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Thread: Jets in the second round of the draft.

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    Substitute Gholston with Aldon Smith. Now imagine our defense.

    Both were #6 picks. Obviously you have to give credit to the 49ers for taking the right player and give blame to the Jets for taking the wrong one. But, they were both roundly considered the appropriate pick in their respective slots. Its not like the 49ers did anything that any of us here couldn't have done. One panned out. One didn't.
    I think Smith was pick 7. In any event, SF deserves a ton of credit for that pick IMO because QB was among their biggest needs (it has been fairly obvious from day 1 that Alex Smith was never Harbaugh's guy) and Blaine Gabbert was the closest thing to "chalk" with pick 7. IIRC, Smith was rarely, if ever, in the top 10 of any pre-draft mocks.

    So instead of taking Gabbert or one of the other highly-touted QB's (Locker, etc.) with its pick, SF made a slight reach with Smith and then traded up in the second round for a QB. I think the typical armchair GM (myself included) would have taken someone other than Smith with that pick.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCEastFan View Post
    I think Smith was pick 7. In any event, SF deserves a ton of credit for that pick IMO because QB was among their biggest needs (it has been fairly obvious from day 1 that Alex Smith was never Harbaugh's guy) and Blaine Gabbert was the closest thing to "chalk" with pick 7. IIRC, Smith was rarely, if ever, in the top 10 of any pre-draft mocks.

    So instead of taking Gabbert or one of the other highly-touted QB's (Locker, etc.) with its pick, SF made a slight reach with Smith and then traded up in the second round for a QB. I think the typical armchair GM (myself included) would have taken someone other than Smith with that pick.
    Thats what good teams do. IF they do not like a guy that high, then do not draft him there. The excuse that there was no one else for the Jets to draft but Gholston at that spot is a poor one. If they truly thought he wasnt worth the pick, then they should have gone another way. Drafting a guy because he is the consensus pick even though you do not like him is a recipe for disaster. I really hope the Jets DID think highly of Gholston, because the alternative of drafting a guy that high that you do not believe in, just because it is what everyone thinks should be done is comical.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Thats what good teams do. IF they do not like a guy that high, then do not draft him there. The excuse that there was no one else for the Jets to draft but Gholston at that spot is a poor one. If they truly thought he wasnt worth the pick, then they should have gone another way. Drafting a guy because he is the consensus pick even though you do not like him is a recipe for disaster. I really hope the Jets DID think highly of Gholston, because the alternative of drafting a guy that high that you do not believe in, just because it is what everyone thinks should be done is comical.
    Ive made this argument before and stand by it....it is completely different for a GM making a top pick when his job and career are on the line.

    If Gholston is the "consensus" (and I dont mean mel kiper, I mean in the NFL community) and he takes him and misses, then ok....its very bad obviously, but as we can see, you dont get fired for making the "safe" pick.

    However, if you pass on gholston (the consensus) and he turns into JPP that gets you fired, plain and simple. The media/fan backlash for "reaching" or "outsmarting yourself" is too much for a GM to withstand and they lose invariably lose their job over it.

    We as fans want everything to be about th team etc....these guys making the picks are people and they have careers to worry about just like all of us.

    I highly doubt any of the monday morning GMs here would have passed on the "drafts best pass rusher" for jerod mayo when they were on the clock

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Ive made this argument before and stand by it....it is completely different for a GM making a top pick when his job and career are on the line.

    If Gholston is the "consensus" (and I dont mean mel kiper, I mean in the NFL community) and he takes him and misses, then ok....its very bad obviously, but as we can see, you dont get fired for making the "safe" pick.

    However, if you pass on gholston (the consensus) and he turns into JPP that gets you fired, plain and simple. The media/fan backlash for "reaching" or "outsmarting yourself" is too much for a GM to withstand and they lose invariably lose their job over it.

    We as fans want everything to be about th team etc....these guys making the picks are people and they have careers to worry about just like all of us.

    I highly doubt any of the monday morning GMs here would have passed on the "drafts best pass rusher" for jerod mayo when they were on the clock
    I get that GMs make decisions based on the level of risk or scrutiny the decision will receive, thats what separates the good ones from the bad. The good ones trust their evaluations and take the guy THEY think will turn out to be the better player. Making picks based on consensus and what would not be second guessed as much is not what good GMs do.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop24 View Post
    Like all in all it's was a great move both players just didn't work out for us..
    Scoop, I respect you as a poster, but your comment above is one of the funniest things I have ever seen on this forum!

    It's like the doctor saying, "The operation was a success, but the patient died."
    Last edited by Jet Blast; 12-04-2012 at 03:20 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Who was worse, Hobson or Schlegel???
    Huh? Hobson was a good player for a few yrs. Schlagel didn't make it to yr 2

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Ive made this argument before and stand by it....it is completely different for a GM making a top pick when his job and career are on the line.

    If Gholston is the "consensus" (and I dont mean mel kiper, I mean in the NFL community) and he takes him and misses, then ok....its very bad obviously, but as we can see, you dont get fired for making the "safe" pick.

    However, if you pass on gholston (the consensus) and he turns into JPP that gets you fired, plain and simple. The media/fan backlash for "reaching" or "outsmarting yourself" is too much for a GM to withstand and they lose invariably lose their job over it.

    We as fans want everything to be about th team etc....these guys making the picks are people and they have careers to worry about just like all of us.

    I highly doubt any of the monday morning GMs here would have passed on the "drafts best pass rusher" for jerod mayo when they were on the clock
    There was a LOT of talk about Gholstens poor work ethic etc. BUT...I get your point and it is true. YET..

    The OP's point and original post points to our glaring weakness. we trade away so many picks we have a below avergage chance in the draft mathematically. THEN...we reach for development players.

    While CMARTs point is excellent that we have to develop these players, they are still developmental.

    I would rather we keep our picks and draft talent. The amont of 2nd rd picks we did NOT have was alarming.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    I KNOW EXACTLY what I am talking about. Perhaps YOU need help in understanding the subtleties of the English language.
    Hobson and Clemens WERE 4th rounders selected STUPIDLY by the Jets in the 2nd.
    Keller was 1st. You ARE where you are picked.
    Cromartie was a trade. Not a pick. Essentially a salary and character dump.
    So if 'you ARE where you are picked' then Hobson and Clemens are 2nd rounders no?

  9. #49
    The Jets have had 9 Top 10 draft picks since 1984.

    Russell Carter
    Al Toon
    Dave Cadigan
    Blair Thomas
    Keyshawn Johnson
    Dewayne Robertson
    D'Brickashaw Ferguson
    Vernon Gholston
    Mark Sanchez

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Who was worse, Hobson or Schlegel???
    Kyle Brady

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Whats bad about the Hobson pick was that the 2 of the next 3 picks right after Hobson that year were Anquan Boldin and Osi Umenyiora.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snell41 View Post
    I couldn't stand Hobson. I was embarrassed he was actually starting for us, yet alot of fans liked him for some reason. We cut him finally, the Pats gave him a short preseason sniff and cut him as well. From there not one team picked him up for a look even though he was like 27/28 years old in the prime of his career. It was mind boggling how bad he was.
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Who was worse, Hobson or Schlegel???
    Schlegel was obviously worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Huh? Hobson was a good player for a few yrs. Schlagel didn't make it to yr 2
    This is what I'm talking about. Hobson was never a good player. Ever. Some fans think he was because he happened to start for us but he was godawful. I just don't understand the love/hate Jets fans have for players. A guy like Hobson herps and derps his entire career and yet some fans actually liked him. Hobson got cut, uninjured, got a look from the Pats and then was out of the league at 28 years old in his prime. He was TERRIBLE!

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Snell41 View Post
    Schlegel was obviously worse.



    This is what I'm talking about. Hobson was never a good player. Ever. Some fans think he was because he happened to start for us but he was godawful. I just don't understand the love/hate Jets fans have for players. A guy like Hobson herps and derps his entire career and yet some fans actually liked him. Hobson got cut, uninjured, got a look from the Pats and then was out of the league at 28 years old in his prime. He was TERRIBLE!
    Ok. You say so. He fit Herms D. Once Mangini came in he didn't fit his 3-4
    Last edited by C Mart; 12-04-2012 at 03:54 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    I KNOW EXACTLY what I am talking about. Perhaps YOU need help in understanding the subtleties of the English language.
    Hobson and Clemens WERE 4th rounders selected STUPIDLY by the Jets in the 2nd.
    Keller was 1st. You ARE where you are picked.
    Cromartie was a trade. Not a pick. Essentially a salary and character dump.
    How is "you are where you're picked" literally one line below your Vic and Kellen explanations for why they aren't 2nd rounders even though that's where they were picked?

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