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Thread: Newsday: Assessing Mark Sanchez: Experts don't pull any punches

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Monsterxman View Post
    NFL QBs consider themselves a fraternity, so it's not like they would ever bash Sanchez...

    With that said, I really didn't see anyone put their neck out there either for him...
    I didn't get that from the article. What they said was he has the natural skills...

    NO Sh--, he was drafted number 5 overall in the NFL draft. Of course he has an immense natural skill-set. The fact is he hasn't been able to translate that into being a successful NFL QB.

    Nothing really said about the Jets not developing him (other than some guys saying he should be rolling out more)

    It would be EASY to draft NFL QB's if all that was required was Measurables.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Whose opinion should I trust more, actual NFL quarterbacks with combined decades of experience playing the position, or some message board posters?

    Sanchez has a lot of talent and the Jets failed to develop him as a QB.
    +1

    If you've ever heard any of the Michael Kay interviews with Steve Young he has a fantastic opinion that goes something like this:

    1. Defense is like bowling. Takes brute-force, bunch of individual matchups, you can build a defense without worrying how well they perform as a unit because it's such a basic, physical concept.

    2. Offense is like ballet. Takes coordination, takes precision, takes trusted partnerships, takes years of rehearsal with a consistent troupe to put on a fantastic show.

    3. Rex Ryan is taking a defensive approach to offense. Trying to run a ballet like a bowling league. And as a result, Mark Sanchez has never had the right set of receiving targets to get in rhythm with, can't use body language at the line of scrimmage to insinuate a play to a WR or a TE, can't improve just can only get worse.

    Young believes strongly that you can't judge Mark Sanchez right now because the Jets offensive issues are systemic and philosophical, what's on the field isn't ever going to work.

    SAR I

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny Testaverde's Niece View Post
    He was able to make plays in 2009. Watch the clips. Today - not so much. His playmaking ability was coached out of him.
    He has no playmakers.

    Edwards? Nope.

    Holmes? Nope.

    Keller? Nope.

    Burress? Nope.

    Tomlinson? Nope.

    Richardson? Nope.

    Washington? Nope.

    Jones? Nope.

    Mark Sanchez' problems started when these guys got hurt or were let go and were replaced by scrubs.

    SAR I

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop24 View Post
    The overall feeling I get from this article is the jets didn't Do a good job in developing Sanchez ..
    From scheme ,personal , tebow ect..
    +1

  5. #65
    I think Sanchez is Dilfer 2.0 version.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Whose opinion should I trust more, actual NFL quarterbacks with combined decades of experience playing the position, or some message board posters?

    Sanchez has a lot of talent and the Jets failed to develop him as a QB.
    That is an interesting point.


    Despite the fact that I think Mark's days as a Jet are pretty much over(and the only reason he's coming back one more year is because of his contract), I also see where they are coming from.

    Mark was never that accurate of a passer to begin with BUT....when your coaching staff tells you "DON'T DO THIS" on practically everything you're good at in regards to rolling out, running, and ad-libbing(thereby squashing your ability to use your instincts), you HESITATE and THINK TOO MUCH.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    That is an interesting point.


    Despite the fact that I think Mark's days as a Jet are pretty much over(and the only reason he's coming back one more year is because of his contract), I also see where they are coming from.

    Mark was never that accurate of a passer to begin with BUT....when your coaching staff tells you "DON'T DO THIS" on practically everything you're good at in regards to rolling out, running, and ad-libbing(thereby squashing your ability to use your instincts), you HESITATE and THINK TOO MUCH.
    This whole culture of excuse making for the most important position on the field is ridiculous.

    Sanchez simply is NOT a quality NFL QB...

    It's not the Jets CS fault, it's not the talent on the team. He does not have the mental make-up for the role. No coaching could have or would have changed that.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    +1

    If you've ever heard any of the Michael Kay interviews with Steve Young he has a fantastic opinion that goes something like this:

    1. Defense is like bowling. Takes brute-force, bunch of individual matchups, you can build a defense without worrying how well they perform as a unit because it's such a basic, physical concept.

    2. Offense is like ballet. Takes coordination, takes precision, takes trusted partnerships, takes years of rehearsal with a consistent troupe to put on a fantastic show.

    3. Rex Ryan is taking a defensive approach to offense. Trying to run a ballet like a bowling league. And as a result, Mark Sanchez has never had the right set of receiving targets to get in rhythm with, can't use body language at the line of scrimmage to insinuate a play to a WR or a TE, can't improve just can only get worse.

    Young believes strongly that you can't judge Mark Sanchez right now because the Jets offensive issues are systemic and philosophical, what's on the field isn't ever going to work.

    SAR I
    You could have the worlds best Ballet Choreographer and Music but if you don't have a world class Prima Ballerina the ballet is going to bad...

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    +1

    If you've ever heard any of the Michael Kay interviews with Steve Young he has a fantastic opinion that goes something like this:

    1. Defense is like bowling. Takes brute-force, bunch of individual matchups, you can build a defense without worrying how well they perform as a unit because it's such a basic, physical concept.

    2. Offense is like ballet. Takes coordination, takes precision, takes trusted partnerships, takes years of rehearsal with a consistent troupe to put on a fantastic show.

    3. Rex Ryan is taking a defensive approach to offense. Trying to run a ballet like a bowling league. And as a result, Mark Sanchez has never had the right set of receiving targets to get in rhythm with, can't use body language at the line of scrimmage to insinuate a play to a WR or a TE, can't improve just can only get worse.

    Young believes strongly that you can't judge Mark Sanchez right now because the Jets offensive issues are systemic and philosophical, what's on the field isn't ever going to work.

    SAR I
    that sounds like BS to me. when favre came in here we had a top offense immediately. peyton manning goes to denver and they have the #4 total offense in the NFL. RGIII, a ROOKIE, goes to washington and they have the #5 total offense in the league. good QB's are there to make the offense work, not the other way around. maybe if you weren't so blinded by your pathological hatred of rex ryan you'd realize sanchez sucks

  10. #70
    sanchez stinks. i don't care how piss poor the talent is around you, there's no excuse for not completing 60% of his passes and making ridiculous dumb turnovers in YOUR 4th YEAR!!!

    if he had improved in those areas, became a legit leader, and the team stunk because we had no playmakers/talent, I would give sanchez a pass. But he hasn't improved. He is who he is. A career backup. End of story. I can't wait till he's gone so some of you fools can realize how truly bad he was.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    that sounds like BS to me. when favre came in here we had a top offense immediately. peyton manning goes to denver and they have the #4 total offense in the NFL. RGIII, a ROOKIE, goes to washington and they have the #5 total offense in the league. good QB's are there to make the offense work, not the other way around. maybe if you weren't so blinded by your pathological hatred of rex ryan you'd realize sanchez sucks
    Exactly. Look at the Colts last year vs. this year?

    The NFL is ALL about the QB and the league continues to push it further in that direction.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Whose opinion should I trust more, actual NFL quarterbacks with combined decades of experience playing the position, or some message board posters?

    Sanchez has a lot of talent and the Jets failed to develop him as a QB.
    LOL, why is Kellen Clemens not in the hall of fame? Who should you trust a bunch of fans that have watched every snap of every game and have followed the team dynamic very closely for the last 4-5 years or some nfl qb's who get second hand news and stick in some tape and watch an hour or two?

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    He has no playmakers.

    Edwards? Nope.

    Holmes? Nope.

    Keller? Nope.

    Burress? Nope.

    Tomlinson? Nope.

    Richardson? Nope.

    Washington? Nope.

    Jones? Nope.

    Mark Sanchez' problems started when these guys got hurt or were let go and were replaced by scrubs.

    SAR I
    Sanchez was just about as crappy with all those weapons as without. And you make the point of people on here who call him a jag by making posts like this. He can't do anything at all without a stacked deck. Meanwhile QBs with just as bad weapons, injuries and WORSE olines thrive.

    It is inexplicable that anyone still makes excuse for sanchez if they actually watch the games.

    On the plays we get good blocking, the receiver makes a play to get open, everything goes right, he still fugs it up.

    On plays where things are not goign well instead of throwing the ball into the stands or protecting the ball and taking a sack he turns it over.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Mark Sanchez hasn't had a dependable dump-off RB to bail him out since mid-2011 when Tomlinson got hurt. Every other QB in the NFL has one.

    Mark Sanchez hasn't had a consistent set of WR's with which to bond and get in rhythm, EVER. Every other QB in the NFL has one or two.

    Mark Sanchez hasn't had a capable offensive coordinator.

    Mark Sanchez hasn't had a capable head coach.

    Mark Sanchez is the victim of an insane head coach who is hell-bent on proving to the NFL that his father's style of defense can still work in today's modern NFL and he is dead wrong. As a result, we have not built up the offense at all, invested everything on an average defense, and we are dead in the water.

    SAR I
    After a certain point one begins to realize that some fans have a lot invested in a player (be it authentic jerseys with the player's name and number, bulk purchases of his rookie football cards, blow up dolls, whatever) and then it becomes easier to understand their undying loyalty to said player.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Sanchez was just about as crappy with all those weapons as without. And you make the point of people on here who call him a jag by making posts like this. He can't do anything at all without a stacked deck. Meanwhile QBs with just as bad weapons, injuries and WORSE olines thrive.

    It is inexplicable that anyone still makes excuse for sanchez if they actually watch the games.

    On the plays we get good blocking, the receiver makes a play to get open, everything goes right, he still fugs it up.

    On plays where things are not goign well instead of throwing the ball into the stands or protecting the ball and taking a sack he turns it over.
    exactly. sanchez would be fine if he was making a minimal salary and we could use that cap space to fill out a complete offense

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    LOL, why is Kellen Clemens not in the hall of fame? Who should you trust a bunch of fans that have watched every snap of every game and have followed the team dynamic very closely for the last 4-5 years or some nfl qb's who get second hand news and stick in some tape and watch an hour or two?
    The latter

    I agreed with them before I read the article. The Jets have done a poor job of developing Sanchez and the next QB will fail here too. Shonn Greene, Bilal Powell, Santonio Holmes, Chaz Schillens, Dustin Keller, and Matt Cavanaugh....good luck with that.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Sanchez was just about as crappy with all those weapons as without. And you make the point of people on here who call him a jag by making posts like this. He can't do anything at all without a stacked deck. Meanwhile QBs with just as bad weapons, injuries and WORSE olines thrive.

    It is inexplicable that anyone still makes excuse for sanchez if they actually watch the games.

    On the plays we get good blocking, the receiver makes a play to get open, everything goes right, he still fugs it up.

    On plays where things are not goign well instead of throwing the ball into the stands or protecting the ball and taking a sack he turns it over.
    Well said, I dont care whose opinion it is if you have eyes, you know mark sanchez is not a good QB.

    Good QBs make plays that win games for their team, our QB loses games.

    The problem with the sanchez support argument in this particular thread is that he DOES have talent. He is a good athlete, good arm strength, fine height/weight. The problem is that he isnt an NFL QB above the shoulders. He doesnt keep his eyes dowfield, he cant find a second or third read, he stares down WRs, and has awful pocket presence as evidenced by his atrocious amount of fumbles and how long he holds the ball. He also has no in-game feel or he wouldnt have 4 red zone picks. It doesnt matter who your WRs are, if they arent open, knowing to throw it away is all on HIM

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Well said, I dont care whose opinion it is if you have eyes, you know mark sanchez is not a good QB.
    Honest question, did you read the article? No one thinks Sanchez is a good QB. None of the QB's quoted in the article, none of the posters here and no one in the fan base. No one thinks that.

    The question is why - could the Jets have done things differently to put him in a position to succeed and develop his talent? I thought the following quote was interesting:

    "Everything the Colts do is about making Andrew Luck a better player and building around him. Never have the Jets said, 'We're going to do all this for Mark Sanchez.' For the Giants it's always been about Eli, from the day they drafted him."

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Honest question, did you read the article? No one thinks Sanchez is a good QB. None of the QB's quoted in the article, none of the posters here and no one in the fan base. No one thinks that.

    The question is why - could the Jets have done things differently to put him in a position to succeed and develop his talent? I thought the following quote was interesting:

    "Everything the Colts do is about making Andrew Luck a better player and building around him. Never have the Jets said, 'We're going to do all this for Mark Sanchez.' For the Giants it's always been about Eli, from the day they drafted him."
    I did read the article and I dont believe the quote about Eli was said with any actual knowledge. The giants selected 2 offensive players with their last 8 1st round picks. Have they made any big free agent signings on offense?

    What have the colts done for luck? They drafted 2 TEs which helps him. After that the went ahead and traded their second round pick for a CB, which happens to be exactly what we did.

    We traded for braylon and santonio. We signed LT to be a pass catching RB. Our offensive line has 3 players that have been in a probowl. Yet our QB has 67 career tds and 64 career INTs.

    I am the first one to admit both our last OCs have sucked and frankly I blame rex for a lot and dont think he deserves to be back here, but none of that erases the fact that sanchez, for all his "apparent talent" is simply not a good player.

    Let me ask this. Is Darrel Bevell and amazing coordinator? Because last year his qb threw 14 total TDs and the team sucked. Now he has Wilson, who has 20 TD passes with 3 weeks to go and the team is winning. Did they "develop" him better or can we actually start placing blame on the players themselves.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I did read the article and I dont believe the quote about Eli was said with any actual knowledge. The giants selected 2 offensive players with their last 8 1st round picks. Have they made any big free agent signings on offense?

    What have the colts done for luck? They drafted 2 TEs which helps him. After that the went ahead and traded their second round pick for a CB, which happens to be exactly what we did.

    We traded for braylon and santonio. We signed LT to be a pass catching RB. Our offensive line has 3 players that have been in a probowl. Yet our QB has 67 career tds and 64 career INTs.

    I am the first one to admit both our last OCs have sucked and frankly I blame rex for a lot and dont think he deserves to be back here, but none of that erases the fact that sanchez, for all his "apparent talent" is simply not a good player.

    Let me ask this. Is Darrel Bevell and amazing coordinator? Because last year his qb threw 14 total TDs and the team sucked. Now he has Wilson, who has 20 TD passes with 3 weeks to go and the team is winning. Did they "develop" him better or can we actually start placing blame on the players themselves.
    This is a great post. Thank you.

    The idea that the Jets have simply neglected the offense is just false. There are no facts to support this other than a lot of posters on this board saying it...

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