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Thread: Debunking the Same Old Jets Theory

  1. #1

    Debunking the Same Old Jets Theory

    Really great points on the hysteria that we suck, have sucked, and will continue to suck. Yeah, not a great season, but given the injuries, the WR and line turnover, it's not a surprise.

    Full article is here as I know the short attention span here: http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...er_share=f94e8



    "So here goes, some facts for the enablers of the “Same Old Jets” myth:

    1) The Jets haven’t had a losing season since 2007

    How difficult is it to string together seasons without having a losing record? Since 2007, only four A.F.C. teams – Patriots, Steelers, Ravens and Chargers — and eight teams over all are in the same company. The Jets would have to lose two of their last five games — and their schedule is favorable — for their streak to be broken.
    2) The Jets have had only three losing seasons since 1997, when Bill Parcells took the reins
    Few would argue that 15 years is not a significant sample size. How impressive is the Jets’ total of 3 out of a possible 15? Only New England (1) and Green Bay (2) have had fewer losing seasons during this stretch. Pittsburgh and Denver are tied with the Jets at 3. Detroit and Cleveland lead all teams with 11.
    3) The Jets have had seven postseason appearances since 1997
    Once again, the Jets’ total puts them among the upper crust of N.F.L. teams. In the A.F.C., only four teams have qualified for the playoffs more times than the Jets during this stretch, led by New England and Indianapolis, with 11 times each. Green Bay leads N.F.C. teams with 10 appearances.
    4) The Jets have played in three conference championship games since 1997
    This number stands out when you consider that six A.F.C. teams have failed to reach one title game over this period. The Patriots and the Steelers lead the N.F.L. with six each and are the only A.F.C. teams with more appearances than the Jets. Denver, Baltimore and Indianapolis are tied with the Jets’ total of three.
    5) The Jets are one of the 18 N.F.L. teams to have actually won a Super Bowl
    Yes, this does not change the fact that 44 seasons is a long time to go without a title, which is where the Jets’ drought will almost certainly stand after this season. But they HAVE won it before. Fourteen teams have yet to win the Vince Lombardi Trophy, and only 11 teams have won more than one, led by Pittsburgh, which has won six times."

    So Ok, maybe no SB this year, but a lot of young guys with potential are getting serious experience.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    So you're saying it's good to be a Patriots fan?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CleatMarks View Post
    So you're saying it's good to be a Patriots fan?
    Go away. Literally has nothing to do with you or the Pasts.

  5. #5
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    When was the last time we won a SB?




    I rest my case.

    SOJ is ALIVE and WELL.

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    I think he's sayin




  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    When was the last time we won a SB?




    I rest my case.

    SOJ is ALIVE and WELL.
    What does this even mean and why does it seem like you get so much enjoyment out of this team's struggles?

    Is the SOJ thing sort of like a badge of honor you proudly wear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    What does this even mean and why does it seem like you get so much enjoyment out of this team's struggles?

    Is the SOJ thing sort of like a badge of honor you proudly wear?
    I don't get enjoyment out of it. But I have to admit we are pretty entertaining even when we suck. Some fans just get straight misery without the entertainment.

    I became a fan during the Kotite era. I have thicker skin than to get bent out of shape over this debacle of a team.

    I am not proud of SOJ but it is all that I know. I am used to them disappointing me. Not sure how I would handle it if this team ever found a real HC and QB that would allow them to become a perennial power.

  9. #9
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    Logic doesn't apply to people on this board. I've learned that you're better off not even trying to present facts b/c apparently amateur opinions are worth more then facts. Sad but true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    I don't get enjoyment out of it. But I have to admit we are pretty entertaining even when we suck. Some fans just get straight misery without the entertainment.

    I became a fan during the Kotite era. I have thicker skin than to get bent out of shape over this debacle of a team.

    I am not proud of SOJ but it is all that I know. I am used to them disappointing me. Not sure how I would handle it if this team ever found a real HC and QB that would allow them to become a perennial power.
    I guess his point is that 2/3 of the NFL teams over the past 15 years have had less to cheer about then the Jets. In the first 37 years of the Jets (1960-1996) they had 4 winning seasons. Since 1997 the Jets have had 10 winning seasons. The last 15 years have been the greatest years to be a Jets fan as far as being competitive and winning and it's not even close. If you became a fan during the Kotite years then you should know that 7 out of the next 10 years post Kotite the Jets were above .500. So honestly you should be more accustomed to having a winning team then a losing team. And the other problem is that people try to equate the Jets with the Yankees and have those same expectations when the Jets are more like the Royals.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choon328 View Post
    Logic doesn't apply to people on this board. I've learned that you're better off not even trying to present facts b/c apparently amateur opinions are worth more then facts. Sad but true.
    And what fact can disprove a state of mind or idea. SOJ is not a tangible thing. It is a belief. And it is up to the individual to believe it or not.

    Some people judge success by winning championships. Others are happy with being conference runner-ups.

    And if SOJ were dead the wheels would not be coming off this franchise now.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    And what fact can disprove a state of mind or idea. SOJ is not a tangible thing. It is a belief. And it is up to the individual to believe it or not.

    Some people judge success by winning championships. Others are happy with being conference runner-ups.

    And if SOJ were dead the wheels would not be coming off this franchise now.
    Same old Jets was a moniker made up by people to make fun of the Jets. And we have some people on this board who embrace it like a badge of honor. It's kind of stupid in my opinion. People who judge the Jets by whether they win a championship or not are not living in reality. Reality is that they have been one of the more successful teams over the past 15 years. I bet you didn't know that the Jets have the same amount of winning seasons in the past 15 years as the Eagles. I bet you would consider the Eagles a successful franchise over the past 15 years. Lets look at the "facts". Since 1997 the Eagles are 10-9 in the playoffs with 4 conference championship appearances (1-3) and one SB appearance (0-1). The Jets are 7-7 in playoffs with 3 conference championship appearances (0-3) and no SB appearances. There is not much there to distinguish the two teams. But most SOJ fans would like you to believe that we have this recent history of being a bad NFL team when that is just not true. Some people just get off on negative sh*t, and that's what I would call a SOJ fan.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choon328 View Post
    People who judge the Jets by whether they win a championship or not are not living in reality.

    Dude. Get over yourself.

    YOu have obviously not been at this too long.

    Signed,

    SOJF.



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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    Dude. Get over yourself.

    YOu have obviously not been at this too long.

    Signed,

    SOJF.


    I know it's against the rules of being a Jets fan to live in reality so way to play by the rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    Dude. Get over yourself.

    YOu have obviously not been at this too long.

    Signed,

    SOJF.


    +1

    In my short time ive seen something like 34 other times a different team get to and win the big game, and in that same time, the team i root for has done neither.

    And im supposed to break out the pom poms for this garbage of a team?

    Get real Shirley.

  16. #16
    Same Old Jets has never meant to me that the Jets stink. What it has always meant to me is that they will wait until my hopes and aspirations are at the highest possible level, before dashing my dreams. Same old Jets, to me, is more about the journey, which invariably ends in the depths of despair despite reaching lofty heights along the way.

    It's Richard Todd leading the Jets to a monumental comeback against the Bills in the first round of the playoffs in 1981 having the Jets in position to take the lead late in the 4th quarter, only to throw the ball right to Bill "howdy doody" Simpson in the End-zone.

    It's Richard Todd throwing Int after Int in the AFCCG mud bowl (to a DE!) single-handedly causing the Jets to lose to an inferior dolphin team in 1982.

    It's going 11-5 in 1985, winning the division and losing a home playoff game to Tony Eason and the Pats.

    It's Mark Gastineau leveling Brian Sipe on a late hit on 4th down in the AFC divisional playoff in 1986 which allows the Browns to tie the game sending it into OT, and a Jet loss.

    It's Browning Nagle going 21-37-366-2-0 in his first start ever in 1992 and sucking thereafter.

    It's Dick Steinberg getting stomach cancer.

    It's Leon Hess thinking firing Pete Carrol and hiring Rich Kotite is an Upgrade.

    It's losing the AFCCG in 1998 to the Broncos because the Jets turned the ball over 6 times! (I think 2 or 3 were fumbles by the traditionally reliable Keith Byars).

    It's the Jets coming into 1999 loaded for a SB run and seeing VT tear his Achilles tendon in a non-contact injury attempting to cover a botched hand-off. And then watching the normally realistic Bill Parcells march Rick Mirer out there at QB week after week believing pixie dust will suddenly make him competent before turning to Ray Lucas when the season was all but lost.

    It's Bill Belichick resigning as HC of the NYJ before he ever coached a game.

    It's the Jets missing in the playoffs in 2000 after outplaying the hell out of eventual SB champs Ravens in Baltimore in the final week of the year OUT-GAINING the Ravens 524 to 142 yards and 22 first downs to 5 only because the Ravens scored on a 98 int return AND punt returns of 89 and 54 yards.

    Its the 2004 10-6 playoff team of Coach Edwards turning the promise of improvement into a 4-12 2005 season.

    It's Eric Mangini's teams doing the same in 2006 to 2007.

    It's Mangini riding Brett Favre to an 8-3 start in 2008 and then showing us his true coaching ability with a lame Favre leading the Jets to an embarrassing 9-7 finish.

    It Rex Ryan's 2010 Jets disposing of Peyton Manning's Colts and Tom Brady's Pats on the road in the playoffs only to fold in the first half against Rashard Mendenhall and the Steeler Defense, then roar back in the 2d half before Shotty managed to steal defeat from the jaws of victory.

    It's Rex and Tanny turning the promise of 2 straight AFCCG appearances into a team that has not beaten an opponent with a winning in over 1 year.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by JetsNeedNewton View Post
    Really great points on the hysteria that we suck, have sucked, and will continue to suck. Yeah, not a great season, but given the injuries, the WR and line turnover, it's not a surprise.

    Full article is here as I know the short attention span here: http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...er_share=f94e8



    "So here goes, some facts for the enablers of the “Same Old Jets” myth:

    1) The Jets haven’t had a losing season since 2007

    How difficult is it to string together seasons without having a losing record? Since 2007, only four A.F.C. teams – Patriots, Steelers, Ravens and Chargers — and eight teams over all are in the same company. The Jets would have to lose two of their last five games — and their schedule is favorable — for their streak to be broken.
    2) The Jets have had only three losing seasons since 1997, when Bill Parcells took the reins
    Few would argue that 15 years is not a significant sample size. How impressive is the Jets’ total of 3 out of a possible 15? Only New England (1) and Green Bay (2) have had fewer losing seasons during this stretch. Pittsburgh and Denver are tied with the Jets at 3. Detroit and Cleveland lead all teams with 11.
    3) The Jets have had seven postseason appearances since 1997
    Once again, the Jets’ total puts them among the upper crust of N.F.L. teams. In the A.F.C., only four teams have qualified for the playoffs more times than the Jets during this stretch, led by New England and Indianapolis, with 11 times each. Green Bay leads N.F.C. teams with 10 appearances.
    4) The Jets have played in three conference championship games since 1997
    This number stands out when you consider that six A.F.C. teams have failed to reach one title game over this period. The Patriots and the Steelers lead the N.F.L. with six each and are the only A.F.C. teams with more appearances than the Jets. Denver, Baltimore and Indianapolis are tied with the Jets’ total of three.
    5) The Jets are one of the 18 N.F.L. teams to have actually won a Super Bowl
    Yes, this does not change the fact that 44 seasons is a long time to go without a title, which is where the Jets’ drought will almost certainly stand after this season. But they HAVE won it before. Fourteen teams have yet to win the Vince Lombardi Trophy, and only 11 teams have won more than one, led by Pittsburgh, which has won six times."

    So Ok, maybe no SB this year, but a lot of young guys with potential are getting serious experience.
    I don't think we have bad talent, or have had a bad run the past decade. I think we have a bad GM and a bad QB at the present moment. I view this as a problem. I'm not despondent over this season, I thought 9-7 at best given the roster. I'm despondent about our chances going forward unless we bring in a new front office and a new QB. For the record, I give Rex another season

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    Same Old Jets has never meant to me that the Jets stink. What it has always meant to me is that they will wait until my hopes and aspirations are at the highest possible level, before dashing my dreams. Same old Jets, to me, is more about the journey, which invariably ends in the depths of despair despite reaching lofty heights along the way.

    It's Richard Todd leading the Jets to a monumental comeback against the Bills in the first round of the playoffs in 1981 having the Jets in position to take the lead late in the 4th quarter, only to throw the ball right to Bill "howdy doody" Simpson in the End-zone.

    It's Richard Todd throwing Int after Int in the AFCCG mud bowl (to a DE!) single-handedly causing the Jets to lose to an inferior dolphin team in 1982.

    It's going 11-5 in 1985, winning the division and losing a home playoff game to Tony Eason and the Pats.

    It's Mark Gastineau leveling Brian Sipe on a late hit on 4th down in the AFC divisional playoff in 1986 which allows the Browns to tie the game sending it into OT, and a Jet loss.

    It's Browning Nagle going 21-37-366-2-0 in his first start ever in 1992 and sucking thereafter.

    It's Dick Steinberg getting stomach cancer.

    It's Leon Hess thinking firing Pete Carrol and hiring Rich Kotite is an Upgrade.

    It's losing the AFCCG in 1998 to the Broncos because the Jets turned the ball over 6 times! (I think 2 or 3 were fumbles by the traditionally reliable Keith Byars).

    It's the Jets coming into 1999 loaded for a SB run and seeing VT tear his Achilles tendon in a non-contact injury attempting to cover a botched hand-off. And then watching the normally realistic Bill Parcells march Rick Mirer out there at QB week after week believing pixie dust will suddenly make him competent before turning to Ray Lucas when the season was all but lost.

    It's Bill Belichick resigning as HC of the NYJ before he ever coached a game.

    It's the Jets missing in the playoffs in 2000 after outplaying the hell out of eventual SB champs Ravens in Baltimore in the final week of the year OUT-GAINING the Ravens 524 to 142 yards and 22 first downs to 5 only because the Ravens scored on a 98 int return AND punt returns of 89 and 54 yards.

    Its the 2004 10-6 playoff team of Coach Edwards turning the promise of improvement into a 4-12 2005 season.

    It's Eric Mangini's teams doing the same in 2006 to 2007.

    It's Mangini riding Brett Favre to an 8-3 start in 2008 and then showing us his true coaching ability with a lame Favre leading the Jets to an embarrassing 9-7 finish.

    It Rex Ryan's 2010 Jets disposing of Peyton Manning's Colts and Tom Brady's Pats on the road in the playoffs only to fold in the first half against Rashard Mendenhall and the Steeler Defense, then roar back in the 2d half before Shotty managed to steal defeat from the jaws of victory.

    It's Rex and Tanny turning the promise of 2 straight AFCCG appearances into a team that has not beaten an opponent with a winning in over 1 year.
    Awesome post. Anybody with any sense can tell youve been entrenched deep in this team for quite some time.

    Only '85 for me. That being said, i hurt man.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    Same Old Jets has never meant to me that the Jets stink. What it has always meant to me is that they will wait until my hopes and aspirations are at the highest possible level, before dashing my dreams. Same old Jets, to me, is more about the journey, which invariably ends in the depths of despair despite reaching lofty heights along the way.

    It's Richard Todd leading the Jets to a monumental comeback against the Bills in the first round of the playoffs in 1981 having the Jets in position to take the lead late in the 4th quarter, only to throw the ball right to Bill "howdy doody" Simpson in the End-zone.

    It's Richard Todd throwing Int after Int in the AFCCG mud bowl (to a DE!) single-handedly causing the Jets to lose to an inferior dolphin team in 1982.

    It's going 11-5 in 1985, winning the division and losing a home playoff game to Tony Eason and the Pats.

    It's Mark Gastineau leveling Brian Sipe on a late hit on 4th down in the AFC divisional playoff in 1986 which allows the Browns to tie the game sending it into OT, and a Jet loss.

    It's Browning Nagle going 21-37-366-2-0 in his first start ever in 1992 and sucking thereafter.

    It's Dick Steinberg getting stomach cancer.

    It's Leon Hess thinking firing Pete Carrol and hiring Rich Kotite is an Upgrade.

    It's losing the AFCCG in 1998 to the Broncos because the Jets turned the ball over 6 times! (I think 2 or 3 were fumbles by the traditionally reliable Keith Byars).

    It's the Jets coming into 1999 loaded for a SB run and seeing VT tear his Achilles tendon in a non-contact injury attempting to cover a botched hand-off. And then watching the normally realistic Bill Parcells march Rick Mirer out there at QB week after week believing pixie dust will suddenly make him competent before turning to Ray Lucas when the season was all but lost.

    It's Bill Belichick resigning as HC of the NYJ before he ever coached a game.

    It's the Jets missing in the playoffs in 2000 after outplaying the hell out of eventual SB champs Ravens in Baltimore in the final week of the year OUT-GAINING the Ravens 524 to 142 yards and 22 first downs to 5 only because the Ravens scored on a 98 int return AND punt returns of 89 and 54 yards.

    Its the 2004 10-6 playoff team of Coach Edwards turning the promise of improvement into a 4-12 2005 season.

    It's Eric Mangini's teams doing the same in 2006 to 2007.

    It's Mangini riding Brett Favre to an 8-3 start in 2008 and then showing us his true coaching ability with a lame Favre leading the Jets to an embarrassing 9-7 finish.

    It Rex Ryan's 2010 Jets disposing of Peyton Manning's Colts and Tom Brady's Pats on the road in the playoffs only to fold in the first half against Rashard Mendenhall and the Steeler Defense, then roar back in the 2d half before Shotty managed to steal defeat from the jaws of victory.

    It's Rex and Tanny turning the promise of 2 straight AFCCG appearances into a team that has not beaten an opponent with a winning in over 1 year.
    This.

    SOJ doesn't mean they suck and lose. If they did, nobody would care. It measn they get close and have an EPIC fail. It means you swear you're going to stop putting so much hope into a talented team with promise that always loses the big one. Then they get your hopes up and... almost there and... collapsed. Over and over and over. As long as you've been a fan, and even before when you look at the history.

    Then other teams win Super Bowls every handful of years. Often at your expense - as in they went through us to get there.

    And their fans ... bandwagoners of less than a year or two following their team... mock you.

    That's SOJ. When we win a Super Bowl, the term will die.

    But then... and ONLY then.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    Same Old Jets has never meant to me that the Jets stink. What it has always meant to me is that they will wait until my hopes and aspirations are at the highest possible level, before dashing my dreams. Same old Jets, to me, is more about the journey, which invariably ends in the depths of despair despite reaching lofty heights along the way.

    It's Richard Todd leading the Jets to a monumental comeback against the Bills in the first round of the playoffs in 1981 having the Jets in position to take the lead late in the 4th quarter, only to throw the ball right to Bill "howdy doody" Simpson in the End-zone.

    It's Richard Todd throwing Int after Int in the AFCCG mud bowl (to a DE!) single-handedly causing the Jets to lose to an inferior dolphin team in 1982.

    It's going 11-5 in 1985, winning the division and losing a home playoff game to Tony Eason and the Pats.

    It's Mark Gastineau leveling Brian Sipe on a late hit on 4th down in the AFC divisional playoff in 1986 which allows the Browns to tie the game sending it into OT, and a Jet loss.

    It's Browning Nagle going 21-37-366-2-0 in his first start ever in 1992 and sucking thereafter.

    It's Dick Steinberg getting stomach cancer.

    It's Leon Hess thinking firing Pete Carrol and hiring Rich Kotite is an Upgrade.

    It's losing the AFCCG in 1998 to the Broncos because the Jets turned the ball over 6 times! (I think 2 or 3 were fumbles by the traditionally reliable Keith Byars).

    It's the Jets coming into 1999 loaded for a SB run and seeing VT tear his Achilles tendon in a non-contact injury attempting to cover a botched hand-off. And then watching the normally realistic Bill Parcells march Rick Mirer out there at QB week after week believing pixie dust will suddenly make him competent before turning to Ray Lucas when the season was all but lost.

    It's Bill Belichick resigning as HC of the NYJ before he ever coached a game.

    It's the Jets missing in the playoffs in 2000 after outplaying the hell out of eventual SB champs Ravens in Baltimore in the final week of the year OUT-GAINING the Ravens 524 to 142 yards and 22 first downs to 5 only because the Ravens scored on a 98 int return AND punt returns of 89 and 54 yards.

    Its the 2004 10-6 playoff team of Coach Edwards turning the promise of improvement into a 4-12 2005 season.

    It's Eric Mangini's teams doing the same in 2006 to 2007.

    It's Mangini riding Brett Favre to an 8-3 start in 2008 and then showing us his true coaching ability with a lame Favre leading the Jets to an embarrassing 9-7 finish.

    It Rex Ryan's 2010 Jets disposing of Peyton Manning's Colts and Tom Brady's Pats on the road in the playoffs only to fold in the first half against Rashard Mendenhall and the Steeler Defense, then roar back in the 2d half before Shotty managed to steal defeat from the jaws of victory.

    It's Rex and Tanny turning the promise of 2 straight AFCCG appearances into a team that has not beaten an opponent with a winning in over 1 year.
    It's all this and more.

    So much more...just a clown car of fail.


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