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Thread: To all the people who say Rex and Tanny suck at drafting

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Kotch View Post
    Tanny doesn't "suck at drafting" but I do think its time to give someone else personnel responsibilities and plan for long-term.

    Tanny did an adequate job of stocking us up for the 2009/2010 playoff runs, but now the roster's older, that window of oppt'y has closed and we need someone new to find us a QB and also build the organization's long term drafting/acquisition strategy which it does not seem like we currently possess.

    What this Jets team needs more than anything, is a top-down philosophy/mission statement from the GM that can help guide decisions in good times and in bad.

    Sounds cheesy, and most people roll their eyes--but having a philosophy and using that to guide your actions when sh*t hits the fan is what all of the great GMs (and coaches) do.

    I too feel that someone with a strong football background is a good idea for the Jets moving forward.

    Someone that has a background that combines at least some of this mix:

    1) Former college and/or NFL player.

    2) A Coach...HC...Scout, at either the College and/or NFL level.

    3) Someone with NFL GM experience...or the equivolent of this at the college level.

    4) He also must have a good reputation for talent evaluation and development. This one is very crucial.


    This individual must also be someone that has a clear vision for this NYJ team, based on his strong background of football experience. And a plan on how to achieve it.

    I don't care if he's not very good at CAPOLOGY. Someone like Tanny can manage the CAP, and crunch the numbers in contract negotiations.

    I would expect this 'Director Of Football Operations' (or GM if you like) to be an individual that is fully in charge of the draft. And has final say on FA and trade acquisitions.

    This individual should be at times a facilitator of what the HC wants for improving the team. Be it acquiring specific players or targeting specific positions. Or the acquiring of consultants...coaches, or whatever it may be.

    But at other times...the Director may have to interact with the HC, in a adversarial capacity. Objecting to carrying on the roster, the HC's favorite players, that are underperforming, to the detriment of the team. Saying no to overpaying for players, that can't live up to their CAP value.

    No to Tebowmania trade acquisitions, either for Woody PSL's. Or for a Rex cockamamie idea, that would waste a valuable draft pick, for very questionable gains. No more 'Terminater' picks allowed. Instead look for a James Casey type of FB...picked in the 5th round a few years ago, who plays for the Texans. A player that can block for Arian Foster. And also can release from the backfield and catch it too. Currently with 30 catches for a 10 yd avg. and 3 TD's.

    No pursuing an Asomugha type of player, when the amount needed to spend for him, would put the CAP allocation for that position way over budget. You simply have to disappoint Rex and say no. And move on for an alternative...like a Cromartie. Who the Jets could've lost because of time wasted on Aso.

    Don't overpay a ridiculous amount of money for a dubious character like Holmes...in order to please your HC. Especially since all along... nobody else was competing with you for his services. Offer him a reasonable CAP friendly figure...or tell Santonio goodbye and move on. Taking this approach...means you either re-sign both Braylon Edwards and Holmes to affordable contracts. Or you just re-sign Edwards. Cause Braylon wasn't going to make ridiculous contract demands...he genuinely wanted to stay with the Jets.

    Also...this Director would know that the particular skill set of Edwards vs that of Holmes, was more important to maintaining balance to the offense. Cause BE's deep threat presence would make it more difficult to play 8+ defense in the box...when you have to defend that deep ball threat. This would've allowed the running game a chance to be more effective. And it would also allow Keller and kerley more room, to work the short-intermediate routes more effectively too. Braylon should've been a GM's primary re-sign target, for those reasons alone.

    Obviously to make this work, the Director and HC, need to be fully on the same page. The HC needs to agree with the philosophy and direction that the Director wants the Jets to embark on.

    Now would such an individual be eager to work with Rex? I would hope so...cause I still think that Rex can compete against Belichick and Brady better then most HC's currently in the NFL. For me...that's an important litmus test for any candidate for HC NYJ. If Rex had the talent level that Kubiak (who was thoroughly out coached by BB) has with the Texans...Rex wouldn't be 3-6 vs the Pats. More likely Jets would've gone from 3-2 to 5-4 instead. Maybe even better. But that's my opinion.

    Anyway...you get the idea. IMO...there shouldn't be a strong objection to an individual for Jets GM...that has a vast football background. And a good reputation for talent evaluation and development.

    This guy may not be easy to find. But...as I see it...this should be the future course for the NYJ.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by jetman67 View Post
    The Jets record speaks for the level of talent. Its more than just the RT. He has been serviceable, I wouldnt say that everything is just fine. We are most likely not making the playoffs again. (Yeah, we are alive, but on life support)

    The offense is NOT talented. They score a average of 10 points per game.

    This team overall is pure garbage.
    I wonder if the QB play has anything to do with it.

    Look, tanny deserves to be bashed for certain things, mainly taking away our ability to use the franhise tag from revis and guaranteeing, and then not having an offset in sanchezs contract. Thoses are HUGE mistakes.

    But he built a "win now" team for 2010, and hoped that as the players on that team aged and their play dropped off, it would be offset by improved play at the QB position and that didnt happen. If sanchez had turned into a 60% passer, cut the fumbles from 7 to 2 and had zero red zone ints, we would firmly be in playoff position this year.

    But to say our last few drafts "suck" is very short sighted.

  3. #103
    Kyle Wilson is the starting corner on a team ranked third in pass defense, but he stinks. Slauson if you watch him run blocks and pass blocks very well, and alot of teams will show interest in him as a free agent. he was a 7th round pick. Kerley is a very good slot receiver, anybody who doesn't think so, knows nothing about football, like most people on this forum.What most of you are saying that unless your a pro bowler, you not a good draft pick, thats laughable.Mo Wilkerson is a beast, if you can't see that, you don't know anything about football,Coples is a beast, still a little raw and lazy, but he's a pro bowl caliber player.Mcnight up until this year was in the top 5 in kick return average in the league, but he stinks too, give it up!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I wonder if the QB play has anything to do with it.

    Look, tanny deserves to be bashed for certain things, mainly taking away our ability to use the franhise tag from revis and guaranteeing, and then not having an offset in sanchezs contract. Thoses are HUGE mistakes.

    But he built a "win now" team for 2010, and hoped that as the players on that team aged and their play dropped off, it would be offset by improved play at the QB position and that didnt happen. If sanchez had turned into a 60% passer, cut the fumbles from 7 to 2 and had zero red zone ints, we would firmly be in playoff position this year.

    But to say our last few drafts "suck" is very short sighted.
    Agreed, Sanchez is not developing the way we would like to see. On the other side of the coin, we have had a very large number of dropped passes that should have been caught. If our receivers cant catch the ball, then we need to upgrade to pro quality receivers who will be reliable.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by 3rd_Times_A_Charm View Post
    2009
    Mark Sanchez - Horrible contract, worst starting QB in NFL, gone after 2014
    Shonn Greene - will not be back in 2013
    Matt Slauson - will not be back in 2013

    2010

    Kyle Wilson - nickel back, gone after rookie contract ends
    Vlad Ducasse - bust, drafted in round two for minimal playing time, gone after rookie contract ends
    Joe McKnight - oft injured KR, occaisional RB
    John Conner - gone
    Santonio Holmes - starting WR, bad contract, bad attitude, may not be back in 2013
    2011
    Mo Wilkerson - starting DE, hey we got one right!
    Antonio Cromartie - starting CB only $13 mil per year on the extension
    Kenrick Ellis - backup oft injured DT
    Bilal Powell - sharing RB duties will take over next year unless improvement is found
    Jeremy Kerley - Starting WR could become very good # 3 WR going forward
    Greg McElroy - Scrub QB
    Scotty McKnight - gone

    2012

    Quinton Coples - DE / OLB hybrid comes off bench, too soon to tell
    Stephen Hill - WR, on IR good size and speed but can't catch, too soon to tell
    Demario Davis - backup MLB, too soon to tell
    Josh Bush - backup S
    Terrence Ganaway - gone
    Robert Griffin - gone
    Antonio Allen - backup S
    Jordan White - WR, does this guy ever play?
    Fixed it for you.

    The 2011 draft & Cromartie trade look pretty good. Our rookie class has some potential. 2009 & 2010 were horrible drafts leaving us with at best a kickoff returner and a nickel CB after the rookie contracts expire.

    Aside from the wasted draft picks in 2009 / 2010 it has also been frustrating that we have to pay a high premium to get our free agents to resign (Revis, Cromartie, Holmes, Brick, Harris, Mangold, Sanchez etc. getting $8-14 mil per year). Where is the home town discount? Does anyone want to play here? With a player's coach like Rex I thought free agents would be flocking here.

    Why does New England seem to get similar talent for half the price?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3rd_Times_A_Charm View Post
    I just have to ask: In what world are you living?

    2009

    Mark Sanchez - starting QB
    Shonn Greene - starting RB
    Matt Slauson - starting LG


    2010

    Kyle Wilson - starting CB
    Vlad Ducasse - backup LG (okay, he does suck)
    Joe McKnight - starting KR
    John Conner - gone
    Santonio Holmes - starting WR. Traded a 5th rounder this year for him


    2011

    Mo Wilkerson - starting DE
    Antonio Cromartie - starting CB. Traded a 2nd rounder this year for him
    Kenrick Ellis - backup DT
    Bilal Powell - starting RB
    Jeremy Kerley - starting WR
    Greg McElroy - Won a game for us. If it wasn't for him we wouldn't be making a run for the playoffs
    Scotty McKnight - gone

    2012

    Quinton Coples - starting/backup DE. Hard to tell really. He gets a lot of reps.
    Stephen Hill - starting WR
    Demario Davis - starting MLB
    Josh Bush - backup S
    Terrence Ganaway - gone
    Robert Griffin - gone
    Antonio Allen - backup S
    Jordan White - backup WR

    So... I just have to say: What the **** are you people thinking?

    Look it over. They have drafted studs every year. Even including this most recent draft, we have people starting on our team from every single draft in the past 4 years. What else could you ask for?

    Out of 23 draft picks, 19 of them are still on our team in contributing roles. 13 of them are starting or are getting lots of reps. 2009, 2011, and 2012 have all been stellar drafts that got us multiple good starters. Look at the 2011 draft and then tell me Tanny doesn't know what he's doing. Wilkerson, Cro, Ellis, Powell, Kerley.

    Clearly, you are wrong. What do you have to say for yourselves?
    What world are we living? What world are you living? Where do you see "Studs" anywhere in that list? This year they drafted 8 players Copels is pretty good but no stud, and Stephen Hill has flashes but hurt all the time and has stone hands!

    Wilkerson is Ok but no stud! ANd that is about it all the rest would be back ups on any other team!

    Mike has to go!

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I wonder if the QB play has anything to do with it.

    Look, tanny deserves to be bashed for certain things, mainly taking away our ability to use the franhise tag from revis and guaranteeing, and then not having an offset in sanchezs contract. Thoses are HUGE mistakes.

    But he built a "win now" team for 2010, and hoped that as the players on that team aged and their play dropped off, it would be offset by improved play at the QB position and that didnt happen. If sanchez had turned into a 60% passer, cut the fumbles from 7 to 2 and had zero red zone ints, we would firmly be in playoff position this year.

    But to say our last few drafts "suck" is very short sighted.
    With the piss poor year Sanchez had this year the offset is moot. But your right in that it was just 6 or 7 blunders over the last 2 years things that sent the jets back to the pack.

    1st. Sanchez failure to develop
    2nd Revis contract
    3rd Ducasse
    4th Holmes being an ass
    5th Pace, Scotts and Smith's contract structures
    6th The Tebow-Manning-Aso PR debacle and the resulting fallout, Sanchez extenion, paying Cro more, Sanchez psyche
    7th ignoring the offense.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I wonder if the QB play has anything to do with it.

    Look, tanny deserves to be bashed for certain things, mainly taking away our ability to use the franhise tag from revis and guaranteeing, and then not having an offset in sanchezs contract. Thoses are HUGE mistakes.

    But he built a "win now" team for 2010, and hoped that as the players on that team aged and their play dropped off, it would be offset by improved play at the QB position and that didnt happen. If sanchez had turned into a 60% passer, cut the fumbles from 7 to 2 and had zero red zone ints, we would firmly be in playoff position this year.

    But to say our last few drafts "suck" is very short sighted.
    The drafts have been AT BEST average. that equates to the record you see. 8 and 8 last year and probably same this year.

  9. #109
    Only really bad draft Tanny ahs had was 2010 when he struck out on both Wilson and Ducasse. I think that draft was the result of victory disease after almost making it to the Super Bowl the previous year with his draft pick Sanchez at QB. Tanny thought he was bulletproof so he could take a DB from Boise St round 1 and a project OG from UMASS in rd 2 while passing on an NFL caliber starting NT in Terrence Cody both rounds.


    2008 was the other really bad year though it somehow gets overlooked. Gholston was an epic bust and Keller never lived up to the hype.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_Pez View Post
    What world are we living? What world are you living? Where do you see "Studs" anywhere in that list? This year they drafted 8 players Copels is pretty good but no stud, and Stephen Hill has flashes but hurt all the time and has stone hands!

    Wilkerson is Ok but no stud! ANd that is about it all the rest would be back ups on any other team!

    Mike has to go!
    Anyone who has watched Wilk this season and says he's OK is someone that shouldn't be judging players.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Anyone who has watched Wilk this season and says he's OK is someone that shouldn't be judging players.
    Hill will be a stud.......

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by James Hasty View Post
    Fixed it for you.

    The 2011 draft & Cromartie trade look pretty good. Our rookie class has some potential. 2009 & 2010 were horrible drafts leaving us with at best a kickoff returner and a nickel CB after the rookie contracts expire.

    Aside from the wasted draft picks in 2009 / 2010 it has also been frustrating that we have to pay a high premium to get our free agents to resign (Revis, Cromartie, Holmes, Brick, Harris, Mangold, Sanchez etc. getting $8-14 mil per year). Where is the home town discount? Does anyone want to play here? With a player's coach like Rex I thought free agents would be flocking here.

    Why does New England seem to get similar talent for half the price?
    Where is the hometown discount? LOL. Why should a football player give a hometown discount when they can get hurt the next play and done for their career.

    And would you give your employer a hometown discount?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Where is the hometown discount? LOL. Why should a football player give a hometown discount when they can get hurt the next play and done for their career.

    And would you give your employer a hometown discount?
    The Hometown discount may actually make sense if it is a very mild discount.

    2-5% possibly. Re locating is difficult man. Then again what is 2-5% of the 35 million a year he will be looking for coming off a serious injury.

  14. #114
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    How to figure out "WTF" people are talking about when assessing Tanny as a bad drafted:

    1) Look at all players drafted, as the OP did.

    2) Look at those players current role on the team, as the OP did

    3) Count how many of those players are starters, which the OP did

    4) Count how many players he drafted that have provided sufficient depth, you know in case injuries happen........ O wait, tanny didnt do that... ever.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Hill will be a stud.......
    Guy has loads of potential. His hands seem to be improving steadily, so that's a good sign. Also seems like a real team player and has a great attitude. Also seems to play physical in his run blocking.

  16. #116
    Cocaine is a hell of a drug. Not one pro bowl, game changing leader in the bunch. 90+% of these would not start on most nfl teams.

  17. #117
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    Honestly, no Mike T and Rex Ryan together have produced 1 awesome pick:

    Wilkerson

    1 good pick kerley

    5 solid/decent: Slauson, Ellis, McKnight, Greene, Powell

    And 6 terrible picks: Sanchez, Vlad, Kyle Wilson, John Conner, Robert Griffin, Ganaway

    the rest are unknown at this point.

  18. #118
    Good thread.

    A couple of other killer mistakes. Tanny's a UMASS alum. He sends some scout up there who comes back and reports to him that he should draft VLAD and not Victor Cruz? AYFKM?

    And then there's the case of Miles Austin. The guy plays football less than 60 miles from FP and we don't have a bead on him and see his talent? That's inexcusable.

    No worries though, Tanny drafted Sanchez's buddy Scotty McKnight, presumably because Mark did the scouting for Tanny.

    Horrid.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlairThomasFumble View Post
    Good thread.

    A couple of other killer mistakes. Tanny's a UMASS alum. He sends some scout up there who comes back and reports to him that he should draft VLAD and not Victor Cruz? AYFKM?

    And then there's the case of Miles Austin. The guy plays football less than 60 miles from FP and we don't have a bead on him and see his talent? That's inexcusable.

    No worries though, Tanny drafted Sanchez's buddy Scotty McKnight, presumably because Mark did the scouting for Tanny.

    Horrid.
    if my memory serves correctly, I do believe the Jets tried to acquire Miles a few years back before he had that blow up year. Cowboys wanted a first round pick I think.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by McElroy14 View Post
    Honestly, no Mike T and Rex Ryan together have produced 1 awesome pick:

    Wilkerson

    1 good pick kerley

    5 solid/decent: Slauson, Ellis, McKnight, Greene, Powell

    And 6 terrible picks: Sanchez, Vlad, Kyle Wilson, John Conner, Robert Griffin, Ganaway

    the rest are unknown at this point.
    I agree with most of your breakdown here. I'd put Wilkerson in the "good" category and Kerley in the "solid" category. I do think both bring a lot to the table and can improve though. All of the others I think are spot on and have peaked to the best of their ability. A couple of those mentioned are not even on the team anymore.

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