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Thread: Just in Time

  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Tiny Israel with it's 5 million Jews, a Country the size of New Jersey is the bully? They are surrounded by a billion hostile savges, they have been attacked time and time again in all our wars of extremination by Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq and the rest. Yet somehow you see them as the bully? Mayhaps your Irish brethren alongside the rest of your EU comrads don't like to see the Jews as anything but a weakling to be persecuted anytime you need a scapegoat for your own misfortunes?
    You know this isn't helping, right?

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by sunmou View Post
    Yawn, chicken or egg, which came first. I feel bad for your struggles with mental illness, I really do.
    This is idiotic. There is no justification for the deliberate murder of innocents. If you can't agree with that basic premise, say so, and then kindly **** off because it's not really worth discussing things any further with someone who disagrees with that.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    Anyone who defends Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran or terrorists is a fool.
    They are uncivilized savages. Moslems have been savages and animals since the inception of their crude religion.
    The only ones that are not savages are the ones who don't have the initiative.
    AND, they would cut the head off any "infidel" at the drop of a hat.

    Israel plays with a heavy hand becasue that's how you should deal with with punks. Punch them in the mouth 5 times in 3 seconds.
    Again, not helpful - and not true. The fact is that in the middle ages, "Moslems" were far more scientifically inclined and civilized than the Christian world.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    Could you explain to me how "Zionist principles are based on race" when there are black Jews, caucasian Jews, oriental jews - Jews of every race?

    Can you explain to me why "national self-determination for Palestinians!" is not a "racist" rallying cry, but "national self-determination for Jews!" is?

    Bonus points if you can manage to do so without contradicting yourself.
    Eagerly awaiting the response.

    Well said.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    Only someone with no knowledge of international law could call the blockade of Gaza "collective punishment"
    Funny that the Red Cross has issued statements using the same exact words as that fellow in the article. Guess they have no knowledge of international law, they have no idea how things are on the ground, and they've been bought by the massive Palestinian lobby.

    It is collective punishment, it is a humanitarian crisis, and Israel is an apartheid state. They're not pretty words, but that's just the way things are over there.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    So your position is that Israel hasn't expanded settlements into East Jerusalem and the West Bank they are simply taking it as a negotiation with some future unknown government that won't fire rockets into Israel in exchange for some other parcels of land that Israel chooses to exchange for the land Israel wants?

    I don't recognize the Iranian or Syrian governments theft of Jewish property any more then I do Isreal's right of theft of none Jewish property.

    Calling these people savages who should be wiped out and then hiding behind land swaps doesn't do it for me. There is more going on here then simply savages and security.
    I think that characterizing Hamas terrorists as savages that should be wiped out is a fair assesment. And yes my position is that the Israelis over the past 20 years have reduced the number of settlements. As for land swaps there are Palestinian villages within Israel ane some Israeli villages in the west bank area. In a negotiated settlement among reasonable people that land would be swapped. Of course this would have to be worked out with some future palestinian government that actually wanted a peace agreement. As I said earlier and you know very well their current leadership has no interest in a negotiated settlement. As a matter of fact they have never negotiated anything with the Israelis nor have they ever conceded a single demand including their primary demand that Israel be elliminated from existence.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    You know this isn't helping, right?
    I thought it was a proper response to a person that refers to tiny Israel with its 6 million people as a bully of the Arabs. Essentially it is like if a small kid in jr high got in to a fight with a bunch of high school kids that ganged up on him but somehow that undersized jr hs kid had learned mma and puts a beating on the gang of high schoolers. Then that gang goes crying to the principal and says the little kid was bulyong them. It is ridiculous.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeanPatsFan View Post
    Israel need to tell the rest of the world to get bent and go in and annihilate these filthy unwashed savages....
    Well, THERE's a simple, easy-breezy solution.

    DeanPatsFan, eh? Imagine that.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by marano View Post
    Who gives a **** what you think? Israel sucks ass and I don't know why any American feels any loyalty to support them.
    Your ignorance is burning my nose hairs. Dayum.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Don't care.

    Stop killing each other over pieces of the ground.

    It's dumb. The rest of the world is tired of the crap.


    Sent from my 8.6 acre property with 4 bedroom house with waterfront views and low utility costs because of the gas well on my property using fireworks...
    Nasser will be remembered as quite a figure, in having the truce with Israel. The fact remains that it is a hot situation that CAN be worked out; and only Israel and her neighbors can work it out. It'll take decades, but be worth it. Fatal skirmishes will continue to emerge and the youth will grow older, take charge and make changes. Time marches on.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Shoot down the rockets they can target the rocket attacks where they can and minize the civilian damage when they can.
    Israel has been doing that. Israel has shown incredible restraint. I don't think there are too many nations that would put up with the **** Israel has put up with for 25+ years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Keep pushing for peace as hard as they can.
    You say this as if Israel hasn't done everything it can, short of national suicide.

    Stop the settlements stop the blockades, negiotate in good faith for a reasonable solution for both sides.

    Are you comfortable using the word like "reasonable" and terms like "good faith" when referring to Hamas?

    Do you really think Hamas and Israel share a morally relative equality?

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Frequent Flyer View Post
    Israel has been doing that. Israel has shown incredible restraint. I don't think there are too many nations that would put up with the **** Israel has put up with for 25+ years.



    You say this as if Israel hasn't done everything it can, short of national suicide.

    Stop the settlements stop the blockades, negiotate in good faith for a reasonable solution for both sides.

    Are you comfortable using the word like "reasonable" and terms like "good faith" when referring to Hamas?

    Do you really think Hamas and Israel share a morally relative equality?
    One side Israel is a civilized nation, the other side that we would like to behave like a civilized nation has a very uncivil government structure in Hamas. I only expect the civilized nation with all its economic and military might to operate in good faith toward some future civilized neighbor. I don't expect them to take property that doesn't belong to them and inflict more pain then is necessary on their neighbors simply because they can. I do expect them to defend themselves.

    The Queen of England just met with a murdering scum IRA operative who should have been in jail for the rest of his life in any moral, legal western country. I would have never expected that to happen in my life time.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 11-27-2012 at 08:15 AM.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    One side Israel is a civilized nation, the other side that we would like to behave like a civilized nation .
    Where is the evidence in that?
    What can you possibly point to that would indicate this mythical place "palestine" would act like a civilized nation, given the opportunity?

    Point to a precedent somewhere in the middle east that a skeptic like me can look at and say, "yeah thats a good yardstick to measure success".

    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    I only expect the civilized nation with all its economic and military might to operate in good faith toward some future civilized neighbor.
    Again, what rational, sane person anticipates "palestine" being a civilized neighbor, given the opportunity? Where do you see evidence of that? A precedent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    I don't expect them to take property that doesn't belong to them.
    Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I recall somewhere along the line Israel has tried to give the gaza strip back to Egypt and Egypt didn't want it. As for the West bank, this is a no mans land that once belonged to Jordan, but Jordan refuses to police it. Hundreds of thousands of "refugees" (and the decendents-- this is going back fifty years LMAO) in the west bank were expelled from Jordan and will be shot if they try to return.

    Isreal has tried to relinquish control of these areas, and every time they do, these areas resort to lawlessness, violence and terrorism. Why? Because it's not about land, it's about strategic advantage-- either Israel controls it as a means of defending itself, or the "palestinians" control it to perpetually launch rockets willy nilly at Isreal.

    The idea that Israel wants responsiblity for these dysfunctional people is laughable. It simply has no choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    and inflict more pain then is necessary on their neighbors simply because they can.
    Oh? Is that what Israel is doing? Inflicting pain on their neighbor because they can? Really?

    C'mon now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    The Queen of England just met with a murdering scum IRA operative who should have been in jail for the rest of his life in any moral, legal western country. I would have never expected that to happen in my life time.
    The last time I looked on a map, Northern Ireland is still in the United Kingdom, flying the Union Jack. The IRA surrendered. They failed.

    Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda all want Israel wiped off the planet. And when Iran gets a nuclear weapon, it will. They are succeeding.
    Last edited by Frequent Flyer; 11-27-2012 at 09:00 AM.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    Again, not helpful - and not true. The fact is that in the middle ages, "Moslems" were far more scientifically inclined and civilized than the Christian world.


    They did have a period of enlightenment from about 900 through 1350 when they were more "advanced" than the West in the sciences. That is true. BUT, their super aggression NEVER subsided. Their effort to conquer extended over a large geography and they were hardly accepting of those conquered.
    They have never relented in their blood lust whereas the West gradually became less so from an aggressive perspective.
    The single thread of consistency in Islam from its founding to now has been the spread of death - as an organized theme.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    They did have a period of enlightenment from about 900 through 1350 when they were more "advanced" than the West in the sciences. That is true. BUT, their super aggression NEVER subsided. Their effort to conquer extended over a large geography and they were hardly accepting of those conquered.
    They have never relented in their blood lust whereas the West gradually became less so from an aggressive perspective.
    The single thread of consistency in Islam from its founding to now has been the spread of death - as an organized theme.
    Islam was a viral opportunist who emerged from the wreckage that two dominant world powers, Persia and the Roman Empire, left in its wake after destroying each other in wars.

    Almost all their "achievements" in mathematics and science were inherited from ancient Babylonians. For example, the number zero (Babylonians were using it thousands of years before muhamad was born).

    I'll give them credit for architectural advances, though. Their building were cutting edge for that time.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciaran View Post
    Funny that the Red Cross has issued statements using the same exact words as that fellow in the article. Guess they have no knowledge of international law, they have no idea how things are on the ground, and they've been bought by the massive Palestinian lobby.
    You do know that's nothing more than an invalid appeal to authority, right? Unless, of course, the Red Cross has conducted some sort of legal investigation applying settled principles of international law.

    Here, on the other hand, is the conclusion of an actual such investigation:

    72.
    The Panel notes in this regard that the uncertain legal status of Gaza under international law cannot mean that Israel has no right to self-defence against armed attacks directed toward its territory.255 The Israeli report to the Panel makes it clear that the naval blockade as a measure of the use of force was adopted for the purpose of defending its territory and population,256 and the Panel accepts that was the case. It was designed as one way to prevent weapons reaching Gaza by sea and to prevent such attacks to be launched from the sea.257 Indeed there have been various incidents in which ships carrying weapons were intercepted by the Israeli authorities on their way to Gaza.258 While the attacks have not completely ceased since the time of the imposition of the naval blockade,259 their scale and intensity has much decreased over time.260 While this decrease might also be due to other factors,261 a blockade in those circumstances is a legitimate exercise of the right of self-defence. Although a blockade by definition imposes a restriction on all maritime traffic, given the relatively small size of the blockade zone and the practical difficulties associated with other methods of monitoring vessels (such as by search and visit),262 the Panel is not persuaded that the naval blockade was a disproportionate measure for Israel to have taken in response to the threat it faced.

    Final Report of the Palmer Committee of the UN


    The bottom line is a naval blockade is a legal response to attack from within the blockaded territory and not "collective punishment". That is a well-settled principle of international law and the difficulty arises when people without knowledge of international law - such as yourself - conflate the concept of "collective punishment" with "anything that impacts civilians as well as combatants." The two simply are not the same, and I challenge you to articulate any basis - other than the ipse dixit statements of folks who think like you - for arguing otherwise given the relevant legal principles involved.

    It is collective punishment, it is a humanitarian crisis
    I guess you don't care that the Red Cross disagrees with you on that one, huh?

    In an interview with the Israeli army spokesman, Mathilde Redmatn, deputy director of the Red Cross in Gaza, clearly declared for all those willing to listen that there "is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza."
    "If you go to the supermarket, there are products. There are restaurants and a nice beach," noted Redmatn.
    and Israel is an apartheid state.
    Yep - an Apartheid state with Arabs in parliament, Arab ministers, freedom of religion and speech, Arab judges, Arab high ranking members of the police, Arab high ranking members of the army, Arabs required by law to be on the board of public institutions, a Supreme Court that ruled that Arabs must be allowed equal access to land owned by the Jewish National Fund (a charity founded to fund Jewish land purchases) . . .

    You're right, that's pretty much the hallmark of a racist apartheid state right there. I mean, if the participation of the arab minority in Israel's political life and government institutions and the protection of their rights by the Supreme Court isn't apartheid, I don't know what apartheid is!

    (Wait, reading that, I think I misspoke. Let me try again:

    I mean, if you think the participation of the arab minority in Israel's political life and government institutions and the protection of their rights by the Supreme Court is apartheid, you clearly don't know what apartheid is!

    Yep, that reads better)


    They're not pretty words, but that's just the way things are over there.
    Sure, as long as you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    I think that characterizing Hamas terrorists as savages that should be wiped out is a fair assesment.
    Hamas? Yes. Every Arab in the countries surrounding Israel? No. And you did the latter, not the former.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    One side Israel is a civilized nation, the other side that we would like to behave like a civilized nation has a very uncivil government structure in Hamas. I only expect the civilized nation with all its economic and military might to operate in good faith toward some future civilized neighbor. I don't expect them to take property that doesn't belong to them and inflict more pain then is necessary on their neighbors simply because they can. I do expect them to defend themselves.

    The Queen of England just met with a murdering scum IRA operative who should have been in jail for the rest of his life in any moral, legal western country. I would have never expected that to happen in my life time.
    If you want them to behave like a civilized nation, stop rewarding uncivilized behavior.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    You know this isn't helping, right?
    I guess teaching kids in schools throughout the middle east that Jews are the sons of monkeys and pigs is productive. Oh, that's right, we must show them our moral high ground and, of course they'll respect us and follow our ways. It's worked so far, way change now.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    You do know that's nothing more than an invalid appeal to authority, right? Unless, of course, the Red Cross has conducted some sort of legal investigation applying settled principles of international law.

    Here, on the other hand, is the conclusion of an actual such investigation:



    Final Report of the Palmer Committee of the UN


    The bottom line is a naval blockade is a legal response to attack from within the blockaded territory and not "collective punishment". That is a well-settled principle of international law and the difficulty arises when people without knowledge of international law - such as yourself - conflate the concept of "collective punishment" with "anything that impacts civilians as well as combatants." The two simply are not the same, and I challenge you to articulate any basis - other than the ipse dixit statements of folks who think like you - for arguing otherwise given the relevant legal principles involved.



    I guess you don't care that the Red Cross disagrees with you on that one, huh?




    Yep - an Apartheid state with Arabs in parliament, Arab ministers, freedom of religion and speech, Arab judges, Arab high ranking members of the police, Arab high ranking members of the army, Arabs required by law to be on the board of public institutions, a Supreme Court that ruled that Arabs must be allowed equal access to land owned by the Jewish National Fund (a charity founded to fund Jewish land purchases) . . .

    You're right, that's pretty much the hallmark of a racist apartheid state right there. I mean, if the participation of the arab minority in Israel's political life and government institutions and the protection of their rights by the Supreme Court isn't apartheid, I don't know what apartheid is!

    (Wait, reading that, I think I misspoke. Let me try again:

    I mean, if you think the participation of the arab minority in Israel's political life and government institutions and the protection of their rights by the Supreme Court is apartheid, you clearly don't know what apartheid is!

    Yep, that reads better)




    Sure, as long as you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about
    Great job here.

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