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Thread: As a starter G-Mac has only lost three games since he was in 8th grade.

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    Ummm, 9 NFL passes do not properly evaluate arm strength. Need to see more.

    Although that was a great 1-foot TD pass.
    It was. Sanchez would have tried to run it in, stumbled, then decided to pass it, and thrown the ball over Cumberland's head.... and it was easily a 5 foot pass.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    So who was that who stepped in yesterday with no warning and did what he had to do to win the game?

    Many a quality QB had inauspicious starts that no one had scripted.

    -
    Amazes me the Carnacks on this forum
    Who knows
    Maybe we found our "caretaker", I'll take a QB that can run the O without TOs anyday.
    Sanchez looked dazed & confused compared to Mac & that is scary considering he's had 3 and 1/2 years more experience.
    Ouch.
    I really liked Macs ball handling, looked very professional, you can tell the kid was a coaches son.
    Very technical.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    It was. Sanchez would have tried to run it in, stumbled, then decided to pass it, and thrown the ball over Cumberland's head.... and it was easily a 5 foot pass.
    Actually you are wrong, Mark would have thrown it too hard, directly at his facemack.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    So who was that who stepped in yesterday with no warning and did what he had to do to win the game?

    Many a quality QB had inauspicious starts that no one had scripted.

    -
    What exactly did he do to win the game? On the scoring drive he completed 2 passes. 1 was a decent pass to hill for 8 yards, the other was 1 yard pass to a wide open Cumberland. The biggest play of the drive was him "drawing" a borderline personal foul penalty.

    I am all for giving Mcelroy the next 4 games to prove himself. Honestly, i am happy with any scenario where Tebow doesn't start at QB.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    I don't even think Macelroy practiced with the 1st string last week either?
    The Cards D is anything but weak.
    It's actually better than the Pats & they play with zero offense helping them.
    But, you win in this league by avoiding TOs.
    The 49ers lost yesterday because of TOs
    Lions- TOs
    Sanchez was a TO MACHINE!
    That's true enough, Arizona does have a very good defense. Would like to see McElroy play an entire game next week just to see how he does from start to finish. The Jets don't have much to lose at this point, because if Indy or Pittsburgh does any better than 1-3 over the next four games we are out of playoff contention anyway.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    Amazes me the Carnacks on this forum
    Who knows
    Maybe we found our "caretaker", I'll take a QB that can run the O without TOs anyday.
    Sanchez looked dazed & confused compared to Mac & that is scary considering he's had 3 and 1/2 years more experience.
    Ouch.
    I really liked Macs ball handling, looked very professional, you can tell the kid was a coaches son.
    Very technical.
    LOL... Perhaps this explains why Sanchez runs the O like he's inside a burning building.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Who would be mcelroys most likely comparable QB today simply in terms of arm strength, mobility, etc

    Andy Dalton?
    Matt Flynn
    Thats why I think we have a keeper for Rex if he stays & wants to play ball control
    No TO football.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    Amazes me the Carnacks on this forum
    Who knows
    Maybe we found our "caretaker", I'll take a QB that can run the O without TOs anyday.
    Sanchez looked dazed & confused compared to Mac & that is scary considering he's had 3 and 1/2 years more experience.
    Ouch.
    I really liked Macs ball handling, looked very professional, you can tell the kid was a coaches son.
    Very technical.
    the play i loved was a 3rd down when he threw it away. he knew that was the smart play. he didn't hold it so defenders could knock it out of his hands and he didn't force it in the middle of the field where sanchez gets picked. he understood that punting was the correct decision.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    LOL... Perhaps this explains why Sanchez runs the O like he's inside a burning building.
    +1 LOL!
    Mark is a skittish mess

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    Absolutely arm strength matters in the NFL.

    Lack of arm strength will eliminate those types of patterns that SMC describes (deep seam between the CB & Safety, 10-15 yard sideline out, deep crossing patterns, etc.).
    Brady’s arm is not nearly what it once was (when he was juicing), but he’s still very accurate in the short to medium throws.

    They learned when Cassel was QB that dink and dunk can be an effective way to run an offense…

    This is 90% of what they do these days given Brady's limitations and it seems to work for them.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    Arm strength is a great thing. But it is a useless tool in the hands of an inaccurate QB who make poor decisions. It is a quality that is "icing" on the QB cake. Without the icing, it's still cake, it's just not as mouth-watering. But in order to even have a cake upon which to spread your icing, you first have to bake the cake. The "essential" ingredients to baking a cake are flour and eggs. Accuracy and decision making are the flour and eggs the QB cake. Without those ingredients you just don't have a QB.

    So would you rather have a good cake with no icing - McElroy - Or a cake baked with rotten eggs and stale flour with icing - Sanchez.
    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    Absolutely arm strength matters in the NFL.

    Lack of arm strength will eliminate those types of patterns that SMC describes (deep seam between the CB & Safety, 10-15 yard sideline out, deep crossing patterns, etc.).
    Lets not pretend arm strength is a luxury - its not. Having a certain level of arm strength is necessary to be successful in the NFL. Does McElroy meet that benchmark? I have no idea at this point. I know that most people felt that he didn't have the necessary arm strength coming out of college, but the same thing was said about Brady as well. Arm strength, unlike height, can be improved. Can it be improved to the point where a guy like Mc can become a successful NFL QB? Its a long shot, for sure, but certainly worth exploring.

    The team has a decision to make now. If the team thinks that Sanchez is going to be on the roster next year and is still be the likely starter, it makes sense to have Sanchez start - as distasteful as it will be to most of us. But, if the team is leaning towards jettisoning Sanchez, even with the big cap hit, it would be good to get Mc in there to see what we have. Solid #2? Outside shot to be starter (with a full camp and offseason to prepare)? Waiver wire material?

    Considering that Mc has had so few actual reps thus far in his career, he carried himself pretty well yesterday. But, it was a pretty limited universe of plays. If the team wants to see what he has, lets give him the reps in practice for a few weeks and roll him out there for Jax and Tenn and see what he can show. I'm not looking for flawless football, but I'd like to see if he can drive the ball downfield, make some throws into tight windows and generally manage the game well. At that point, perhaps we can enter next season with Mc, a journeyman QB and a 2nd/3rd round pick as our options.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    the play i loved was a 3rd down when he threw it away. he knew that was the smart play. he didn't hold it so defenders could knock it out of his hands and he didn't force it in the middle of the field where sanchez gets picked. he understood that punting was the correct decision.
    I think Mark has thrown the ball away once in his ENTIRE career.
    Vs Cincy

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    I think Mark has thrown the ball away once in his ENTIRE career.
    Vs Cincy
    this is something you can clearly teach in practice, but not all qbs can bring practice habits into the games. that's sanchez's shortcoming. he probably works on all the technical stuff in practice, but none of it comes on sundays. he still holds the ball carelessly. throws the ball on the wrong shoulder and never throws it away. it's not fair to blame this on cavanaugh. at some point, good qbs improve. little did we all know that sanchez's ceiling was at usc.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mogglez View Post
    I was at the game yesterday, his arm is honestly not as weak as some of the people here are making it out to be. It was reported that the guy spent his entire off-season working on improving is mechanics and adding muscle to quicken his release and boost his arm strength up. His arm isn't or Aaron Rodgers or Matthew Stafford, but that back shoulder throw to Kerley and the first deep ball to hill looked good enough to me. As long as the guy doesn't hold the ball in the pocket for 5 seconds only to toss it up to the other team instead of throwing it away, he is an improvement.



    This is going right into the signature.
    Because anyone at the game or watching the game could see that the reports of his arm strength improving through off season workouts and tweaked mechanics has worked.

    Those who spew the same old stories from the past will keep saying the same things over and over again.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    Actually you are wrong, Mark would have thrown it too hard, directly at his facemack.
    If Sanchez was aiming at the face mask, the pass would have bounced off Cumberland's feet.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    I think Mark has thrown the ball away once in his ENTIRE career.
    Vs Cincy
    Mark has thrown the ball away much more than that.

    Its just that as inaccurate as he is, passes thrown out of bounds wind up as picks over the middle.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    Lets not pretend arm strength is a luxury - its not. Having a certain level of arm strength is necessary to be successful in the NFL. Does McElroy meet that benchmark? I have no idea at this point. I know that most people felt that he didn't have the necessary arm strength coming out of college, but the same thing was said about Brady as well. Arm strength, unlike height, can be improved. Can it be improved to the point where a guy like Mc can become a successful NFL QB? Its a long shot, for sure, but certainly worth exploring.

    The team has a decision to make now. If the team thinks that Sanchez is going to be on the roster next year and is still be the likely starter, it makes sense to have Sanchez start - as distasteful as it will be to most of us. But, if the team is leaning towards jettisoning Sanchez, even with the big cap hit, it would be good to get Mc in there to see what we have. Solid #2? Outside shot to be starter (with a full camp and offseason to prepare)? Waiver wire material?

    Considering that Mc has had so few actual reps thus far in his career, he carried himself pretty well yesterday. But, it was a pretty limited universe of plays. If the team wants to see what he has, lets give him the reps in practice for a few weeks and roll him out there for Jax and Tenn and see what he can show. I'm not looking for flawless football, but I'd like to see if he can drive the ball downfield, make some throws into tight windows and generally manage the game well. At that point, perhaps we can enter next season with Mc, a journeyman QB and a 2nd/3rd round pick as our options.
    Not sure I see your point? Even if Sanchez had the arm strength to throw the football completely through the Great Pyramid of Giza, what good would it do if he missed?

    My point is based on the fact that the only QB's we currently have to choose from are Sanchez and McElroy. Comparing the two the only thing Sanchez definitely has over McElroy is arm strength, and that is not a good enough reason to select Sanchez over McElroy.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    Not sure I see your point? Even if Sanchez had the arm strength to throw the football completely through the Great Pyramid of Giza, what good would it do if he missed?

    My point is based on the fact that the only QB's we currently have to choose from are Sanchez and McElroy. Comparing the two the only thing Sanchez definitely has over McElroy is arm strength, and that is not a good enough reason to select Sanchez over McElroy.
    I don't disagree with that. Arm strength alone does not a QB make. Not by a longshot.

    But, you need to have at least adequate arm strength in order to make it in the NFL. Sanchez has adequate arm strength - that's about it. There are two levels of arm strength that are relevant here. One - adequate arm strength that at least qualifies you to play in the NFL. Sanchez has that. Then we have a category of PLUS arm strength, and that means the guys who can compensate, somewhat, if they throw the ball a little late because they can burn it in there. Sanchez does not have that. Aaron Rogers does. As does Joe Flacco, Stafford, Freeman, etc.

    If we are talking about PLUS arm strength, I agree - that's icing on the cake. Sanchez doesn't have that though. What we need to find out now is if Mcelroy has even adequate arm strength such that he can make all the necessary throws to be a starter in this league (i.e. can he drive the ball outside the numbers in December in the Northeast when his pocket is collapsing).
    Last edited by crasherino; 12-03-2012 at 10:25 AM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    the play i loved was a 3rd down when he threw it away. he knew that was the smart play. he didn't hold it so defenders could knock it out of his hands and he didn't force it in the middle of the field where sanchez gets picked. he understood that punting was the correct decision.
    Yes, heady play, no hesitation, just natural and calm… total understanding of where he was and what he should do at that moment. Something you almost never see Sanchez do btw. They say he’s a bit cocky and I think a big part of that comes from just knowing how to play the position well.

    He understands that it’s all about moving the chains. 1st and 10, get a sure 5 yards, 2 and 5, get 3 yards…

    When you go in with that mindset, and keep the ball in play (more than 55% of the time), you will move the chains + get some broken plays here and there…

    Sanchez’s dreadful accuracy meant that RB’s and WR’s were constantly slowing up, or catching (dropping) balls thrown behind them/on their hips.

    He’s got everything we need in a starter imo except of course we don’t know if he’s arm will be adequate enough. For what it’s worth, I thought the 2 deepest passes he completed were perfect, tight spirals and showed decent zip.

    They weren’t the lollipops that I remember Pennington throwing, that’s for sure.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    I don't disagree with that. Arm strength alone does not a QB make. Not by a longshot.

    But, you need to have at least adequate arm strength in order to make it in the NFL. Sanchez has adequate arm strength - that's about it. There are two levels of arm strength that are relevant here. One - adequate arm strength that at least qualifies you to play in the NFL. Sanchez has that. Then we have a category of PLUS arm strength, and that means the guys who can compensate, somewhat, if they throw the ball a little late because they can burn it in there. Sanchez does not have that. Aaron Rogers does. As does Joe Flacco.

    If we are talking about PLUS arm strength, I agree - that's icing on the cake. Sanchez doesn't have that though. What we need to find out now is if Mcelroy has even adequate arm strength such that he can make all the necessary throws to be a starter in this league (i.e. can he drive the ball outside the numbers in December in the Northeast when his pocket is collapsing).
    not disagreeing here. but for this offense, which is intended to be a run-oriented, ball control offense, mcelroy already has the qualities you'd want in a qb to run it. he's probably the guy you want to take care of the football and make the short to intermediate throws. time will hopefully tell.

    if mcelroy can be a game manager, he's the best option now. maybe he becomes a full time starter or maybe he goes back to being a backup b/c of lack of arm strength. but either way, if he can complete enough 3rd downs and not fumble a lot he should be the qb.

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