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Thread: Tannenbaum's Biggest Mistakes?

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by JETS2417 View Post
    What talent? My whole arguement was the about the lack of talent brought in, you can't get blood out of a stone.



    Cutler is the most underrated QB in the NFL. Guy has absolutely no protection and outside of Marshall has zero weapons.
    You beat me to the punch on Cutler. the guy makes tons out of nothing at all. People here bleat about our oline. The Bears have had disgraceful and injured disgraceful olines for years.

  2. #42
    Giving Revis a 2 year extension and giving up the tag.
    Signing Bart Scott
    Signing Holmes to that contract, Holmes is a fine rec, but not for 10 mill a year, and with so much of his pay guaranteed.
    Trading 2 premium picks for Edwards
    "Guaranteeing" Scott ans Pace salary in order to sign Aso and Harris

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Jay Cutler is so much better than Sanchez it is laughable to compare them.
    Agree to disagree.

    Culter is dog**** and I'd want nothing to do with him in any form as a Jet. I'm guessing teh same folks who had a boner for him coming out of Vandy have a boner for him now.

    It's a sad example, IMO, how low we've sunk on Sanchez that we now pine for flaky uneven failed-once and never-will-be's JAG's like Cutler or run-of-the-mill guys with no real resume of success like Freeman.

    We should want better than the Cutler's of the NFL.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Thats not true at all. Sanchez was ranked as a better prospect than Freeeman by virtually every draft analyst.
    I think they were seen as different prospects. Freeman had more upside but higher bust potential. Sanchez was seen as a "safe pick" because he ran a pro style offense, had decent measurables, and was a solid player from a great college program. USC's offense is always good though, regardless of the QB. Tannenbaum and some GMs were willing to overlook that and give a ton of credit to Sanchez for team success. Kind of like what a lot of Jet fans did during Sanchez's first 2 seasons. On tape, Sanchez has never been anything special. He doesn't make throws other QBs cannot, he doesn't have special mobility, he doesn't have great physical assets. I'm not sure what the scouts saw.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Thats not true at all. Sanchez was ranked as a better prospect than Freeeman by virtually every draft analyst.
    You are correct, I was confusing Freeman with Stafford.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Agree to disagree.

    Culter is dog**** and I'd want nothing to do with him in any form as a Jet. I'm guessing teh same folks who had a boner for him coming out of Vandy have a boner for him now.

    It's a sad example, IMO, how low we've sunk on Sanchez that we now pine for flaky uneven failed-once and never-will-be's JAG's like Cutler or run-of-the-mill guys with no real resume of success like Freeman.

    We should want better than the Cutler's of the NFL.
    Nonsense. Flaky? for sure. Qb quality? He's better than a lot of QB's in this league. As you say though we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Agree to disagree.

    Culter is dog**** and I'd want nothing to do with him in any form as a Jet. I'm guessing teh same folks who had a boner for him coming out of Vandy have a boner for him now.

    It's a sad example, IMO, how low we've sunk on Sanchez that we now pine for flaky uneven failed-once and never-will-be's JAG's like Cutler or run-of-the-mill guys with no real resume of success like Freeman.

    We should want better than the Cutler's of the NFL.
    Cutler is a far better player than you give him credit for. Look at the Bears record with him in the lineup v. when he's been out of the lineup. It's staggering the difference. He also has a bottom 5 o-line in the league that makes our o-line look the Great Wall of China. We'd be a better team with Jay Cutler at QB, without question. He's not a top 5 guy, maybe not even top 10, but he's competent and could lead a team to the SB with the right pieces.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Jay Cutler is so much better than Sanchez it is laughable to compare them.
    He's better but he's still never winning a super bowl... Cutler is similar to whatever level you want to put Romo in.

    He has too many flaws to make it happen, mostly having to do with the mental part.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Agree to disagree.

    Culter is dog**** and I'd want nothing to do with him in any form as a Jet. I'm guessing teh same folks who had a boner for him coming out of Vandy have a boner for him now.

    It's a sad example, IMO, how low we've sunk on Sanchez that we now pine for flaky uneven failed-once and never-will-be's JAG's like Cutler or run-of-the-mill guys with no real resume of success like Freeman.

    We should want better than the Cutler's of the NFL.
    You can't just look at the stats and judge Cutler. Watch a few Bears games. The guy gets beat up every single game, and still makes plays. Everyone raved about Aldon Smith after his 5.5 sacks, not to take away from him he's one of the best pass rushers in the league already, but it was against the Bears O-line. Their o-line has 5 Austin Howards, we have one and we complain about our O-line play.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Cutler is a far better player than you give him credit for. Look at the Bears record with him in the lineup v. when he's been out of the lineup. It's staggering the difference. He also has a bottom 5 o-line in the league that makes our o-line look the Great Wall of China. We'd be a better team with Jay Cutler at QB, without question. He's not a top 5 guy, maybe not even top 10, but he's competent and could lead a team to the SB with the right pieces.
    This is the important part!

    What would the Jets record be right now had Macelroy got all the starter snaps in camp & played these first 11 games as the starter for the NY Jets?

    Probably no worse than 4-7! Thats all you need to know! Except he isn't killing our salary cap.

  11. #51

    Tannenbaum's Biggest Mistakes?

    That Hard Knocks show did alot of damage. It created a monster that will never be repaired with this crew. Tanny thought he was some kind of rock star. Watch the re-runs. He is a back room bean counter and should be just that. When he saw himself on TV, he became drunk with himself and didnt focus on his job. He has to go!!

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    This is the important part!

    What would the Jets record be right now had Macelroy got all the starter snaps in camp & played these first 11 games as the starter for the NY Jets?

    Probably no worse than 4-7! Thats all you need to know! Except he isn't killing our salary cap.
    I'll take it one step further.

    Imagine what our record would be if Jay Cutler was our QB.

    In 2009 Cutler was traded to the Bears for Orton, 2 1st round picks, a 3rd and received a 5th in return.

    In 2009 we traded up to get Mark Sanchez.

    I've been a Sanchez supporter for years but after yet another abysmal season I can't anymore, he isn't the answer.

    In 2009 if we traded for Cutler I think theres a good chance we would've won one of those AFCCGs.

    There I said it.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    This is the important part!

    What would the Jets record be right now had Macelroy got all the starter snaps in camp & played these first 11 games as the starter for the NY Jets?

    Probably no worse than 4-7! Thats all you need to know! Except he isn't killing our salary cap.
    "Media Mouth" McElroy?

    We'd be 0-11, headed to 0-16.

    Give up the pipe dream, the kid's not NFL material with that weakass arm, and he'll be out of the league before he hits his 5th year of deep, deep pine sitting.

    Quote Originally Posted by JETS2417 View Post
    In 2009 if we traded for Cutler I think theres a good chance we would've won one of those AFCCGs.

    There I said it.
    No chance IMO. With Cutler, we don't even make 2 AFCCG's. I must be missing something big for all this manlove for Cutler, he reminds me of Ken O'Brien arm-shaped-statue-in-pocket mixed with Ryan Leaf'ian personality flakeyness and unrelaibillity, with a little Jeff George "Leadership Stuff is overrated, twitch, twitch" thrown in for good measure.

    Another mediocre QB carried by his D, like Sanchez, but a D that needs at least something in terms of points from their QB to win games, just like ours. Cutler gave them just enough something at times, Sanchez hasn't last two years.
    Last edited by Warfish; 11-26-2012 at 01:30 PM.

  14. #54
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    As others have suggested, I can't really criticize Tanny for the trade up for Sanchez. Guys like Abe Elam and Kenyon Coleman should not get in the way of taking a shot on a franchise QB. That was a no-brainer of a move. It hasn't panned out the way we wanted, but the thought process was sound. Ditto with Gholston - despite being the biggest bust, maybe ever, in Jets history, it was a no brainer pick at the time, even with the knowledge out there that he didn't really love football. We can lament it, but I'm not sure we can criticize him for it.

    The biggest issues I have with him were the granting of huge deals when, in retrospect, they weren't really warranted. IMO, you can play the hindsight game in this instance because contract negotiations are all about creating appearances, using leverage and putting yourself in the best situation to get the best deal. In a number of instances, the Jets got taken for a ride by the players. As fans, we don't have any insight as to what the true atmosphere was surrounding the deal. IIRC, the Jets paid out the nose for Calvin Pace on account of the Fins really being interested. Was that real or fluff? I have no idea.

    I won't kill Tanny for Revis Part I because Tanny apparently decided that it was important to get the 6 year deal, which he did. He was looking at big picture stuff and felt that he didn't want to have all his guys coming up at the same time. Fair enough.

    But, deals like D. Harris, Holmes and Sanchez's extension, not to mention Scott's initial deal and subsequent renegotiations, seem to indicate that Tanny got fleeced somewhat. From our perspective, it looks like he paid more than FMV when there wasn't another team in the bidding. Its OK, IMO, in certain instances, if you end up paying over FMV for a player that you absolutely need to have. But, hopefully you counter-balance that one player with a few team friendly deals. It doesn't appear that the Jets got any team friendly deals from any of:

    Harris
    Holmes
    D'Brick
    Mangold
    Revis
    Cro
    Scott (coach friendly at least)
    Sanchez (iffy on this one - if he ended up good, it would be team-friendly).

    For a guy that is, from the outside, so cap savy to the point that he wouldn't throw Pete Kendall an extra $1m when the Jets had no other Guard alternative (BIG mistake IMO), Tanny has thrown around a ton of guaranteed money that was probably overkill.

    The whole extension of Sanchez this past off season, IMO, was horribly handled. They courted Manning and when they lost out on him, they threw Sanchez some more money. Granted, they got him on what would be a discount if he turned out to be the long term starter for the Jets. But, with this year being such a make or break year, the team should have realized that there was a distinct possibility that he would need to be off the team come 2013. His rookie contract provided for that. Now, the Jets are somewhat screwed in that regard. Bad, bad job by Tanny there.
    Last edited by crasherino; 11-26-2012 at 01:45 PM.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    "Media Mouth" McElroy?

    We'd be 0-11, headed to 0-16.

    Give up the pipe dream, the kid's not NFL material with that weakass arm, and he'll be out of the league before he hits his 5th year of deep, deep pine sitting.
    You are probably right about that. But, I wouldn't mind him having the chance to prove what we already pretty much know. If he were to get substantial snaps in the last part of the season, we would know what we're dealing with. So, when it comes time to consider backup or 3rd stringers, we would know which way to go there. Right now, the only thing the Jets have to go with are: Smart guy, weak arm, shot his mouth off whilst on IR.

    I wouldn't mind (in the right circumstances) for him to be allowed to play himself off the squad. Perhaps he'll surprise all of us and make a case for being the primary backup next year.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    "Media Mouth" McElroy?

    We'd be 0-11, headed to 0-16.

    Give up the pipe dream, the kid's not NFL material with that weakass arm, and he'll be out of the league before he hits his 5th year of deep, deep pine sitting.

    .
    McElroy threw 9 interceptions total in his college career.

    He doesnt have top end arm strength, but he also probably wont be singlehandedly responsible for 2-3 turnovers per game. He is also someone with very high FOOTBALL intelligence, something our QB drastically lacks.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    You are probably right about that. But, I wouldn't mind him having the chance to prove what we already pretty much know. If he were to get substantial snaps in the last part of the season, we would know what we're dealing with. So, when it comes time to consider backup or 3rd stringers, we would know which way to go there. Right now, the only thing the Jets have to go with are: Smart guy, weak arm, shot his mouth off whilst on IR.

    I wouldn't mind (in the right circumstances) for him to be allowed to play himself off the squad. Perhaps he'll surprise all of us and make a case for being the primary backup next year.
    Danny Woodhead factor.
    No rock must remain unturned.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    You are probably right about that. But, I wouldn't mind him having the chance to prove what we already pretty much know. If he were to get substantial snaps in the last part of the season, we would know what we're dealing with. So, when it comes time to consider backup or 3rd stringers, we would know which way to go there. Right now, the only thing the Jets have to go with are: Smart guy, weak arm, shot his mouth off whilst on IR.

    I wouldn't mind (in the right circumstances) for him to be allowed to play himself off the squad. Perhaps he'll surprise all of us and make a case for being the primary backup next year.
    Usually, I'd agree fully.

    Except.....

    1. Sanchez is almost 100% guaranteed to not only be here next year, but be the uncontested #1 QB next year. Too much money invested in him to dump him. As such, no one will get a "real chance" to unseat him till at least we lose our 8th game in 2013.

    2. We've seen the McElroy Show before, it's called "Chad Pennington Post-Injury". Weak, fluttery arm that cannot make half the throws an NFL QB must, much less all of them. Fans have taken his decent limtied play vs. the future meat-cutter #7 DB's in preseason to mean he's NFL material. Starting NFL DB's will swallow his ass whole, and the team knows it.

    I'm going to bet neither Tebow nor McElroy is a Jet in 2013. And I'll go one further, at some point it's going to come out that McElroy WAS teh primary (or a major) "unnamed player" in the whole Jets Self-Implode gate of a week or so ago. Kid can't keep his yap shut to the media, at his own fringe-level-talent detriment.

    Quote Originally Posted by sdJETSetter View Post
    Danny Woodhead factor.
    No rock must remain unturned.
    Perfect example of whats wrong with Fans.

    Woodhead could have 1,000 carries in New York, and he'd still be a nobody worth nothing. He was never right for this system, and he was never a better option that the players ahead of him here.

    The Pats, on the other hand, had less than zero in their backfield, ans a system almost custom desigend to squeeze every lost drop of potential out of a shify shoulda-been-a-slot-WR style RB like Woodhead, and even then he's a thrid string 3 carries a game type player there.

    If anything is as sure as death and taxes, it's Jets Fans over-valueing players who once were Jets, but no longer are. This site would have you think that if we'd only kept woodhead and BRaylon Edwards and Plaxico Buress we'd be 11-0 right now.
    Last edited by Warfish; 11-26-2012 at 01:45 PM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    I agree, Gholston was the pick in that spot. He was just a bust in the NFL. That happens sometimes.
    I've heard this a lot here, but I disagree. David Terrell was "the pick" at #6 in the 2001 draft. Thankfully, the Patriots brain trust instead went with a statistically unproductive DL who was generally rated in the 10-20 range by pre-draft sources.

    If the Patriots had drafted Terrell instead would they have been given a pass because he was "the pick"? I don't think so. And I don't think Tranny should be given a pass with Gholston either. You simply cannot blow top-10 picks with impunity, regardless of what the pre-draft consensus was.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by AFCEastFan View Post
    I've heard this a lot here, but I disagree. David Terrell was "the pick" at #6 in the 2001 draft. Thankfully, the Patriots brain trust instead went with a statistically unproductive DL who was generally rated in the 10-20 range by pre-draft sources.

    If the Patriots had drafted Terrell instead would they have been given a pass because he was "the pick"? I don't think so. And I don't think Tranny should be given a pass with Gholston either. You simply cannot blow top-10 picks with impunity, regardless of what the pre-draft consensus was.
    I think the point is that almost any organization with the Jets roster at that time wouold have taken Gholston in that spot. Maybe a couple of the top ones with great scouting would have traded out of the pick instead. We'll never know. Ultimately, the end result is what matters and Gholston was all-time bad draft bust.

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