvious that Rex has a huge influence on the draft. That is why I have said that Rex could succeed as a head coach if the Jets brought in an old tough curmodgeon of a gm that told him to get his ass out of all personnel and draft meetings.

    Ask him what type of offense or defense he wants to run and then tell him to gtfo and stay away from player acquisition. Rex has shown that he thinks he can make due with lousy players. A huge fault that coaches have.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Couple thoughts on this thread which is a great topic.

    For those arguing Rex shouldnt have too much of a say in personnel, I agree, that was not why he was brought in here as he had zero experience with that.

    However, the more important question is if not rex then WHO?

    We have zero structure in this organization from the top down.

    1. Woody has no clue about football
    2. Tanny is a numbers guy at heart
    3. Clinkscales quit because things were so bad
    4. Bradway is listed as a "Senior personnel executive"

    At the end of the day, neither clinkscales nor bradway should be in a position to overrule Rex. They give information to the GM, HC and the Head of Football Operations. Unfortunately for us, we dont have anyone that role, so we have scouts giving information (and ultimately disagreeing with) to a Non-Player Personnel GM and a HC with no personnel experience. That is a recipe for failure.

    Now, while the 2010 draft hasnt been great, our last 2 drafts have been far from terrible. You cant hit on every pick, and while Wilson isnt Revis, he is certainly better then the prince akumuras or the devin mcourtys of the world. McKnight made the probowl as a KR and its not his fault the staff has stuck with ineffective greene for this long.

    After that, I find it hard to criticize wilkerson (starting to be a real force), ellis (6'5 NTs need time to learn the position), and kerley who has been an excellent find in the 5th round.

    This year coples has started to come on, and hill and demario (while both have faults) should be starters for us for years to come.

    Like any business, the fault usually lies at the top, and Woody has not put ANY structure in place for the type of team, lockerroom, and organization that he wants to run. It shouldnt be Rex's fault that when he looks around the room there simply isnt anyone there to make a smart, football decision
    Excellent post.

    The only comment I would add is that a portion of the culpability for talent procurement should go to Rex because he is partially responsible for what is brought in.

  18. #38
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    Rex is a good defensive coordinator and motivator, but he should not be involved in offensive personnel decisions. The guy clearly has no idea what he's doing on that side of the ball and it shows in the offensive rankings (30th in the NFL)

    His belief in Sanchez is comical and the fact that he holds Tebow in higher regard than McElroy is even more comical.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsCrazey View Post
    Rex is a good defensive coordinator and motivator, but he should not be involved in offensive personnel decisions. The guy clearly has no idea what he's doing on that side of the ball and it shows in the offensive rankings (30th in the NFL)

    His belief in Sanchez is comical and the fact that he holds Tebow in higher regard than McElroy is even more comical.
    Well...when he has the players he is good. The sign of a real DC/OC is how they manage an avergae team.

    His defense has been awful and he has been the DRAFT man. SO... I am starting to think he is average as a DC as well.

  20. #40
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    Just put the hammer down on both these clowns. It's time for a change. We keep the same FO and coaching staff for another year, and we're guaranteed an even worse year next year. Gotta start planning for the future now and tank the rest of the games and get the top pick. Let's get Barkley and hope for the best.


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