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Thread: The Jets can't even lose right

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    Yes. But the team's woes extend beyond just a single draft.

    I was hoping for Lattimore this year and Clowney next, but Lattimore's out.

    They won't draft another QB with Sanchez still on the roster this year. So they'll probably end up with Bernard or Randle because if RB isn't a priority then these guy's are delusional.

    You can probably trade down and grab one of them late in the first and begin attempting to build up a stock of picks in the '14 draft to get Clowney or Manziel.
    So you want to tank the rest of this season to get a high draft pick, but then trade down from that position?? I thought it was all about getting "no brainers" high in the draft that was the key to success? So which is it?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    So you want to tank the rest of this season to get a high draft pick, but then trade down from that position?? I thought it was all about getting "no brainers" high in the draft that was the key to success? So which is it?
    Research this year's draft.

    At the top you have Barkley (you want another QB outta USC????) and Gino Smith.

    Then you move down and since Lattimore blew out his leg, the RB's take a dive to the bottom of round 2.

    This team is headed for a pick in the teens, where there appears to be a glut of defensive and offensive linemen similar to last year.

    Trade down and grab a RB. They will not draft another QB with Sanchez still eating up that cap space and Tebow not getting a shot at starting (the owner wants Tebow to play.)

    Trade away whatever is needed to attain either Jacksonville or Cleveland's early round pick in 2013.

    Then combined with your own projected top 10 selection based on the presumed roster, package them together and potentially move to #1 or #2 overall based on who ends up at 1 or 2.

    Similar to what Washington did to get their guy this year (RG3.)

    But hey, you SOJF's are happy with being crapped on by the Pats over and over and never having a legit shot at #1 overall coming out of the AFC, that's fine by me. But when the 2013 Jets are struggling like the 2011 and 2012 Jets have just to stay ahead of .500 because they don't make big moves like this to get top-flight talent then maybe you'll think creatively instead of having faith in this bunch of tools who find playing for AFC Championships and losing and QB's who can't break 300 yards passing or 60% completion percentages are going to get the job done, then more power to you.

    I'm glued to reality. And here's a final thought to remember:

    A rookie QB on a terrible roster with essentially two defensive ends, a wide receiver, and nothing else are the top wildcard seed right now.

    A rookie QB who is, in his rookie season, WILL FINISH WITH BETTER NUMBERS THAN SANCHEZ'S BEST CAREER SEASON.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    Research this year's draft.

    At the top you have Barkley (you want another QB outta USC????) and Gino Smith.

    Then you move down and since Lattimore blew out his leg, the RB's take a dive to the bottom of round 2.

    This team is headed for a pick in the teens, where there appears to be a glut of defensive and offensive linemen similar to last year.

    Trade down and grab a RB. They will not draft another QB with Sanchez still eating up that cap space and Tebow not getting a shot at starting (the owner wants Tebow to play.)

    Trade away whatever is needed to attain either Jacksonville or Cleveland's early round pick in 2013.

    Then combined with your own projected top 10 selection based on the presumed roster, package them together and potentially move to #1 or #2 overall based on who ends up at 1 or 2.

    Similar to what Washington did to get their guy this year (RG3.)

    But hey, you SOJF's are happy with being crapped on by the Pats over and over and never having a legit shot at #1 overall coming out of the AFC, that's fine by me. But when the 2013 Jets are struggling like the 2011 and 2012 Jets have just to stay ahead of .500 because they don't make big moves like this to get top-flight talent then maybe you'll think creatively instead of having faith in this bunch of tools who find playing for AFC Championships and losing and QB's who can't break 300 yards passing or 60% completion percentages are going to get the job done, then more power to you.

    I'm glued to reality. And here's a final thought to remember:

    A rookie QB on a terrible roster with essentially two defensive ends, a wide receiver, and nothing else are the top wildcard seed right now.

    A rookie QB who is, in his rookie season, WILL FINISH WITH BETTER NUMBERS THAN SANCHEZ'S BEST CAREER SEASON.
    LOL...so what you are saying is that having a top pick is NOT a guarantee of success like you said earlier?? So tanking this season is really not as important as you made it out to be? I could have sworn you went on and on about drafting "No brainers" high in the draft. So now there are good players that can be drafted later in the first round?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    I don't think anybody realizes how bad that win was yesterday.

    A) We're likely out of the top 10 in this year's draft now.
    Oh darn. Now we can't draft the Next Big BUST for the Jets.


    IMO, if the Jets end up getting a pick in the middle or latter-stages of the 1st round, that's where they more-than-often "hit".

    B) A win in which Sanchez looked passable (which is deemed acceptable by this idiot coach and GM and his stooges) delays the inevitable Tebow swap, basically pushing back the entire time line because you are out of your mind if you think Woody isn't going to force Tebow to get a shot at starting after they finally scrap Sanchez.
    True but to be honest with you.....ANYTHING that delays/keeps Tebow from coming onto the field playing Crappy football is fine by me. He's not an NFL-Caliber QB.


    C) A&B tie to the fact that this team is boring. The offense is horrid to watch. The system is boring, there's not a single elite playmaker. There's essentially nothing outside of how awful Sanchez looks the majority of the time. How bad is it? I'd rather watch the Browns. At least Trent Richardson is exciting. Most sane football fans are probably with me.
    Then call me INSANE because if you would rather watch the Browns, THEN GO WATCH THE BROWNS!!

    Good lord.....



    D) If they somehow make the playoffs, which is essentially going undefeated after the Patriots game (almost a guaranteed loss as they've hit their stride) then Woody will continue soldiering forward with these clowns. Which means you are perpetually in limbo. Stuck with #5 overall QB's picked while mortgaging drafts for more boring football......
    Only stuck with the QB for one more year, IMO. Though the Rex/Tanny/Sparano combo staying longer would concern me....


    I'd rather they suck for the next two years, get Jadaveon Clowney and whether they are good or not are irrelevant.

    At the very least Clowney will be entertaining.
    I bet he would be great in PRESEASON games......






    Quote Originally Posted by tfine350z View Post
    Spoken like a true fan..
    Of the JETS? Yeah.



    Oh wait...you meant Sanchez? GIVE ME A BREAK!


    It's FACT, "genius".

    As much as I hate it(thanks, Tanny), Mark is going to be our Starting QB for at least another year.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    LOL...so what you are saying is that having a top pick is NOT a guarantee of success like you said earlier?? So tanking this season is really not as important as you made it out to be? I could have sworn you went on and on about drafting "No brainers" high in the draft. So now there are good players that can be drafted later in the first round?
    The point is that we have tried it your way for forty some odd years and it hasn't worked. Then we look at the Colts this and to a lesser extent to the Redskins this year and it is hard not to come to the conclusion that strategically "planning" for a high draft pick in a particular year may be a way to solidify your franchise for a decade or more.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    LOL...so what you are saying is that having a top pick is NOT a guarantee of success like you said earlier?? So tanking this season is really not as important as you made it out to be? I could have sworn you went on and on about drafting "No brainers" high in the draft. So now there are good players that can be drafted later in the first round?
    The only no brainer here is you. You don't seem to get it:

    You have to stockpile picks to have REAL leverage to trade up. Like Shanahan did.

    Clowney is not just a "DE." Watch a South Carolina game. The guy blows up TRIPLE TEAMS against SEC Offensive Linemen. He was so good as a freshman that Melvin Ingram was a first rounder.


    Seriously.

    The team is locked into Sanchez until 2013. Continually blumpkinning mid teen picks without a glut of them is not going to amount to crap. This team NEEDS to suck simply to clear a lot of junk off its roster that is eating up cap space.

    Then be built by somebody who has a clue from the ground up. A large part of that is recognizing your strengths (Ellis, Coples, Wilkerson, Revis, Cromartie) then BUILDING TO COMPLEMENT THAT while addressing weaknesses.

    Clowney COULD NOT BE DOUBLED without freeing up Wilk or Coples. The corners have always been great in coverage, but the inability to force throws (like Watt in Houston) and tip them is exactly what Clowney excels at, exposing the safeties which were a major weakness prior to this year.

    Granted, offense will still need help, but I don't think you get that this is a 4-5 year rebuild.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    The point is that we have tried it your way for forty some odd years and it hasn't worked. Then we look at the Colts this and to a lesser extent to the Redskins this year and it is hard not to come to the conclusion that strategically "planning" for a high draft pick in a particular year may be a way to solidify your franchise for a decade or more.
    Somebody gets it!

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    The point is that we have tried it your way for forty some odd years and it hasn't worked. Then we look at the Colts this and to a lesser extent to the Redskins this year and it is hard not to come to the conclusion that strategically "planning" for a high draft pick in a particular year may be a way to solidify your franchise for a decade or more.
    Fair enough, though it's hard to argue that the Redskins did anything much different this year than the Jets did in '09. Redskins didn't have the #2 pick, but they did what it took to move up and get the 2nd-best QB in the draft. Jets didn't have the #5 pick in '09, but they did what it took to move up and get the 2nd-best QB in the draft.

    RG3 was obviously a lot more heralded coming out than Sanchez, so I realize we're not talking about the same player, but it's the same idea. The team doesn't have to suck to get a player they fall in love with - they just have to recognize the greatness in that player and then sacrifice depth to get him.

    Some teams do this well. The Jets on the other hand, trade up for guys like D-Rob and Sanchez. Tanking two seasons in a row doesn't mean this FO comes away with the right players, so there's no value in this bunch taking that approach.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    The only no brainer here is you. You don't seem to get it:

    You have to stockpile picks to have REAL leverage to trade up. Like Shanahan did.

    Clowney is not just a "DE." Watch a South Carolina game. The guy blows up TRIPLE TEAMS against SEC Offensive Linemen. He was so good as a freshman that Melvin Ingram was a first rounder.


    Seriously.

    The team is locked into Sanchez until 2013. Continually blumpkinning mid teen picks without a glut of them is not going to amount to crap. This team NEEDS to suck simply to clear a lot of junk off its roster that is eating up cap space.

    Then be built by somebody who has a clue from the ground up. A large part of that is recognizing your strengths (Ellis, Coples, Wilkerson, Revis, Cromartie) then BUILDING TO COMPLEMENT THAT while addressing weaknesses.

    Clowney COULD NOT BE DOUBLED without freeing up Wilk or Coples. The corners have always been great in coverage, but the inability to force throws (like Watt in Houston) and tip them is exactly what Clowney excels at, exposing the safeties which were a major weakness prior to this year.

    Granted, offense will still need help, but I don't think you get that this is a 4-5 year rebuild.
    Dude, YOU started a thread saying the Jets needed to tank the rest of this season AND next so they can get a high draft pick to draft a "no brainer" talent. You cited Eli, RGIII, Luck, Von Miller and A.J. Green as examples of this. So now its trade down and accumulate picks because there is no "no brainer" in this years draft. So if there is no "no brainer" who is the player that someone is going to want to move up for that the Jets will get a boatload of picks for?? Your logic does not make sense. You can not on one hand say the only way to get top talent is to suck and draft in the top 3, and then say they should also trade down in the same breath.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Dude, YOU started a thread saying the Jets needed to tank the rest of this season AND next so they can get a high draft pick to draft a "no brainer" talent. You cited Eli, RGIII, Luck, Von Miller and A.J. Green as examples of this. So now its trade down and accumulate picks because there is no "no brainer" in this years draft. So if there is no "no brainer" who is the player that someone is going to want to move up for that the Jets will get a boatload of picks for?? Your logic does not make sense. You can not on one hand say the only way to get top talent is to suck and draft in the top 3, and then say they should also trade down in the same breath.
    OK, well let me clear this up for you:

    In 2013 they need to be able to trade up to get more picks in that draft, to package together to get up into the top 3 of that draft.

    Part of that sucking starts now. Sorry to burst your bubble of alternate reality that this Jets team can win a Super Bowl. Unless you think merely being competitive is OK. Which is inline with SOJF's.

    This Jets team will be lucky to be a true Super bowl contender in the next 4-5 years.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    OK, well let me clear this up for you:

    In 2013 they need to be able to trade up to get more picks in that draft, to package together to get up into the top 3 of that draft.

    Part of that sucking starts now. Sorry to burst your bubble of alternate reality that this Jets team can win a Super Bowl. Unless you think merely being competitive is OK. Which is inline with SOJF's.

    This Jets team will be lucky to be a true Super bowl contender in the next 4-5 years.
    I assume you mean 2014.

    So who is the player that someone is going to want to trade up for if the Jets have a top 5 pick? And why wouldnt the Jets then select that player? This team has needs at every position.

  12. #52
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    Andrew Luck was a once in a generation player by all accounts and so the idea of being bad enough to get the #1 overall or even to get yourself into the top 3 is not necessarily something that will help your franchise every year. I do not know enough to know if Clowney meets the once in a generation criteria.

    It is also true that a GM in his 2nd or 3rd year cannot really pursue this kind of strategy. By that time any new GM is expected to have the team on some kind of an upswing. Perhaps the last thing the Mike Tannenbaum "owes" this organization is to preside over a truly lousy 2013 campaign before getting fired. We will need to identify which of our tradeable resources would not fit in the timeline for a rebuilding and then try to get as much for them as we can. I do not think we have many of those but if we do, we should think in terms of what draft picks we can get for them.

    Finally and this has been said before, if we have kids that we think will benefit in the future from seasoning under fire this year or next year then we should go ahead and get them into games this year whenever possible.

    Finally, finally, if we plan to pursue a strategy that may yield a glut of draft picks then we need to find a way to not waste them. A complete self review of our own scouting and drafting organization is required with a view to trying to understand what went well and what went wrong in recent drafts.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Andrew Luck was a once in a generation player by all accounts and so the idea of being bad enough to get the #1 overall or even to get yourself into the top 3 is not necessarily something that will help your franchise every year. I do not know enough to know if Clowney meets the once in a generation criteria.

    It is also true that a GM in his 2nd or 3rd year cannot really pursue this kind of strategy. By that time any new GM is expected to have the team on some kind of an upswing. Perhaps the last thing the Mike Tannenbaum "owes" this organization is to preside over a truly lousy 2013 campaign before getting fired. We will need to identify which of our tradeable resources would not fit in the timeline for a rebuilding and then try to get as much for them as we can. I do not think we have many of those but if we do, we should think in terms of what draft picks we can get for them.

    Finally and this has been said before, if we have kids that we think will benefit in the future from seasoning under fire this year or next year then we should go ahead and get them into games this year whenever possible.

    Finally, finally, if we plan to pursue a strategy that may yield a glut of draft picks then we need to find a way to not waste them. A complete self review of our own scouting and drafting organization is required with a view to trying to understand what went well and what went wrong in recent drafts.
    Hopefully Woody doesnt let Tanny go into "win now save my job mode". The Jets finally have some cap relief coming and a full compliment of draft picks. Stay away from high price fee agents, and stay away from trading picks for players.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    OK, well let me clear this up for you:



    This Jets team will be lucky to be a true Super bowl contender in the next 45 years.
    fixed

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    Research this year's draft.

    At the top you have Barkley (you want another QB outta USC????) and Gino Smith.

    Then you move down and since Lattimore blew out his leg, the RB's take a dive to the bottom of round 2.

    This team is headed for a pick in the teens, where there appears to be a glut of defensive and offensive linemen similar to last year.

    Trade down and grab a RB. They will not draft another QB with Sanchez still eating up that cap space and Tebow not getting a shot at starting (the owner wants Tebow to play.)

    Trade away whatever is needed to attain either Jacksonville or Cleveland's early round pick in 2013.

    Then combined with your own projected top 10 selection based on the presumed roster, package them together and potentially move to #1 or #2 overall based on who ends up at 1 or 2.

    Similar to what Washington did to get their guy this year (RG3.)

    But hey, you SOJF's are happy with being crapped on by the Pats over and over and never having a legit shot at #1 overall coming out of the AFC, that's fine by me. But when the 2013 Jets are struggling like the 2011 and 2012 Jets have just to stay ahead of .500 because they don't make big moves like this to get top-flight talent then maybe you'll think creatively instead of having faith in this bunch of tools who find playing for AFC Championships and losing and QB's who can't break 300 yards passing or 60% completion percentages are going to get the job done, then more power to you.

    I'm glued to reality. And here's a final thought to remember:

    A rookie QB on a terrible roster with essentially two defensive ends, a wide receiver, and nothing else are the top wildcard seed right now.

    A rookie QB who is, in his rookie season, WILL FINISH WITH BETTER NUMBERS THAN SANCHEZ'S BEST CAREER SEASON.
    We need solid players. Would rather keep ALL our picks and take BEST available in any position. LB's and OL needs are clear but we have needs everywhere.....

  16. #56
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    LOL at jets fans that can't even enjoy a Jets win. I have no problem playing for a high draft pick, but not this early in the season. Plus, now we all get spend the next three days dreaming about what happens if we beat the Pats.

  17. #57
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    You play to win....period. End of story.

    What makes you think the pick we will get at 4-12 (cough Gholston cough) will work out any better than we'll get at around 15-20 (cough Coples cough).

    You play to win, or don't play at all.

  18. #58
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    Andrew Luck was a once in a generation player by all accounts and so the idea of being bad enough to get the #1 overall or even to get yourself into the top 3 is not necessarily something that will help your franchise every year. I do not know enough to know if Clowney meets the once in a generation criteria.
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...the-usc-d-line

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...son/index.html

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...n-Clowney.html

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Thank you! I will NEVER subscribe to the "keep losing, better draft position" mentality! Watching this team lose makes me a poor companion. My happy marriage depends greatly on the success of this team!

  20. #60
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    If Luckw as available this year and we needed to lose yesterday to lock him up, i would be ok with throwing the game. But there is no Luck in this years class. So to lose intentionally to insure getting a 4-7 pick versus 10-13 is just stupid. We were never going to catch up to KC and the Jags (both need QBs) so we were never going to be able to land the top 1 or 2 QBs in the draft.

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