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Thread: Personnel decisions

  1. #1
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    Personnel decisions

    Yesterday, Fatcessa stated as fact, that Rex has a big say in personnel decisions.

    This is interesting, because many here have pointed out that the drafting and personnel decisions were much better under Mangini. To me, this means that either Mangini was the brains behind the operation, or that Tannenbaum is allowing Rex too much say in personnel decisions.

    I think personnel is the problem with the team. Rex is a good coach. He's shown what he can do with a capable roster. But maybe he should stay the hell away from personnel decisions.

    Discuss!

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    Or Mangini and his staff were better at installing discipline and developing players. Pretty safe to say that is a fact too.

    Rex needs to go ASAP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by detectivekimble View Post
    Yesterday, Fatcessa stated as fact, that Rex has a big say in personnel decisions.

    This is interesting, because many here have pointed out that the drafting and personnel decisions were much better under Mangini. To me, this means that either Mangini was the brains behind the operation, or that Tannenbaum is allowing Rex too much say in personnel decisions.

    I think personnel is the problem with the team. Rex is a good coach. He's shown what he can do with a capable roster. But maybe he should stay the hell away from personnel decisions.

    Discuss!
    Drafts under REX have really been below average. BUT...his ability to develop the talent is as bad as his ability to identify. Whether that's REX or not?


    Not sure he is a good coach.....he is barely over 500 as a coach and remove 2010 and well below.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Or Mangini and his staff were better at installing discipline and developing players. Pretty safe to say that is a fact too.

    Rex needs to go ASAP!
    What's your take on Rex's alleged involvement in personnel decisions? Usually, Fatcessa is pretty accurate with these things.

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    inb4 John "Terminator" Connor

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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Drafts under REX have really been below average. BUT...his ability to develop the talent is as bad as his ability to identify. Whether that's REX or not?


    Not sure he is a good coach.....he is barely over 500 as a coach and remove 2010 and well below.
    2010 counts.

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    Just goes to show you just how incompetent Tanny truly is as a GM.
    I think Francessa was spot on yesterday in saying Tanny will probably save his job bye going back to Woody (with his tail between his legs), and telling him that itís all Rexís fault that theyíre in this mess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by canadianjetsfan View Post
    Just goes to show you just how incompetent Tanny truly is as a GM.
    I think Francessa was spot on yesterday in saying Tanny will probably save his job bye going back to Woody (with his tail between his legs), and telling him that itís all Rexís fault that theyíre in this mess.
    Did you catch him talking about how Tannenbaum and the Jets FO are known as liars throughout the league? Maybe Pete Kendall was on to something.

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    only way woody can fix this mess is to fire rex and tanny and start new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by detectivekimble View Post
    What's your take on Rex's alleged involvement in personnel decisions? Usually, Fatcessa is pretty accurate with these things.
    It's been reported he is. Just as Mangini probably was too

    But it doesn't mean HE is the one MAKING the final decision

    It's pretty safe to say every coach is involved in personnel decisions don't you think.

    Coach goes to GM/FO and says he'd like another CB or or faster S or whatever. They all discuss and decide how to move forward. Or GM comes to coach and says player X is available any thoughts on picking him up

    GM has final day.

    It's up to the HC and his staff to coach, teach (coach up), discipline and put the players in position to succeed.

    It's clearly obvious the discipline, organization and coaching up of the Jets has deteriorated under Rex.

    As for Francesa. I heard him the other day say he's not as clued in on the Jets inner workings as years past.

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    The game has passed Rex by these last 2 years. Either Rex gets on board in understanding that you win with offense and a bend don't break defense that capitalizes on mistakes, or he's gonna end up back a s a DC. Ground and pound is archaic and obsolete.

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    Anyone who's seen the 1st round of the draft since 2010 and claims that they had no idea Rex Ryan had input into the team's personnel decisions is either an idiot or is lying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shuler82 View Post
    Anyone who's seen the 1st round of the draft since 2010 and claims that they had no idea Rex Ryan had input into the team's personnel decisions is either an idiot or is lying.
    Some funny reading...3 out 4 2010 picks were on the offensive side of the ball. Only 1 McKnight. seems to show true promise

    Draft Picks 2010: New York Jets Report Card
    BY ZACH BERGER (CORRESPONDENT) ON APRIL 24, 2010 7,149 reads 12
    Use your ← → (arrow) keys to browse more storiesNext

    Originally published on: http://www.mtrmedia.com/jetsjive (The best source on the web for Jets news and analysis)

    The Jets made some pretty surprising moves on the third day of the draft. Hereís some analysis and a grade for each of the draft picks and each of the roster moves they made over the last few days:

    Drafting Kyle Wilson (Grade: A-):

    The Boise State cornerback was rated as the best at his position by multiple teams on their draft boards. The Jets got great value with Wilson, drafting him 29th overall. They have some extreme depth in the secondary now, and there is some speculation that Cromartie might make the move to free safety, giving the Jets a stacked pass defense of Revis, Wilson, Cromartie, and Leonhard. There is also speculation that Wilson will play at nickel cornerback and Ryan confirmed that he will immediately start there as well as at punt returner. Imagine being a quarterback playing against this pass defense now. You look at your #1 receiver, but Revis is on him. You turn and glance as your #2 option, but Cromartie is all over him. Of course, your slot guy must be open. Wait, Kyle Wilson has shut him down as well. Where do you look? Your tight end will be covered too. It really is scary just thinking about it.

    Drafting Vladimir Ducasse (Grade- B)/Releasing Alan Faneca (Grade- C+):

    Obviously the Jets had planned on releasing Faneca after the draft as long as they found a viable replacement. They believe that Ducasse can be that guy. Faneca definitely lost a step over the past couple years and there is no doubt that he gave up a bunch of sacks last season. Maybe Matt Slauson (who the Jets drafted last year) and Vladimir Ducasse can do a better job than Faneca, but I think he is worth holding on to based purely on his leadership ability and the fact that he could mentor our younger linemen.

    Drafting Joe McKnight (Grade- B+)/Trading Leon Washington (Grade- B-):

    I canít really give legitimate analysis on the trade, which I will explain in a second, but I can analyze the draft pick. McKnight is a Washington-esque back, a player who can do it all: run the ball, return kicks, return punts, etc. It already seems as though Kyle Wilson will be the punt returner, but Iíd expect McKnight to step in for Leon Washington at kick returner. In the fourth round, McKnight was definitely a high value pick. Now I have to explain why I donít think I can analyze the Washington trade. Mike Tannenbaum and Rex Ryan obviously know something that I donít. If Leon Washington was in great shape and his injury had recovered perfectly, he would still be a Jet. On the other hand, if Leonís recovery didnít go well or if he canít cut/juke/spin/accelerate as well as he used to be able to, the Jets would be stupid not to trade him. The fact that they traded him and a seventh-round selection for a fifth-round selection leads me to believe that the latter is the case, but like I said, weíll talk about this one once Washington has had some run with Seattle.

    Drafting John Conner (Grade- A-):

    I am not going to pretend I know anything about this kid, but my post-draft research leads me to believe that he is a low-risk, high-upside draft pick that will be able to step in for the veteran fullback Tony Richardson (who is 38 years old) when his tenure with the Jets ends. Conner has one of the best fullbacks to ever play the game at his disposal. He can learn from T-Rich and hopefully the 240-lb back can be the future fullback of the team. ESPN had him ranked as the second-best at his position in the draft so letís hope they arenít lying.

    OVERALL DRAFT WEEK GRADE- B+:

    The Jets lost a running back and an offensive guard this week. Both of those guys are very likely to be worse than they have been in the past in the coming year, one because of injury and one because of age. They added a replacement for both of those players, and while only one of those replacements (Joe McKnight) will actually step in and play this year, Vladimir Ducasse does seem to be extremely promising and the Haitian offensive guard shows a lot of potential. The Jets also picked up some depth at fullback and definitely made some smart moves this week, adding depth on the offensive line and in the run game, definitely intelligent moves with LaDainian Tomlinson, Tony Richardson, and Alan Faneca all just a few years shy of retirement. I think Mike Tannenbaum exercised some restraint this week and actually managed to remain relatively quiet and stay out of the headlines over the last few days. Rather than go in with a bang, Tannenbaum recognized how deep the draft is and didnít trade up until the fourth round, remaining content with the draft choices the Jets had in both the first and third rounds. Absolutely a positive draft week for the team. Donít let the Washington and Faneca moves bother you; it was partially about money and partially about football, but I think MT made the right choices yet again.

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    Tanny has the final say in personnel decisions.

    Bradway, his pro personnel people and his scouts give their opinion, Rex and his coaches give theirs. Tanny makes the decision on the most persuasive argument. While he does not evaluate on field talent he is responsible for evaluating the effectiveness of those that do.

    This is how it is done with every GM that is not a "football" guy either as a player, coach. or scout. Unless the contract says that the HC has final say which is very rare.
    BB, Holmgren, Shanahan in Denver, Shula, Parcells with the jets.
    Last edited by patman; 11-15-2012 at 06:44 AM.

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    BOTH Rex and Tanny need to go. I don't care who has more say in players.

    We also need to completely overhaul our scouting dept.

    And we need to change the logo and colors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Tanny has the final say in personnel decisions.

    Bradway, his pro personnel people and his scouts give their opinion, Rex and his coaches give theirs. Tanny makes the decision on the most persuasive argument. While he does not evaluate on field talent he is responsible for evaluating the effectiveness of those that do.

    This is how it is done with every GM that is not a "football" guy either as a player, coach. or scout. Unless the contract says that the HC has final say which is very rare.
    BB, Holmgren, Shanahan in Denver, Shula, Parcells with the jets.
    I don't disagree with what you say. But what I bolded is the problem. I would say that Rex will win the majority of these. He is a very big personality and in the end he gets his way. His contract may not give him final say over personnel but the impressionable, amoeba-like FO are pushovers for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by detectivekimble View Post
    Yesterday, Fatcessa stated as fact, that Rex has a big say in personnel decisions.

    This is interesting, because many here have pointed out that the drafting and personnel decisions were much better under Mangini. To me, this means that either Mangini was the brains behind the operation, or that Tannenbaum is allowing Rex too much say in personnel decisions.

    I think personnel is the problem with the team. Rex is a good coach. He's shown what he can do with a capable roster. But maybe he should stay the hell away from personnel decisions.

    Discuss!
    Personnel decisions have not been dreadful for the most part... but none of the players they have selected in the draft have improved here.

    Player development is a glaring weakness with the Jets... and I don't know who's really to blame.

    I'm sure the coach gets plenty of say as far as drafting goes. I'm sure Mangini had some say as well. As they should. Not the final decision, but they opinion def. matters.

    Rex has shown that he has no grasp of offense... and it's questionable if he even has any interest in that side of the ball, which would explain the dramatic discrepency the draft strategy the past few years. They have pretty much neglected offense early in the draft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    I don't disagree with what you say. But what I bolded is the problem. I would say that Rex will win the majority of these. He is a very big personality and in the end he gets his way. His contract may not give him final say over personnel but the impressionable, amoeba-like FO are pushovers for him.
    Plus as a new head coach you want to give him what he believes he needs to start him off. IMO where Tanny failed was his borrowing of future cap dollars in order to get a quick return. Now it is certainly up to debate on whether this was done on Woody's behest to sell PSLs is another matter. But The GM is responsible for the long term health of the team, the coach concerns himself with the short term.

    Regardless of whether Bradway or Rex wanted a certain guy, and he chose right or wrong is less damming to him as a GM than the mess the jets are in with the cap. This last offseason they had holes and were not able to address them or put one year band aids on them, now the jets are still in poor cap shape have even more holes and even less cap space. This is his fault alone, and can not be attributed to Rex being a gorilla in a china shop.

    Every GM makes bad personnel descions, (BB makes plenty) but it is credit card mentality that makes him a failure. It even permeates down to this site when you see fans post to pay a player the the minimum now and deal with the consequences later, or to convert salary to SB on 30 year old players as a valid way to manage a cap. A lot of ans here thought he was acap genius for keeping the core together where a lot of other people thought one or even two players would have to be let go.
    Well now we know how he did it, by giving Revis a two year extension but paying for it over 6 years, By guaranteeing Scott, Pace and Sanchez contracts when they were not even producing to the contract that they signed for.
    Last edited by patman; 11-15-2012 at 07:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Personnel decisions have not been dreadful for the most part... but none of the players they have selected in the draft have improved here.

    Player development is a glaring weakness with the Jets... and I don't know who's really to blame.

    I'm sure the coach gets plenty of say as far as drafting goes. I'm sure Mangini had some say as well. As they should. Not the final decision, but they opinion def. matters.

    Rex has shown that he has no grasp of offense... and it's questionable if he even has any interest in that side of the ball, which would explain the dramatic discrepency the draft strategy the past few years. They have pretty much neglected offense early in the draft.
    Couple thoughts on this thread which is a great topic.

    For those arguing Rex shouldnt have too much of a say in personnel, I agree, that was not why he was brought in here as he had zero experience with that.

    However, the more important question is if not rex then WHO?

    We have zero structure in this organization from the top down.

    1. Woody has no clue about football
    2. Tanny is a numbers guy at heart
    3. Clinkscales quit because things were so bad
    4. Bradway is listed as a "Senior personnel executive"

    At the end of the day, neither clinkscales nor bradway should be in a position to overrule Rex. They give information to the GM, HC and the Head of Football Operations. Unfortunately for us, we dont have anyone that role, so we have scouts giving information (and ultimately disagreeing with) to a Non-Player Personnel GM and a HC with no personnel experience. That is a recipe for failure.

    Now, while the 2010 draft hasnt been great, our last 2 drafts have been far from terrible. You cant hit on every pick, and while Wilson isnt Revis, he is certainly better then the prince akumuras or the devin mcourtys of the world. McKnight made the probowl as a KR and its not his fault the staff has stuck with ineffective greene for this long.

    After that, I find it hard to criticize wilkerson (starting to be a real force), ellis (6'5 NTs need time to learn the position), and kerley who has been an excellent find in the 5th round.

    This year coples has started to come on, and hill and demario (while both have faults) should be starters for us for years to come.

    Like any business, the fault usually lies at the top, and Woody has not put ANY structure in place for the type of team, lockerroom, and organization that he wants to run. It shouldnt be Rex's fault that when he looks around the room there simply isnt anyone there to make a smart, football decision

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by detectivekimble View Post
    Rex is a good coach.

    Discuss!
    Rex is an awful coach

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