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Thread: does sanchez need better experienced wrs to be a decent qb?

  1. #21
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    In his first year he was what? 13 TDs and 20 INTs? And the follwing year he was nothing great either. Thing is, he was bailed out by a top 5 D, top 5 running game and a better Oline.

    Sanchez has never been above average. He had some nice playoffs games. But he didnt carry us in the playoffs. None of his games were big time stats wise. Dilfer, Hasselback, etc, etc, etc made super bowls and won playoff games.

    4th year, same rookie mistakes! Sanchez sucks, did then and does now!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by w0mbat View Post
    Or maybe its not the receivers and its his fault for his awful performance in the red zone this year.



    Clean pocket

    Receiver wide open in middle of the field

    Result of the play is a pick.
    That play was embarassing:

    - Misses Hill wide open for a TD
    - Misses Keller when he was open for a TD

    Then throws it to Keller when it's too late.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    we are 3-6 we could accomplish 10-6. add some vets and spark. old guys rule!
    And they are gone, we are young this will be a boom or bust in 2 years.

  4. #24
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    Sanchez wasn't any good in 2009 and 2010 either. People act like he was great and now all of a sudden he stinks. He has always made poor decisions, has always been inaccurate, and has always had poor awareness. In 2009 he had an excuse b.c he was a rookie.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    He was pretty horrid in 09 too. 2010 wasn't any better then 2011 too. Non of those over aged hacks gives him better targets. The WRs are not to blame this year nor is the OL.
    Correct. Not to mention in those first two years he had the best running game and a top 3 defense to take away most of the pressure on him, and he still had a completion % of 53%. He is just not good, simple as that, and this pick will set this team back 4-5 more years, unless we get very lucky with a F.A QB, or hit a homerun with the next QB we pick.When you miss with a Gholston, it is a setback, when you miss with a horrible QB, it's a disaster.
    Last edited by section314; 11-16-2012 at 08:21 AM. Reason: mis-spelled word

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Sanchez wasn't any good in 2009 and 2010 either. People act like he was great and now all of a sudden he stinks. He has always made poor decisions, has always been inaccurate, and has always had poor awareness. In 2009 he had an excuse b.c he was a rookie.
    He wasn't great, but was better than now. He's clearly regressed.

    I remember his first game against Houston (game where Jenkins tossed the center like an annoying fly), he had a ridiculous 3rd down conversion rate , solid game and pocket awareness.

    I fear last year shell shocked him out of that forever.

  7. #27
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    Any mediocre QB would look better with quality WRs, of course. However it doesn't say much for the QB if other players are needed to elevate his decision making or performance.

  8. #28
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    Better receivers would help but against better teams, he would still have to make the plays and find the open guy to take it to the next step. I question whether he can do that.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by w0mbat View Post
    Or maybe its not the receivers and its his fault for his awful performance in the red zone this year.



    Clean pocket

    Receiver wide open in middle of the field

    Result of the play is a pick.
    THIS!

    The experiment is over. Draft a QB.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaoulDuke View Post
    That play was embarassing:

    - Misses Hill wide open for a TD
    - Misses Keller when he was open for a TD

    Then throws it to Keller when it's too late.
    Looking at this still frame shot, we wonder why Sanchez isnít throwing to Hill. My best guess is he doesnít see him or isnít convinced there isnít a defender heís not seeing.

    Off all Sanchez faults and whether better surrounding talent or coaching can make him a better QB, there are a few things Iíve seen consistently that canít really be coached. One of them is his height.

    Sanchez plays small. Heís not very tall for a QB, but that isnít a deal breaker if the coaching staff accounts for it in play calling (see Brees, Drew). He also has a slightly low release point (note many of his longer and mid-range throws have an arcing trajectory rather than thrown on a line). This combination is a big reason why he has so many batted balls. He can only throw on a line where he has a clear viewing/ throwing lane. Look at this photo; where does he have a clean line of sight? I bet he canít see Hill over the line, LBs and Umpire or at least not well enough to see there are no lurking defenders (of course being late to throw, there wound up being such a defender near KellerÖ). He throws where he can see, but too late.

    To really analyze what happened here and why he failed to throw to Hill Iíd need to see the frames prior to this still. In this one the LBs are already flowing to their left based upon Sanchez eyes and throwing motion; where were they seconds before? Was Hill supposed to be where he was or did he break off his route to find a soft spot?

    Opposing defenses know how best to defend Sanchez; keep him in the pocket where canít see clearly. Clog the middle and allow his only lanes wide, knowing his confidence level lends him to be a bit late on decision making and allowing defenders playing zone to recover or jump routes.

    The Jets should roll the pocket often enough to allow Sanchez to see more clearly; this does cut off 1/3 to Ĺ of the field, but in the pocket Sanchez canít use the whole field well anyway. For pocket passing, including quicker drops, the ball must come out on time to a spot or either throw it away or tuck and run. If the OL knows it only needs to hold for a few seconds they can fire low (thigh pad level) to keep DL hands down to limit batted balls. What the Jets donít want is Sanchez penned in the pocket trying to extend a play; defenses know a pick or a strip sack is a fair chance if they can manage that.

    A good run game would certainly help; I miss the stretch handoffs the Jets used to run with Martin years ago; they could also look enough like the beginning of a roll out pass play to keep the defense honest. But if the Jets are sticking by Sanchez, they need plays designed to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses, not fit into a scheme that doesnít suit him. They just donít have the talent on the O-line and at RB to dictate with the run to any decent defense. Pick your QB and design the offense around him. Theyíve picked their QB for better or worse, but not done the latter. He had a gunslinger mentality coming out of college, and theyíve asked him to be a game manager, which is not his strong suit. It worked adequately when the Jets could ďground & poundĒ; now that they canít (at least against a decent defense) it works poorly.

    In the end it comes back to coaching; if you donít have the players to run the scheme you prefer, you need to design your scheme around the players you have. The Jets havenít done that. Square peg, round hole, a stubborn & uncreative coaching staff wielding the hammer yields sawdust and wreckage.

  11. #31
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    Here we go again.....

    Build a team around Mark to support him, because he sucks gargantuan ballsax?

    Or start fresh with a QB that doesnt require such top notch weapons around him to be effective?

    Seems like a no brainer, unless youre a Sanchite.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jk816 View Post
    Looking at this still frame shot, we wonder why Sanchez isnít throwing to Hill. My best guess is he doesnít see him or isnít convinced there isnít a defender heís not seeing.

    Off all Sanchez faults and whether better surrounding talent or coaching can make him a better QB, there are a few things Iíve seen consistently that canít really be coached. One of them is his height.

    Sanchez plays small. Heís not very tall for a QB, but that isnít a deal breaker if the coaching staff accounts for it in play calling (see Brees, Drew). He also has a slightly low release point (note many of his longer and mid-range throws have an arcing trajectory rather than thrown on a line). This combination is a big reason why he has so many batted balls. He can only throw on a line where he has a clear viewing/ throwing lane. Look at this photo; where does he have a clean line of sight? I bet he canít see Hill over the line, LBs and Umpire or at least not well enough to see there are no lurking defenders (of course being late to throw, there wound up being such a defender near KellerÖ). He throws where he can see, but too late.

    To really analyze what happened here and why he failed to throw to Hill Iíd need to see the frames prior to this still. In this one the LBs are already flowing to their left based upon Sanchez eyes and throwing motion; where were they seconds before? Was Hill supposed to be where he was or did he break off his route to find a soft spot?

    Opposing defenses know how best to defend Sanchez; keep him in the pocket where canít see clearly. Clog the middle and allow his only lanes wide, knowing his confidence level lends him to be a bit late on decision making and allowing defenders playing zone to recover or jump routes.

    The Jets should roll the pocket often enough to allow Sanchez to see more clearly; this does cut off 1/3 to Ĺ of the field, but in the pocket Sanchez canít use the whole field well anyway. For pocket passing, including quicker drops, the ball must come out on time to a spot or either throw it away or tuck and run. If the OL knows it only needs to hold for a few seconds they can fire low (thigh pad level) to keep DL hands down to limit batted balls. What the Jets donít want is Sanchez penned in the pocket trying to extend a play; defenses know a pick or a strip sack is a fair chance if they can manage that.

    A good run game would certainly help; I miss the stretch handoffs the Jets used to run with Martin years ago; they could also look enough like the beginning of a roll out pass play to keep the defense honest. But if the Jets are sticking by Sanchez, they need plays designed to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses, not fit into a scheme that doesnít suit him. They just donít have the talent on the O-line and at RB to dictate with the run to any decent defense. Pick your QB and design the offense around him. Theyíve picked their QB for better or worse, but not done the latter. He had a gunslinger mentality coming out of college, and theyíve asked him to be a game manager, which is not his strong suit. It worked adequately when the Jets could ďground & poundĒ; now that they canít (at least against a decent defense) it works poorly.

    In the end it comes back to coaching; if you donít have the players to run the scheme you prefer, you need to design your scheme around the players you have. The Jets havenít done that. Square peg, round hole, a stubborn & uncreative coaching staff wielding the hammer yields sawdust and wreckage.
    Very intelligent post. The guy has so many flaws it's scary. The fact that the Jets supposed 'Scouts" didn't see this is even scarier. No wonder Mangini, who seems to have been a pretty good evaluator of talent, was so eager to trade the pick so we could draft Sanchez.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    He was pretty horrid in 09 too. 2010 wasn't any better then 2011 too. Non of those over aged hacks gives him better targets. The WRs are not to blame this year nor is the OL.
    Dumbest post of the year. Your name is fitting.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdJETSetter View Post
    Here we go again.....

    Build a team around Mark to support him, because he sucks gargantuan ballsax?

    Or start fresh with a QB that doesnt require such top notch weapons around him to be effective?

    Seems like a no brainer, unless youre a Sanchite.
    The million dollar question is who is that guy?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by w0mbat View Post
    Or maybe its not the receivers and its his fault for his awful performance in the red zone this year.



    Clean pocket

    Receiver wide open in middle of the field

    Result of the play is a pick.
    He locks into a receiver right away he never looks to others

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    The million dollar question is who is that guy?
    People around here seem to think those guys grow on trees.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by petejet View Post
    People around here seem to think those guys grow on trees.
    Im not a NCAA Draft guru.....so i cant drop any names on you....(i only know of 3 college QB's)

    I cant drop any upcoming free agent names, because i dont have, nor could i find that probable list....

    I just think it not a good approach to compensate for your QB's deficiencies by surrounding him with the best players to help him. Sure, give him some tools, but Mark is getting paid to be a top tier QB, and he is NOT that.

    If the team is going to have to surround him with the best talent to succeed, then how about negotiating your contract down to a reasonable level that represents your ability on the field.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by petejet View Post
    People around here seem to think those guys grow on trees.
    Yea, that was my point. It is easy to say "Oh, we need a guy who can win with anybody around him, and makes everyone better". Great, there are very few of those QBs walking around on the planet right now. There is only what? 5 of those guys in the league now? Its nice to say those things, but the reality for the other 27 teams in the league is that they need to build a team to win. Is Matt Ryan one of those guys? They seem to be putting a lot of weapons around him. Is Josh Freeman one of those guys? They have certainly put a lot around him. Flacco?

    Again, it is nice to say we need this or that, but the reality is that you still need a complete team to compete in this league.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Yea, that was my point. It is easy to say "Oh, we need a guy who can win with anybody around him, and makes everyone better". Great, there are very few of those QBs walking around on the planet right now. There is only what? 5 of those guys in the league now? Its nice to say those things, but the reality for the other 27 teams in the league is that they need to build a team to win. Is Matt Ryan one of those guys? They seem to be putting a lot of weapons around him. Is Josh Freeman one of those guys? They have certainly put a lot around him. Flacco?

    Again, it is nice to say we need this or that, but the reality is that you still need a complete team to compete in this league.
    I agree..there arent many of those qbs....As a jets fan, id like to experience that feeling before i die.

    I also agree we need a complete team...there are also very few of THOSE in the league. With the Salary cap, i think it is wasteful on spending primo $$$ at QB, WR, O line, AND RB just so we can hope Mark will step up to his lowly performances of yesteryear.

    Inserting tons of money to players that can maybe, MAYBE make Mark Sanchez better is just not a good approach imo....

    He is making Top Tier QB money, and he is in no way that player.

  20. #40
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    Sanchez needs to be able to make a simple dump off pass, but seems incapable.

    Sanchez needs to be able to throw a screen, but seems incapable.

    Sanchez needed to be coached up by a competent OC and QB coach, but that ship has sailed.

    The reality is that Sanchez can only throw a very limited number of passes, and does not have good field vision, so it is easy for defenses to clamp down on the routes, the ONLY routes that he is capable of throwing. It makes it exceedingly difficult for Sanchez to have success because he is so limited.

    Sanchez is a lost cause at this point. What Sanchez needs is a new team to play for as a moderately OK backup.
    Last edited by johnnysd; 11-16-2012 at 12:39 PM.

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