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Thread: Sanchez: Where did the train jump off the tracks?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbstern View Post
    I keep thinking about how badly Sanchez regressed in years 3 and 4 and have been pondering the reasons why.

    - The detoriation of the Jets o-line and the increasing amount of hits he took.
    - The regression of the running game.
    - The departure of high quality, veteran skill players on offense.
    - Defenses adjusting to him, exploting his weaknesses.
    - Being on a defensively oriented team that might not be able to properly mold a young QB.
    - Changing to a new offensive system under Sparano.
    - The Teebow deal.
    - Other, high-profile distractions the Jets managed to create.
    - Self-inflicted distractions (serial dating trophy women).
    - The intensity of being a pro QB in NYC (all of the above stuffed into a pressure cooker, set on "high").

    Please feel free to add to the above list, if I've missed anything.

    When taken in sum, it shouldn't surprise anyone that Mark Sanchez regressed.

    Most of the above isn't within his control. It's about the environment he's in.
    All QB's go through ups and downs. Young QB's have to adjust, they have to learn to continue to make adjustments, to be able to read defenses, and trust themselves. Above all, the QB is the one player on the field that cannot lose confidence, it affects the entire team.

    For me, Sanchez has lost his confidence. We can play the blame game all day long, about half of it will make sense based on all the agenda driven feedback I've seen on the topic, and on the player.

    He's regressed, but most of all, injuries have derailed the season from the start, it began in training camp, when multiple players, especially at WR were out with injury all camp long, Sanchez never had an opportunity to go through camp and learn the offense with the weapons he has on the field with him today. This continued into the season when he lost Keller to open the season, and then Holmes when he went down.

    The QB needs consistency around him, he cannot trust the offense, and the players around him, if he isn't able to work with them for a period of time and establish that chemistry, the timing, the rythm. It's a new offense, all of this matters greatly.

    Because of this, Sanchez has had to adjust, each and every week it seemed he had to handle each game plan with a new set of weapons.

    It's difficult for almost any QB to perservere through this.

    The Tebow factor has obviously been a big deal, this has been piled on by the media every week, and it's an obvious distraction.

    I was for the move when it happened, I still am, but it's obvious the media has their own agenda with this guy. There is a reason why Denver players and supposedly Jets players have commented as they have about him.

    The season has not gone well, so fans are hot, understandibly so, but much of the blame has been placed on Sanchez, while some of it is understandible, I don't think fans take in all the factors and analyze the problems as they should, and they dump it on Sanchez. Add the Tebow dynamic, we have fans screaming for him, and he isn't even half the QB Sanchez is.

    Fans will say, Sanchez hasn't shown anything in 4 years. That just isn't true. He showed quite a bit his first two. Even showed that he could perservere through some of the problems last year, his first 11-12 games overall, before the end of the season, look up the numbers, he was actually pretty solid, played well, but the season imploded, players imploded, players around him lost trust in the offensive coaching staff, and they basically quit on Sanchez. I blame Burress and Holmes for a lot of this. It appears Burress was not only a big contributor, but didn't seem to care. With Holmes, we all know the guy can be a douche, but I also think the guy is an intense competitor, and for all of his wrongs, I believe he is at least a player that cares, but went about it the wrong way.

    The OL struggled mightily last year, and that too was a big issue.

    Add it all up, with the fans now jumping on him, it's something Sanchez was probably not prepared for. He is a player without confidence and is undoubtedly shaken about the state of the team, the offense, himself, and now fan pressure all on top of the Tebow distraction.

    I felt he was handling the Tebow distraction well, but with players out every week, and then young players not yet ready for prime time roles not performing consistently, it has hurt the entire offense. I don't think it would have mattered who was running the offense, the QB would have been impacted.

    But fans don't see this, they only see Sanchez, the only answer is he must suck.

    It's wrong IMO.

    He needs a break mentally, the benching could be good for him.

    I'm still hopeful being on the road can give him a break from the fans, and that Rex gives him a shot to get back on his feet this week.

    Still a Sanchez fan, but he needs to get himself right mentally, he needs his confidence back. It would better if fans could STFU and help instead of hurting the process.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Mark Sanchez was terrific in the 4 playoff wins, was the best Jet on the field in the 2 losses. In his worst playoff game, he led a last minute drive to vanquish Peyton Manning out of Indianapolis.

    The reason for the two AFCCG losses is that Rex Ryan's supposedly stellar defense failed to show up and gave up 41 unanswered points in back-to-back halves of both of those games.

    Do not forget that the Jets go 7-9 in 2009 if not for the Colts laying down and the Jets go 7-9 again in 2010 if not for Mark Sanchez bailing out the pathetic defense in 4 games with miracle 2:00 drills.

    This team was built to win on defense and the running game. They suck at both. The quarterback is the least of our concerns. Replacing him is not our ticket to Lombardi.

    SAR I
    Cromartie's 50 yard kickoff return and Braylons bail out catch on a yet again high ball were more important than Mark for that win. Also lets not forget Marks fumble TD that really sealed the champ game loss in Pitt. Mark can't be trusted to win in a shootout which is an absolute must for any QB in this league right now. Even Luck and RGIII have shown the ability to do this. Please name one game where Mark won strictly on offense. There isn't any.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Danza View Post
    Cromartie's 50 yard kickoff return and Braylons bail out catch on a yet again high ball were more important than Mark for that win. Also lets not forget Marks fumble TD that really sealed the champ game loss in Pitt. Mark can't be trusted to win in a shootout which is an absolute must for any QB in this league right now. Even Luck and RGIII have shown the ability to do this. Please name one game where Mark won strictly on offense. There isn't any.
    The Bears game was really the only instance where you could say Mark was going back and forth with Cutler(our defense sucked that day)....and even then he threw a bad pick to end the game.

  4. #104
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    Lightbulb POOR DRAFTS AND PERSONNEL DECISIONS HURT SANCHEZ AND JETS

    WWW.TURNONTHEJETS.COM
    =Two poor drafts made worse by poor self-scouting set the table in a big way for the current issues. However, don’t forget the ill-fated chase for Asomugha. Remember, the Jets could have just re-signed Cromartie and they would have been fine. Instead they needed the “name” and they needed to be in the Asomugha chase. They lost and had to pay Cromartie an even bigger contract in the long run as “apology money.” What was worse is that in the process of going after Asomugha, they guaranteed money on contracts for Bart Scott and Calvin Pace to free up cap space, players on the downside of their career. They also went cheap at wide receiver and offensive line, ignoring the necessity of keeping talent around Sanchez and receivers that he had built chemistry with.

    They began paying the price last year and are really paying it now. Scott and Pace are past their primes and aren’t equipped to start in this league anymore. The Jets didn’t want to pay Braylon Edwards, Jerricho Cotchery or Brad Smith. They went “name” and got Plaxico Burress and Derrick Mason on relatively low cost deals. They floundered and now the Jets are starting from scratch again at receiver. The “plan” to replace Damien Woody and Alan Fancea was Ducasse and Wayne Hunter. Poor self-scouting by planning on handing jobs to two incompetent players.

    Where does this leave them now? A mess. Below average players weighing down the cap with bloated contracts. The Tim Tebow trade was a PR-stunt to distract attention from a roster with glaring holes all over the place. Rex Ryan isn’t built to handle adversity like this and seems at a complete loss on how to handle such an untalented team. You can’t bluster wins which is what he is trying to do. He knew this team lacked talent but couldn’t talk down expectations because that’s not who he is. He also failed by hiring Tony Sparano to coach his offense, foolishly sticking to the “Ground and Pound” theory in a league that is moving away from that trend.

    The logical move is to fire General Manager Mike Tannenbaum and completely rebuild the personnel department. Let your new GM improve the scouting, let him make a decision on Rex and the quarterback position. Let me oversee the gutting of this roster, which should see the departure of the following starters: Bart Scott, Calvin Pace, Bryan Thomas, Matt Slauson, Austin Howard, Shonn Greene, Lex Hilliard, and Brandon Moore.

    There is no half-measure solutions. This roster needs to be turned over completely and rebuilt through strong drafts and wise decisions in free agency. There are a few scraps on this roster who have long term potential who will be useful moving forward (Muhammad Wilkerson, Jeremy Kerley, Quinton Coples, Demario Davis to name a few) but beyond that it is burn to the ground time.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonEJet View Post
    2009, Jets have Cotch, and Chansi Stuckey as the starting WR's. Tanny makes deal dor Braylon Edwards

    2010 Tanny trades 5th round draft pick for Santonio Holmes~~Brings in HOF RB Ladanian Tomlinson to sure up backfield

    Not too sure Sanchez was ignored
    Exactly, lets build on this because we were 1 game away from the superbowl. 2011...we get fresh from prison Plax, has been Mason (for 5 games only haha). No Braylon arguable the best WR talent wise since Coles, and Cotch who plays like a Jet with no quit, and lets get rid of Brad Smith who seems to get at least 5-6 yards running the wildcat. Keep drafting Defensive players like Wilson, (Coleman was a baller for us).

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I am so tired of this "we are built on having a good defense and dont have one". Are there teams out there that said "lets forget the defense"? No there arent.

    Here is a list of the Giants picks since they got Eli

    2004 Eli Manning
    2005 Corey Webster (2nd Round) CB LSU
    2006 Mathias Kiwanuka DE Boston College
    2007 Aaron Ross CB Texas
    2008 Kenny Phillips S Miami
    2009 Hakeem Nicks WR North Carolina
    2010 Jason Pierre-Paul DE South Florida
    2011 Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska
    2012 David Wilson

    If you notice, in the 8 years since they drafted their Qb they took 2 offensive players in the first round. If you also notice, there are some "busts" in there like aaron ross, yet somehow they managed to win 2 super bowls.

    Great QBs make average teams great. QBs like mark sanchez make average teams terrible
    I see your point but you forgot that during the middle of Eli's career he had Shockey, Plax (in his Prime), Barber (led the league in rushing), and a nice player in Toomer.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMJets View Post
    Exactly, lets build on this because we were 1 game away from the superbowl. 2011...we get fresh from prison Plax, has been Mason (for 5 games only haha). No Braylon arguable the best WR talent wise since Coles, and Cotch who plays like a Jet with no quit, and lets get rid of Brad Smith who seems to get at least 5-6 yards running the wildcat. Keep drafting Defensive players like Wilson, (Coleman was a baller for us).
    Braylon had 15 catches for 34 yards last year and was injured.

    Why should we have brought back an injured player who was unable to contribute in 2011 and has been unable to crack the top 4 in the seattle WR corps in 2012?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMJets View Post
    I see your point but you forgot that during the middle of Eli's career he had Shockey, Plax (in his Prime), Barber (led the league in rushing), and a nice player in Toomer.
    And we went out and got Santonio (equally talented and equally a bad "locker room guy" as plax is) and braylon, yet where was the improvement.

    Sanchez completion % in his 4 years are 54%, 55%, 57%, 55% If surronding him with talent and oline was the key, why arent his numbers that much better in the years we gave him great WRs or led the league in rushing?

  9. #109
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    Where did the train jump off the tracks? IMMEDIATELY... because the Jets should never have moved up in the draft to get him in the first place. They've spent $60+ million on this player over the last four seasons when they could have spent that money on improving their O-line, WR's, RB's, TE's and whatever else they're lacking in right now. They would have been better off sticking with Clemens and building a monster offense around him than signing this kid on the side of a Wheaties box and hoping he would carry the team to victory on sheer will alone.

  10. #110
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    The guy was never that good to begin with. He needs LOADS of support to be good. He could never carry a team and be the focal point.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSpleen View Post
    The guy was never that good to begin with. He needs LOADS of support to be good. He could never carry a team and be the focal point.
    Yeah, I'm not sure why some people act like he was a good player his 1st and 2nd seasons. They're only remembering a couple of his playoff performances and not the whole body of work. Sanchez was very much terrible as a rookie, he threw 12 TDs v. 20 INTs and was arguably the worst QB in the league that year. His 2nd year was probably his best season to date because he limited the INTs down to 13 and had a few come from behind victories. He was hardly a good QB though as he was still one of the lowest rated passers in the league and had a low completion percentage. He also did not throw for many yards.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure why some people act like he was a good player his 1st and 2nd seasons. They're only remembering a couple of his playoff performances and not the whole body of work. Sanchez was very much terrible as a rookie, he threw 12 TDs v. 20 INTs and was arguably the worst QB in the league that year. His 2nd year was probably his best season to date because he limited the INTs down to 13 and had a few come from behind victories. He was hardly a good QB though as he was still one of the lowest rated passers in the league and had a low completion percentage. He also did not throw for many yards.
    if the colts didn't sit peyton that game the jets wouldn't have made the playoffs his 2nd year. if that had happened it may have changed how sanchez was perceived, right or wrong. the reality is that rarely a week goes by where i don't wish the qb the jets were playing was on our team.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    And we went out and got Santonio (equally talented and equally a bad "locker room guy" as plax is) and braylon, yet where was the improvement.

    Sanchez completion % in his 4 years are 54%, 55%, 57%, 55% If surronding him with talent and oline was the key, why arent his numbers that much better in the years we gave him great WRs or led the league in rushing?
    Guess whose completion % is 48%, 53%, 58%, 56% with arguably a better offense from skill positions and coaching.
    Im not making excuses for Sanchez and have said that he probably couldn't hit the broad side of a barn consistently ( look it up) , but when he does make a good throw on occasion the receiver drops it , and I don't think that his receivers can get open on a consistent basis. Brian Billick mentioned it in the last game, forcing Mark to hold the ball longer. If you want him to be a game manager and be safe with the ball and try not to make plays with it ie throw it away, then be prepared to make excuses for the defense being tired because there will be a lot more three and outs.
    Actually prepare for McElroy to be coached not to lose the game and watch the same 3 and out over and over again....I hope Im wrong though.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMJets View Post
    Guess whose completion % is 48%, 53%, 58%, 56% with arguably a better offense from skill positions and coaching.
    Im not making excuses for Sanchez and have said that he probably couldn't hit the broad side of a barn consistently ( look it up) , but when he does make a good throw on occasion the receiver drops it , and I don't think that his receivers can get open on a consistent basis. Brian Billick mentioned it in the last game, forcing Mark to hold the ball longer. If you want him to be a game manager and be safe with the ball and try not to make plays with it ie throw it away, then be prepared to make excuses for the defense being tired because there will be a lot more three and outs.
    Actually prepare for McElroy to be coached not to lose the game and watch the same 3 and out over and over again....I hope Im wrong though.
    we may actually find out more about sanchez if mcelroy starts with the same crappy team, and can complete a higher % of the passes and actually move the ball.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    we may actually find out more about sanchez if mcelroy starts with the same crappy team, and can complete a higher % of the passes and actually move the ball.
    EXACTLY.

    Hopefully this will be another outlet to judge the other players on the Offensive side of the ball.

    Its really for the best of the team's development.

  16. #116
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    Sanchez Must be accountable for his play.Enough with the excuses.

    I think it comes down to study habits. He always lets the corner blitz get him into a sack,TO,or INT. He has talent as good as Mannings, Brady, Shaub. He as just doesn't study as hard as those guys. he is terrible on the dump off/screen pass. He almost never throws his receivers open and has regressed in reading defenses. His OC this year has made a point o geting to the line quicker but he doesn't seem to be able too read and expoilt the defenses he sees either pre or post snap. He takes way too much time in making a decision with the ball. Like good hitters in baseball they adjust when great pitchers make adjustment to them he hasn't and probably won't adjust his game to great defenses. Plus he panics why too much at the hint of pressure real or imagined instead of looking for the open man down the field. His accuracy just hasn't approved and probably never will no matter the coach or system.

  17. #117
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    How about Sanchez just sucks?

    Anyone ever think of that?

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by njherdfan View Post
    Look at Sanchez's stats. It's scary EXACTLY how similar they are each year. He's never been good, and now he has worse skill position players, so he looks even worse. I think you'd be hard pressed to identify one area where he has clearly improved since his rookie year.
    So you're saying Sanchez is no good? That's far too simple a premise; I mean, what about that one time on Hard Knocks when he yelled at Schotty?

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    if the colts didn't sit peyton that game the jets wouldn't have made the playoffs his 2nd year. if that had happened it may have changed how sanchez was perceived, right or wrong. the reality is that rarely a week goes by where i don't wish the qb the jets were playing was on our team.
    it was a 15-10 game in the 3rd quarter. That game could have been won even with Peyton staying in the game.

  20. #120
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    I'm tired of excuses. Have things been perfect for Sanchez? No. But he didn't exactly light things up in his first two seasons when he was surrounded by the kind of talent the Sanchanista's claim he needs to succeed.

    Why was McElroy able to complete 5-7 passes when he was plugged into the same inept offense that hampers Sanchez? ...And McElroy is not very good.

    Comparing Sanchez's play to that of a lightly regarded McElroy with the same personnel against the same exact D is quite damning.

    Sanchez 10 drives 45 plays 4.5 plays/drive 164 yards 3.64 yards/play
    McElroy 4 drives 29 plays 7.25 plays/drive 146 yards 5.03 yards/play

    This is why the Jets are actually considering replacing the 5th overall pick in the 2009 draft, who has started every game (except 1) over the past 3.5 seasons, with the 208th of the 2011 draft, who has never started a game and was on IR his rookie year. This speaks volumes to the inept play of Sanchez.

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