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Thread: Stephen Hill today

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Turnbub View Post
    Thought Chris collinsworth made an interesting comment during pats game that hill might be running his routes at one speed and that is full speed. He made analogy that he's like a fastball pitcher and guys in the nfl learned after the buffalo game how to time him. He needs to learn to change speeds to be successful. Give him some time and as noted the work ethic and character are there.
    He does seem like a great character guy in league where every WR now is a "diva". That's a positive I think. His height and speed combo is a rarity too. The only worry is I hope he doesn't have the Jeff Graham disease. For those who remember Graham in his two years here....he'd make the spectacular catch but then drop passes thrown right at his chest.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by tfine350z View Post
    Rookie WR's usually don't make an impact right away.......unless there name is Randy Moss
    I still feel that many are obviously jumping the gun here with Stephen Hill and throwing around the term bust like its a frisbee.

    However, there have been a few rookie WRs making impacts recently such as AJ Green, Julio Jones, Dez to an extent etc etc.

    This situation is different IMO because Hill is coming from a program that didn't throw the ball so there adjustments to be made. He has all the upside we could ask for. Not sure how to feel about our WRs coach either....but Hill I like as a prospect long term.

  3. #43
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    Unless you guys know play book don't see how anyone could claim he was running his routes wrong .. And the one play Sanchez missed it clearly look like mark was saying my fault..

    Some jets fan always gotta make themselves look like idiots.. He is bust after 12 games lmao

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    No. I'm serious. This kid sucks. WTF is wrong with you people?

    This has nothing to do with my belief that Tebow should start over McElroy. People just hate to hate and that's fine.

    But to say that Hill played a good game today... based on what? How HORRIBLE he's played all year? It's good for Stephen Hill and that's not saying much. He can't catch and he runs the wrong routes. He's another 2nd round bust pick by Tanny. Who drafts a WR that can't catch the football? Tanny and Rex do because Hill can "block".

    His route running sucks, his decision on what route to run is worse, his ability to catch the football is the worst part of his game.

    So if I think Hill sucks and he sucked today again I'm being annoying. How about people just having blind homerism about a player because they don't want to admit what they already know? The kid sucks. Period. End of story. He'd have to get better at every aspect of WR in order to even be worth the roster spot.
    Wow, you truly have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

    In case you didnt notice after your 9000 posts, this is a board that is going to discuss every single detail of the NYJ, as designed. The poster said that HIll IMPROVED, that he didnt have any drops and used his hands instead of his body. Basically a spot on analysis for a player who has struggled.

    To say he "sucks" means you are yet another fan who has no clue that the NFL is actually HARD. Ask everyone who thought that wilkerson sucked last year how he is doing now that he has learned the pro game...the answer is DOMINANT.

    Hill was drafted as a developmental player that unfortunately had to play a lot this year. The prospect he most comapres to is Demaryious Thomas who had 22 and 32 catches each of his first 2 years and now has 69 for 1100 so far this year. The answer to how good he is will come in 2014...but dont let rational analysis get in the way of your solid opinion

  5. #45

    And lets keep in mind

    And lets keep in mind who was throwing to him this year. If Manning was his qb what would his numbers be?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt39 View Post
    He looks incredibly awkward. Speed doesnt translate in pads at all. Jumps on catches for no reason. Watched him a lot today....cant beat press. He stinks tbh.
    This post is funny on so many levels.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop24 View Post
    Unless you guys know play book don't see how anyone could claim he was running his routes wrong .. And the one play Sanchez missed it clearly look like mark was saying my fault..

    Some jets fan always gotta make themselves look like idiots.. He is bust after 12 games lmao
    Half of these guys would have run Demariyus Thomas out of town after his rookie year also. I'm not saying Hill is going to be a superstar, but he has the tools you need to be a star WR and that you can't teach. He has the size, speed and the desire. You can work on route running and you can work on improving his hands.

  8. #48
    I think he was a good value pick in second round.. He has all the physical tools..... I think he's going to be a fine player.. just needs to be on field and contine to develop. you can't teach size and speed.. He's got both..

    I think Kerley and Hilll represent a decent core of young talent.. Holmes isn't going anywhere..

    W

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Wow, you truly have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

    In case you didnt notice after your 9000 posts, this is a board that is going to discuss every single detail of the NYJ, as designed. The poster said that HIll IMPROVED, that he didnt have any drops and used his hands instead of his body. Basically a spot on analysis for a player who has struggled.

    To say he "sucks" means you are yet another fan who has no clue that the NFL is actually HARD. Ask everyone who thought that wilkerson sucked last year how he is doing now that he has learned the pro game...the answer is DOMINANT.

    Hill was drafted as a developmental player that unfortunately had to play a lot this year. The prospect he most comapres to is Demaryious Thomas who had 22 and 32 catches each of his first 2 years and now has 69 for 1100 so far this year. The answer to how good he is will come in 2014...but dont let rational analysis get in the way of your solid opinion
    So you're saying that because other players have developed after 3 years of play that I should pretend that Hill will do the same?

    How about I live in the present. And the present says that he sucks.

    And in case you didn't notice, the OP said he played a good game. Other people, like Vin, said they liked that he showed IMPROVEMENT. There is a difference. I said, he hasn't played a good game, which he didn't based on the reasons I gave. People are excited because his improvement is basically him not dropping every pass that comes his way. They would be right, that IS improvement. And if that's what makes you happy then have at it. I can't imagine the glee you got from watching Gholston actually make a tackle in a game since that would have been a sign of improvement as well.

    When improvement equates to a player having a game where they didn't completely sh!t their pants... I wouldn't be calling out a poster that refuses to join the giggle party.

    As of today Hill sucks. Alot. I never said he couldn't get better. In fact I said the opposite. But the odds are heavily stacked against him, as they always were based on his draft analysis. Limited college experience playing a traditional WR position with limited route knowledge. You can have reason for optimism. But don't poopoo on someone for being pessimistic. The kid is a project WR. There odds of him failing are 9 out of 10 based on historical data.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    Seriously, take the 1st game of the season out of the equation.

    He's got 16 catches for 163 yards in 11 games. That sucks. That's a bust pick.

    But to some, this is improvement. That's like saying Gholston improved when he finally got to start a game in the NFL. It was better than he was doing before....
    How do you conveniently get to throw out his first game?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by BRONX JET View Post
    How do you conveniently get to throw out his first game?
    I don't. I'm adding that game in when I say that I think he sucks. I'm just saying outside of that game his impact looks even more dismal.

    21 catches, 252 yards, 3 TDs.

    2nd round pick.

    That sucks. Of course, that's my opinion. That doesn't cut it especially when you're the #1 target since Week 5.

  12. #52
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    people who try to label Hill a bust have no clue what they're talking 'bout. how did the top notch rookie wr for the cards (Michael Floyd) do yesterday, or for that reason the entire season. i'm pretty sure Hill is having a better season.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    So you're saying that because other players have developed after 3 years of play that I should pretend that Hill will do the same?

    How about I live in the present. And the present says that he sucks.

    And in case you didn't notice, the OP said he played a good game. Other people, like Vin, said they liked that he showed IMPROVEMENT. There is a difference. I said, he hasn't played a good game, which he didn't based on the reasons I gave. People are excited because his improvement is basically him not dropping every pass that comes his way. They would be right, that IS improvement. And if that's what makes you happy then have at it. I can't imagine the glee you got from watching Gholston actually make a tackle in a game since that would have been a sign of improvement as well.

    When improvement equates to a player having a game where they didn't completely sh!t their pants... I wouldn't be calling out a poster that refuses to join the giggle party.

    As of today Hill sucks. Alot. I never said he couldn't get better. In fact I said the opposite. But the odds are heavily stacked against him, as they always were based on his draft analysis. Limited college experience playing a traditional WR position with limited route knowledge. You can have reason for optimism. But don't poopoo on someone for being pessimistic. The kid is a project WR. There odds of him failing are 9 out of 10 based on historical data.
    What historical data is that? Better data then the fact that an equally tall, equally fast WR, from the exact same college, also had 25-30 catches his first year and is now bordering on super-stardom?

  14. #54
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    All I will say is that many people didn't think much of Kerley after last year as well

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    What historical data is that? Better data then the fact that an equally tall, equally fast WR, from the exact same college, also had 25-30 catches his first year and is now bordering on super-stardom?
    Agreed. I would love to see the historical data that proves this. Although you can make the argument that Thomas' biggest improvement came from a change at QB.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    What historical data is that? Better data then the fact that an equally tall, equally fast WR, from the exact same college, also had 25-30 catches his first year and is now bordering on super-stardom?
    No. It's the list of WRs that were drafted specifically because of their combine numbers and not because of their play on the field that ended up stinking up the NFL.

    Thomas wasn't even #3 option in his rookie year. Broncos depth chart was:

    Brandon Lloyd
    Eddie Royal
    Jabar Gaffney

    So that's hardly a good comparison.

    Like I said, I'm judging this on WRs that were drafted because they had size/speed... the old "you can't teach that!" abilities. All of those except the actual ability to play WR in the NFL.

    I'm not saying he can't get better. I'm saying based on how he looks right now the odds are against him. I'm certainly not gonna call it a 5 catch 40 yard receiving day a "good game" even if it was for his standards. It was improvement. If he gets better I have no problem admitting how impressed I am at his improvement, trust me. However, to call me out for thinking he sucks is BS.
    Last edited by southside; 12-03-2012 at 03:19 PM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    No. It's the list of WRs that were drafted specifically because of their combine numbers and not because of their play on the field that ended up stinking up the NFL.

    Thomas wasn't even #3 option in his rookie year.

    Brandon Lloyd
    Eddie Royal
    Jabar Gaffney

    So that's hardly a good comparison.
    Hill was the 3rd option behind kerley and holmes until holmes got hurt, so really not that different.

    Plus the denver roster and our roster have no basis in the comparison....it just shows that they didnt depend on thomas and we have been forced to depend on hill.

    Lastly, he wasnt drafted on his combine performance. He is a non-diva Wr, who blocks, works hard and has big play ability, he simply wasnt given opportunities in college.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Hill was the 3rd option behind kerley and holmes until holmes got hurt, so really not that different.

    Plus the denver roster and our roster have no basis in the comparison....it just shows that they didnt depend on thomas and we have been forced to depend on hill.

    Lastly, he wasnt drafted on his combine performance. He is a non-diva Wr, who blocks, works hard and has big play ability, he simply wasnt given opportunities in college.
    Hill was the opening day #2 option. Kerley was in the doghouse. So I'm talking specifically about the fact that Hill is getting a lot more playing time and targets than Thomas got his rookie year. Again, I'm not even the guy that made the comparison, you did. I'm saying it has no basis in the comparison!

    However, you want to make an apples to apples comparison? Fine.

    Demaryius Thomas - Sr season at GT: 82 receptions, 1,234 yards (lol that's kind of funny), 10 TDs.

    Stephen Hill - Jr season at GT: 28 receptions, 820 yards, 5 TDs.

    That's not the same type of player at all. There is no comparison.

  19. #59
    Let's compare Demaryius Thomas and Stephen Hill since:

    - both played at the same school

    - both were seen as undeveloped players with raw physical talent

    - Hill has played 10 games and Thomas only played 10 games his rookie year

    Thomas: 22 receptions, 283 yards (12.9 YPR); 2 TDs
    - Best game: 8 receptions, 97 yds, TD
    - Longest reception: 31 yds

    Hill: 21 receptions, 252 yds (12.0 YPR); 3 TDs
    - Best game: 5 receptions, 89 yds, 2 TD
    - Longest reception: 33 yds


    Pretty similar to me. You can also do dumb "take out the one game and..." argument for Thomas. Taking away that game would have left him with 14 receptions, 186 yards, and 1 TD. Doing that for Hill would have him at 16 receptions, 163 yards, 1 TD.

    The bottom line is that a unpolished rookie WR is going to be inconsistent, regardless of what his physical tools are. With Hill's tools and work ethic, I'm cautiously optimistic.
    Last edited by Rexipus Rex; 12-03-2012 at 03:41 PM.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    Hill was the opening day #2 option. Kerley was in the doghouse. So I'm talking specifically about the fact that Hill is getting a lot more playing time and targets than Thomas got his rookie year. Again, I'm not even the guy that made the comparison, you did. I'm saying it has no basis in the comparison!

    However, you want to make an apples to apples comparison? Fine.

    Demaryius Thomas - Sr season at GT: 82 receptions, 1,234 yards (lol that's kind of funny), 10 TDs.

    Stephen Hill - Jr season at GT: 28 receptions, 820 yards, 5 TDs.

    That's not the same type of player at all. There is no comparison.

    No, but it does tell you that Hill was not nearly as polished as Thomas was coming out, thus Hill's learning curve was going to be steeper than Thomas'.

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