It is collective punishment, it is a humanitarian crisis, and Israel is an apartheid state. They're not pretty words, but that's just the way things are over there.
Stop the settlements stop the blockades, negiotate in good faith for a reasonable solution for both sides.
Are you comfortable using the word like "reasonable" and terms like "good faith" when referring to Hamas?
Do you really think Hamas and Israel share a morally relative equality?
The Queen of England just met with a murdering scum IRA operative who should have been in jail for the rest of his life in any moral, legal western country. I would have never expected that to happen in my life time.
Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 11-27-2012 at 08:15 AM.
What can you possibly point to that would indicate this mythical place "palestine" would act like a civilized nation, given the opportunity?
Point to a precedent somewhere in the middle east that a skeptic like me can look at and say, "yeah thats a good yardstick to measure success".
Isreal has tried to relinquish control of these areas, and every time they do, these areas resort to lawlessness, violence and terrorism. Why? Because it's not about land, it's about strategic advantage-- either Israel controls it as a means of defending itself, or the "palestinians" control it to perpetually launch rockets willy nilly at Isreal.
The idea that Israel wants responsiblity for these dysfunctional people is laughable. It simply has no choice.
Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda all want Israel wiped off the planet. And when Iran gets a nuclear weapon, it will. They are succeeding.
Last edited by Frequent Flyer; 11-27-2012 at 09:00 AM.
They did have a period of enlightenment from about 900 through 1350 when they were more "advanced" than the West in the sciences. That is true. BUT, their super aggression NEVER subsided. Their effort to conquer extended over a large geography and they were hardly accepting of those conquered.
They have never relented in their blood lust whereas the West gradually became less so from an aggressive perspective.
The single thread of consistency in Islam from its founding to now has been the spread of death - as an organized theme.
Almost all their "achievements" in mathematics and science were inherited from ancient Babylonians. For example, the number zero (Babylonians were using it thousands of years before muhamad was born).
I'll give them credit for architectural advances, though. Their building were cutting edge for that time.
Here, on the other hand, is the conclusion of an actual such investigation:
The Panel notes in this regard that the uncertain legal status of Gaza under international law cannot mean that Israel has no right to self-defence against armed attacks directed toward its territory.255 The Israeli report to the Panel makes it clear that the naval blockade as a measure of the use of force was adopted for the purpose of defending its territory and population,256 and the Panel accepts that was the case. It was designed as one way to prevent weapons reaching Gaza by sea and to prevent such attacks to be launched from the sea.257 Indeed there have been various incidents in which ships carrying weapons were intercepted by the Israeli authorities on their way to Gaza.258 While the attacks have not completely ceased since the time of the imposition of the naval blockade,259 their scale and intensity has much decreased over time.260 While this decrease might also be due to other factors,261 a blockade in those circumstances is a legitimate exercise of the right of self-defence. Although a blockade by definition imposes a restriction on all maritime traffic, given the relatively small size of the blockade zone and the practical difficulties associated with other methods of monitoring vessels (such as by search and visit),262 the Panel is not persuaded that the naval blockade was a disproportionate measure for Israel to have taken in response to the threat it faced.
Final Report of the Palmer Committee of the UN
The bottom line is a naval blockade is a legal response to attack from within the blockaded territory and not "collective punishment". That is a well-settled principle of international law and the difficulty arises when people without knowledge of international law - such as yourself - conflate the concept of "collective punishment" with "anything that impacts civilians as well as combatants." The two simply are not the same, and I challenge you to articulate any basis - other than the ipse dixit statements of folks who think like you - for arguing otherwise given the relevant legal principles involved.
I guess you don't care that the Red Cross disagrees with you on that one, huh?It is collective punishment, it is a humanitarian crisis
In an interview with the Israeli army spokesman, Mathilde Redmatn, deputy director of the Red Cross in Gaza, clearly declared for all those willing to listen that there "is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza."
"If you go to the supermarket, there are products. There are restaurants and a nice beach," noted Redmatn.Yep - an Apartheid state with Arabs in parliament, Arab ministers, freedom of religion and speech, Arab judges, Arab high ranking members of the police, Arab high ranking members of the army, Arabs required by law to be on the board of public institutions, a Supreme Court that ruled that Arabs must be allowed equal access to land owned by the Jewish National Fund (a charity founded to fund Jewish land purchases) . . .and Israel is an apartheid state.
You're right, that's pretty much the hallmark of a racist apartheid state right there. I mean, if the participation of the arab minority in Israel's political life and government institutions and the protection of their rights by the Supreme Court isn't apartheid, I don't know what apartheid is!
(Wait, reading that, I think I misspoke. Let me try again:
I mean, if you think the participation of the arab minority in Israel's political life and government institutions and the protection of their rights by the Supreme Court is apartheid, you clearly don't know what apartheid is!
Yep, that reads better)
Sure, as long as you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking aboutThey're not pretty words, but that's just the way things are over there.