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Thread: By Bye Hostess

  1. #1
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    By Bye Hostess

    Announced their bankruptcy and the dissolving of their business today, apparently due to an inabillity to reach agreement with their labor union's demands.

    Report is ~18,000 layoffs effectively (pretty much) immediately.

    Word is they'll be selling off brand names and recipies, so the Twinkie will live on, as will Wonder Bread. But the business itself appears toasted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Announced their bankruptcy and the dissolving of their business today, apparently due to an inabillity to reach agreement with their labor union's demands.

    Report is ~18,000 layoffs effectively (pretty much) immediately.

    Word is they'll be selling off brand names and recipies, so the Twinkie will live on, as will Wonder Bread. But the business itself appears toasted.
    those evil and greedy unions!! They are responsible for this injustice as well as the overall degradation of Western Civilization as we know it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    those evil and greedy unions!! They are responsible for this injustice as well as the overall degradation of Western Civilization as we know it.

    Do you think it was wise of them to choose to lose their jobs rather than make a deal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    Do you think at all
    FYP

    (I'm sure it was a rhetorical question)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    Do you think it was wise of them to choose to lose their jobs rather than make a deal?

    They don't care. The gov will help them out. Richard Trumka (AFL-CIO pres and leg breaker) will come to the rescue.

    Unions are corrupt. Labor unions are thugs and vandals. Service unions (teachers, clerks) are just corrupt and parasitic. Police and fire are ok for some reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    Do you think it was wise of them to choose to lose their jobs rather than make a deal?
    What I think is that we do not know any of the details other then that we love hostess cupcakes and now we won't be able to eat them because the unions would not agree to go back to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    those evil and greedy unions!! They are responsible for this injustice as well as the overall degradation of Western Civilization as we know it.
    I have no idea if they were being evil or greedy or not.

    All I know is they're now all unemployed, or soon to be unemployed, in the worst economy sicne the Great Depression.

    Many of them may soon be on social welfare programs soon.

    Feel free to debate it from the Pro-Union Rah Rah position. I'm dissapointed a long-existing business has now failed, and 18,000 people choose unemployment over working.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    What I think is that we do not know any of the details other then that we love hostess cupcakes and now we won't be able to eat them because the unions would not agree to go back to work.
    You can know some other details if you read the articles.

    From other articles I have read there are multiple unions involved and some people did cross the lines, just not enough to allow them to resume business. One of the unions did make a deal...

    The Irving, Texas-based company had already reached a contract agreement with its largest union, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. But thousands of members in its second-biggest union went on strike late last week after rejecting in September a contract offer that cut wages and benefits. Officials for the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union say the company stopped contributing to workers' pensions last year.
    http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/national-...179643161.html

    http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/201158...to-be-laid-off

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    What it comes down to is they are selling their recipes and branding and someone, probably in a right to work state will be able to run the company(s) at a profit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    What it comes down to is they are selling their recipes and branding and someone, probably in a right to work state will be able to run the company(s) at a profit.
    Correct. There is excess capacity at the majority of national baked goods businesses. One or more (Friehoffers, Strohmens, etc) will scoop up the brand name and some machinery and continue the brand using their existing workforce. Those 18K workers from Hostess will be looking for jobs.

    No big suprise here. Most companies that offered defined benefits pensions will go through this in the coming years. Makes too much financial sense to clean house and restart with out the burden of paying for previous commitments that were not rooted in financial reality. Government will likely pick up the tab for the pensions.

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    Right to work States

    Right to Work States are great. I live in one. Right to Work is actually Orwellian meaning that in these states you have a right to work for what they say you will work for or not work at all. In these states you do not have the right to negotiate the best price for your product...your labor. Pay rates in "Right to Work" states are the lowest, along with almost everything else to include education levels. Corporate profits are highest though so that is a good thing. In Right to Work states workers get to work longer well into their golden years due to most places providing very little benefits and almost non-existent pension plans. Due to the fact that wages are kept to a minimum, most can't afford to save enough to retire so they get to keep working longer at least til they can suck off the government entitlements like social security and medicare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marano View Post
    Right to Work States are great. I live in one. Right to Work is actually Orwellian meaning that in these states you have a right to work for what they say you will work for or not work at all. In these states you do not have the right to negotiate the best price for your product...your labor. Pay rates in "Right to Work" states are the lowest, along with almost everything else to include education levels. Corporate profits are highest though so that is a good thing. In Right to Work states workers get to work longer well into their golden years due to most places providing very little benefits and almost non-existent pension plans. Due to the fact that wages are kept to a minimum, most can't afford to save enough to retire so they get to keep working longer at least til they can suck off the government entitlements like social security and medicare.
    Nothing more Orwellian than the meatgrinder called abortion, Chimpy, but try again w/ SS and Medicare....they are paid into from the day we all start working.

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    Well

    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    Nothing more Orwellian than the meatgrinder called abortion, Chimpy, but try again w/ SS and Medicare....they are paid into from the day we all start working.
    then why is everyone calling them entitlements?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Correct. There is excess capacity at the majority of national baked goods businesses. One or more (Friehoffers, Strohmens, etc) will scoop up the brand name and some machinery and continue the brand using their existing workforce. Those 18K workers from Hostess will be looking for jobs.

    No big suprise here. Most companies that offered defined benefits pensions will go through this in the coming years. Makes too much financial sense to clean house and restart with out the burden of paying for previous commitments that were not rooted in financial reality. Government will likely pick up the tab for the pensions.
    It's interesting you mention those two bakers. Based in the NE they consolidated with other well known brands/firms and passed through a number of US corporate ownership changes with the latest being a Canadian baking giant finding the US costs too dear and wheeling them to a Mexican owner.

    Tastykake was in the same unaffordable leaky boat, they recently found a new Southern US based owner and IBC will do likewise with a company like "Little Debbie"
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 11-16-2012 at 02:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marano View Post
    then why is everyone calling them entitlements?
    Who is everyone? Do you know what an entitlement program is?
    It's where public funds or a funded benefit is given to recipients based on some need/requirement such as Food Stamps and they don't have to pay for it.

    In contrast, Medicare and SS were paid into by most recipients so for those, even though a benefit is received, it was prepaid via payroll taxes. These recipients do not include the Illegal Alien/Immigrant Granny parasites who never paid a cent in to those systems but get benefits.

    Otherwise, workers would have had the funds to save or invest as they pleased. Retirement is still far off for me but a IRA or 401K with the
    funds I had involuntarily contributed, with interest, to these systems would be nice to have access to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marano View Post
    Right to Work States are great. I live in one. Right to Work is actually Orwellian meaning that in these states you have a right to work for what they say you will work for or not work at all. In these states you do not have the right to negotiate the best price for your product...your labor. Pay rates in "Right to Work" states are the lowest, along with almost everything else to include education levels. Corporate profits are highest though so that is a good thing. In Right to Work states workers get to work longer well into their golden years due to most places providing very little benefits and almost non-existent pension plans. Due to the fact that wages are kept to a minimum, most can't afford to save enough to retire so they get to keep working longer at least til they can suck off the government entitlements like social security and medicare.
    Once again you speak on a topic that you know nothing about. For a person living in a right to work state it would seem that you would know that workers there are free to unionize if they want to. The right to work designation simply means that they can not force other workers that don't want to unionize in to forcibly joining a union and getting their wages garnished. Of course I would have expected your rant based on imaginary facts after reading your earlier diatribe about how America created Israel in 1943. Much like rubbernecking at the scene of a traffic accident your posts are a horrible mess of made up statements and incomprehensible nonsense yet somehow I can't turn away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    those evil and greedy unions!! They are responsible for this injustice as well as the overall degradation of Western Civilization as we know it.

    18,000 people just lost their jobs a month before the holidays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    I have no idea if they were being evil or greedy or not.

    All I know is they're now all unemployed, or soon to be unemployed, in the worst economy sicne the Great Depression.

    Many of them may soon be on social welfare programs, while they work under the table, soon.

    Feel free to debate it from the Pro-Union Rah Rah position. I'm dissapointed a long-existing business has now failed, and 18,000 people choose unemployment over working.
    fixed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    I have no idea if they were being evil or greedy or not.

    All I know is they're now all unemployed, or soon to be unemployed, in the worst economy sicne the Great Depression.

    Many of them may soon be on social welfare programs soon.

    Feel free to debate it from the Pro-Union Rah Rah position. I'm dissapointed a long-existing business has now failed, and 18,000 people choose unemployment over working.
    No thank you on the invitation to debate this from the 'pro-union, rah, rah' position.

    Instead I will debate this from my usual position on all matters relating to unions; until real measures are taken to reign in the gross abuses of the system by mega-corporations, I feel strongly that unions should have a place at the table.

    However, IF the day ever comes when our government is not bought and paid for by mega-corporation (as it was by unions in decades past) then I would 100% be in favor of taking the teeth out of the union machines. Sadly, however, judging by recent events like the 'citizens' united ruling, we are moving further away from returning power to the actual citizens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Once again you speak on a topic that you know nothing about. For a person living in a right to work state it would seem that you would know that workers there are free to unionize if they want to. The right to work designation simply means that they can not force other workers that don't want to unionize in to forcibly joining a union and getting their wages garnished. Of course I would have expected your rant based on imaginary facts after reading your earlier diatribe about how America created Israel in 1943. Much like rubbernecking at the scene of a traffic accident your posts are a horrible mess of made up statements and incomprehensible nonsense yet somehow I can't turn away.
    Its affects are not as simple as saying that unions can not force other workers that don't want to unionize in to forcibly joining a union and getting their wages garnished.

    A February 2011 Economic Policy Institute study found:

    Wages in right-to-work states are 3.2% lower than those in non-RTW states, after controlling for a full complement of individual demographic and socioeconomic variables as well as state macroeconomic indicators. Using the average wage in non-RTW states as the base ($22.11), the average full-time, full-year worker in an RTW state makes about $1,500 less annually than a similar worker in a non-RTW state.

    The rate of employer-sponsored health insurance (ESI) is 2.6 percentage points lower in RTW states compared with non-RTW states, after controlling for individual, job, and state-level characteristics. If workers in non-RTW states were to receive ESI at this lower rate, 2 million fewer workers nationally would be covered.

    The rate of employer-sponsored pensions is 4.8 percentage points lower in RTW states, using the full complement of control variables in [the study's] regression model. If workers in non-RTW states were to receive pensions at this lower rate, 3.8 million fewer workers nationally would have pensions.


    http://www.epi.org/page/-/old/briefi...ngPaper299.pdf
    Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 11-16-2012 at 07:59 PM.

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