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Thread: Newsday: Assessing Mark Sanchez: Experts don't pull any punches

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenReaper View Post
    I posted this in another thread last week...

    http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/sh...=251790&page=5

    "Sanchez has been coached into a QBot...so he's not a QB anymore. All of his good football instincts and mobility, that he showed in college, has been coached out of him. He's a trauma case that may never recover. IMO...it's best for him to move on and try to revive his career elsewhere.

    I remember Sanchez in his first game in Houston against the Texans. He moved out of the pocket and ran towards the near sideline to avoid pressure, saw a Jets receiver, all the way over on the opposite sideline...running down the field and waving at Sanchez for the ball. Sanchez quickly flicked his wrist on the run, and delivered an accurate pass to the receiver. It was about 35 yards across the field, and about 10-15 yards forward, for a 1st down.

    It wasn't an RGIII play. Or a Cam Newton one. Nor a Russell Wilson one. It was a Sanchez play. It was what made him effective in college...throwing well on the run. Those other three were allowed to use their instincts and improvise what they did well in college, and incorporate it against NFL defenses.

    IMO...it was important for Sanchez to be encouraged to use his mobility to throw well on the run, at the very beginning of his Jets career. Cause he was competing against NFL defenses on the experience of only 16 college starts. But Schotty and his playbook...with Cavanaugh and Rex not objecting...decided that Sanchez had to be groomed into a pocket passing robot. Having to do this with all that motion nonsense that Favre wouldn't put up with. It succeeded beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

    Mark Sanchez...QBot NYJ."


    In the last year of Mike Singletary as HC of the 49ers, Alex Smith was a complete mess at QB. His spirit seemed broken and his confidence shattered. Pretty much what Sanchez is today. If Smith had one more year with Singletary...and him bringing in another new OC and playbook...I think Smith might have sucked on a gun and blown his brains out.

    Instead he got Jim Harbaugh as an HC. And he's played well ever since. Even though he's not currently starting for the 49ers. Smith is now thought of as a viable candidate by fans and FO's...to be a starting QB for their team. Very few are saying that about Sanchez. And under this present Tanny-Rex regime...Sanchez will continue to fail next year too.

    Once that happens...I hope Woody blows the whole thing up. I don't believe Tanny should get another HC to work with. Or draft another young QB and overseer his development. Sorry to say...Rex isn't equipped to do that job either.

    IMO...the baton should then be passed over to someone with a very strong football background. Player...scout...coach...HC...GM...at least some combinations of these should be on that individual's resume. Added to this, he should have a reputation for talent evaluation and development. And also possess a clear vision for this NYJ football team. And a blueprint for achieving it.

    Anything short of a real football man calling the shots...will result in a continuation of a Circle Jerk Jets operation, that we're all too familiar with. Round and round the NYJ will go...taking maybe a decade or two...before getting a sniff at another AFCCG...as this current one has done...twice.

    Right now patience is needed. Woody needs to have a carefully thought out plan in place before taking any action. For now...he should let the Tanny-Rex-Sanchez dynamic play itself out in 2013.

    After that...blow this up and implement the new plan. Headed by an individual that has spent 20 or more years on his life in various football capacities.

    A football man.
    THANK YOU!!!!

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    There is more to coaching a young QB than just telling him he can not make mistakes. As with Singletary and Smith, Rex tried minimize the importance of the QB position. The color coding wristband, the incessant browbeating of "just dont turn it over" took any confidence and decisiveness that Sanchez may have had and turned him into a paranoid, scared, confident-less QB.
    UMMMmmmmm YOU ARE 100% CORRECT!!!!!!!

    Do you remember Rex's other brilliant idea of blowing horns at Sanchez so he would get rid of the ball in less than 1.5 seconds rather than the Jets addressing at the time their horrific OL play!!!!

    That "plan" was designed to help a QB with accuracy PROBLEMS!!!!!

    Good Grief!!!!!!

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlairThomasFumble View Post
    <Kurt Warner: "I can't think back to those signature games for Mark Sanchez where you go: 'Man, I remember that game when they couldn't do anything and we put the ball in Mark Sanchez's hands and he took over the game and won for us.'>

    I don't think this is fully accurate. In 2010 his throw to Holmes in corner of EZ in NE playoffs was big time throw. Also made big throws to Holmes in Detroit game, to Braylon in Houston game and in Indy playoff game in 2009.

    EDIT: On reflection Warner's statement about not taking over the game is right. You never see Sanchez do that.

    No, I'm not saying MS's Aaron Rodgers. Just that Warner's memory's a bit limited.
    Warner hit the nail on the head. Even in some of Marks "signature" games you look and see some bad play by him. Like before the Holmes TD run he started a 2 min drill and threw a bad INT. The D got it back like magic. If that is his signature then that is sad. It saddens me that we can get 14 or even 10 points down and no one thinks we can come back from it. It saddens me even more that our own fan base looks at scrub Os like SF and say why can't we do that. Even an average O can stage a comeback once and a while. Mark has never shown that ability to me. He has no heart.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    There is more to coaching a young QB than just telling him he can not make mistakes. As with Singletary and Smith, Rex tried minimize the importance of the QB position. The color coding wristband, the incessant browbeating of "just dont turn it over" took any confidence and decisiveness that Sanchez may have had and turned him into a paranoid, scared, confident-less QB.
    There is a truism in coaching and teaching that you should tell a student what to do, not what not to do. The common phrase is 'don't think of a purple elephant'. What did you just picture - a purple elephant?

    http://www.trialtheater.com/wordpres...rple-elephant/

    There’s something strange about how our brains work. For some reason, our brains don’t seem to comprehend the word “Don’t” very well. In fact, our brains have the power to completely ignore that single word while still hearing every other word in the statement. It happens on a subconscious level. When we hear the word “Don’t,” we ignore that word and follow the rest of the command. If you’ve ever coached sports, you probably noticed the difference between telling an athlete, “Don’t miss this shot” vs. “You’re going to make this shot.” When you tell players, “Don’t miss this shot,” they’re more likely to miss. For some reason, “Don’t” gets lost in the shuffle, leaving only the command: “MISS THIS SHOT!”
    The reason that happens is because our minds latch onto the strongest image available. You use words to create verbal images. The verbal images you create determine whether jurors focus on what you’re asking for, or if they focus on the complete opposite of what you’re asking them to do. :
    This is coaching 101, and the Jets staff doesn't even know that, and Sanchez's decline is the clearest evidence.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    UMMMmmmmm YOU ARE 100% CORRECT!!!!!!!

    Do you remember Rex's other brilliant idea of blowing horns at Sanchez so he would get rid of the ball in less than 1.5 seconds rather than the Jets addressing at the time their horrific OL play!!!!

    That "plan" was designed to help a QB with accuracy PROBLEMS!!!!!

    Good Grief!!!!!!
    Do you think there is a possibility that Rex and Tanny watched mark play and said to themselves,

    OH GOD....we drafted a kid with no procket presences or game feel, what can we do?

    And went ahead and made the color coded system because he simply didnt "get it" as far as what to do differently at specific points of the game or areas of the field? That they needed the horn, because they drafted someone who cant process the field and keep an internal clock of when to get rid of the ball?

    He hasnt worn the wristband in 3 seasons, yet somehow has 4 red zone picks this year. Guess those were the fault of the oline.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    In 8 drafts since getting Eli the giants have selected TWO offensive players in the first round.

    Pretty clear the above statement is someones opinion based on zero facts.

    The first round is not an indication of how a team drafts. The Giants don't throw away picks like our GM. They use all 7 or more every year and make great picks after RD # 1.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny Testaverde's Niece View Post
    There is a truism in coaching and teaching that you should tell a student what to do, not what not to do. The common phrase is 'don't think of a purple elephant'. What did you just picture - a purple elephant?

    http://www.trialtheater.com/wordpres...rple-elephant/



    This is coaching 101, and the Jets staff doesn't even know that, and Sanchez's decline is the clearest evidence.
    So telling him "DONT throw red zone interceptions" is what makes him do it?

    Your analogy, while true to an extent, is not applicable here. There is no "tell him what to do" he should simply know it by now.

    Even taking out the rogers/bradys of the world, do you really think the atlanta staff told matt ryan, "hey, if we are winning, be more conservative with the ball. If we are losing by a lot be more aggressive?"

    How about this "Hey matt, if we are in FG range, be extra careful with the football because we can score points here."

    Im pretty sure good QBs simply know that, they really shouldnt need to be "coached" to understand field position or the score of the game.

    The sancehz supporters should ask themselves, when the last time you saw him intentionally throw the ball away, because its never happens. Is that another thing that we "didnt teach him enough"?

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Do you think there is a possibility that Rex and Tanny watched mark play and said to themselves,

    OH GOD....we drafted a kid with no procket presences or game feel, what can we do?

    And went ahead and made the color coded system because he simply didnt "get it" as far as what to do differently at specific points of the game or areas of the field? That they needed the horn, because they drafted someone who cant process the field and keep an internal clock of when to get rid of the ball?

    He hasnt worn the wristband in 3 seasons, yet somehow has 4 red zone picks this year. Guess those were the fault of the oline.
    I am not going to argue with you....

    No team in the NFL has used the system the Jets implemented to train a QB in the NFL in over 40 years but you keep believing the Jets FO and coaching staff know what they are doing on the offensive side of the ball.

    From burying balls, to horns on the field such antics would not be accepted in today's top flight high school level play .... It is a joke!!!

    And guess what if you are coached by MORONS you can develop poor habits, if you dont know this I dont know what to tell you!!!
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 12-17-2012 at 02:52 PM.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    So telling him "DONT throw red zone interceptions" is what makes him do it?

    Your analogy, while true to an extent, is not applicable here. There is no "tell him what to do" he should simply know it by now.

    Even taking out the rogers/bradys of the world, do you really think the atlanta staff told matt ryan, "hey, if we are winning, be more conservative with the ball. If we are losing by a lot be more aggressive?"

    How about this "Hey matt, if we are in FG range, be extra careful with the football because we can score points here."

    Im pretty sure good QBs simply know that, they really shouldnt need to be "coached" to understand field position or the score of the game.

    The sancehz supporters should ask themselves, when the last time you saw him intentionally throw the ball away, because its never happens. Is that another thing that we "didnt teach him enough"?
    Dial it back a couple years. The discussion is about Sanchez's 'development' by the 'coaches' (or lack thereof) when he was a rookie, not today. Today it's water under the bridge - a ruined, shot QB. The good QB's "simply know that" because they were properly developed and brought along by knowledgeable coaching staff (not Schitthead and Cavanaugh and possibly Brunell) and it is in their muscle memory; they don't think about it anymore. Yes, 'don't throw an interception', 'don't make a mistake', 'don't fumble', are all the wrong way to go about coaching your young QB. "Be extra careful" - that is a positive, it gives the player something to mentally focus on and do, not something to think about not doing and wind up doing just that.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    I am not going to argue with you....

    No team in the NFL has used the system the Jets implemented to train a QB in the NFL in over 40 years but you keep believing the Jets FO and coaching staff know what they are doing on the offensive side of the ball.

    From burying balls, to horns on the field such antics would be accepted in today's top flight high school level play .... It is a joke!!!

    And guess what if you are coached by MORONS you can develop poor habits, if you dont know this I dont know what to tell you!!!
    I actually think the FO has done a very bad job here, has no plan, and that cavanaugh and sparano are probably the worst offensive coaching pairing in the leage.

    That being said, when a QB has 7 fumbles, 4 Red Zone picks, and still stares down his receivers without moving to a second read, I blame the QB, not the coaches.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny Testaverde's Niece View Post
    Dial it back a couple years. The discussion is about Sanchez's 'development' by the 'coaches' (or lack thereof) when he was a rookie, not today. Today it's water under the bridge - a ruined, shot QB. The good QB's "simply know that" because they were properly developed and brought along by knowledgeable coaching staff (not Schitthead and Cavanaugh and possibly Brunell) and it is in their muscle memory; they don't think about it anymore. Yes, 'don't throw an interception', 'don't make a mistake', 'don't fumble', are all the wrong way to go about coaching your young QB. "Be extra careful" - that is a positive, it gives the player something to mentally focus on and do, not something to think about not doing and wind up doing just that.
    Ummmm This!!!!!

    THANK YOU!!!!!

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I actually think the FO has done a very bad job here, has no plan, and that cavanaugh and sparano are probably the worst offensive coaching pairing in the leage.

    That being said, when a QB has 7 fumbles, 4 Red Zone picks, and still stares down his receivers without moving to a second read, I blame the QB, not the coaches.
    Mark has not helped his cause this year, no doubt, but how do you explain the success he had in the redzone last year? The Jets were one of the best teams in the redzone last year and surprisingly enough Sanchez was one of the best QBs in the redzone. The Jets brought in Tom Moore as a consultant last season to work specifically on the Redzone offense. Think there is any coincidence between the redzone success and Tom Moore's coaching?

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I actually think the FO has done a very bad job here, has no plan, and that cavanaugh and sparano are probably the worst offensive coaching pairing in the leage.

    That being said, when a QB has 7 fumbles, 4 Red Zone picks, and still stares down his receivers without moving to a second read, I blame the QB, not the coaches.
    It's pretty clear that there is no level of depth that Sanchez can sink into that will deter some of his staunchest supporters. He could throw an INT on every pass from here on out and his apologists will blame his supporting cast.

    The QB coaching staff is pretty clearly terrible. The head coach has no clue about how to run an offense. The problem is, guys like SAR are asking for an entirely new offensive staff and "playmakers." Who is that coaching staff and where are those playmakers coming from given the Jets cap space and likely drafting slot? SAR will simply say, "That's not my problem, that's Woody's problem" while ignoring the realities of the NFL market. It's a Yankee fan mentality - we have a problem? throw money at it and sign the best player who can fix it. That doesn't work in the NFL, and he's struggling with this reality. The Jets are the one thing SAR can't throw money at to fix, and it's killing him.

    It's unlikely they will meet SAR's criteria, so I guess they just extend Sanchez again until they have "enough" "playmakers" around him to see what he's "really" worth? The Jets aren't going to completely overturn their coaching staff just to see if Sanchez can perform. That is a pipe dream. And quite frankly, it's dumb.
    Last edited by ASG0531; 12-17-2012 at 03:18 PM.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYJ37/12 View Post
    Sanchez was doomed from the day he was drafted. Young qb with minimal experience coming out, he needed a good coaching staff around him.
    With Cavanaugh in place and Schotty, Mark was in trouble.
    Cavanaugh is still in the building.

    The Jets have failed miserably with this kid.
    AND to be thrown to the wolves of NY.

    I don't think he's got the very thick skin it takes to be a QB in NY. He might have made it in smaller venues like Carolina, Arizona, that trash heap further up the east coast from NY....

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by fidelioion View Post
    Or Sanchez just isn't very good.

    So now here's the new thing...I love it. Alex Smith is awesome with a new HC, the same HC that benched him (with team dominating the league) for a Rookie.

    Let's stop with this, really. The whole idea is absurd. Sanchez is not a quality NFL QB and it's not because Rex ruined him.
    Pretty much this. The idea that Rex ruined Sanchez is insane. The Sanchez homers can't even defend his awful play so they have to switch tracks and claim that the reason why he sucks is because he 'wasn't coached properly'

    Is the reason why Shonn Greene isn't as good as Adrian Petersen because Minnesota has better coaches?

    Is the reason Gholston was a bust because he wasn't 'coached up' enough by Rex and the Jets coaches?

    Sanchez is awful and would have been awful regardless of who drafted him

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Mark has not helped his cause this year, no doubt, but how do you explain the success he had in the redzone last year? The Jets were one of the best teams in the redzone last year and surprisingly enough Sanchez was one of the best QBs in the redzone. The Jets brought in Tom Moore as a consultant last season to work specifically on the Redzone offense. Think there is any coincidence between the redzone success and Tom Moore's coaching?
    That point is actually very hard to explain, and I simply dont know.

    I think that Plax really helped skew marks redzone numbers as he had most of his TDs on shorter throws. Im also sure keller and moore helped too, but to go from what he did last year, to this complete abomination has to be on the player as well.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by w0mbat View Post
    Pretty much this. The idea that Rex ruined Sanchez is insane. The Sanchez homers can't even defend his awful play so they have to switch tracks and claim that the reason why he sucks is because he 'wasn't coached properly'

    Is the reason why Shonn Greene isn't as good as Adrian Petersen because Minnesota has better coaches?

    Is the reason Gholston was a bust because he wasn't 'coached up' enough by Rex and the Jets coaches?

    Sanchez is awful and would have been awful regardless of who drafted him
    How could Rex ruin Sanchez when his entire coaching of him consisted of, "ok, Sanchize, go out there!"?

  18. #138
    Great Read!

    Great Article.

    Summed it up perfectly:

    Mediocre prospect drafted too high poorly developed by defensive coach's regime.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    And why can't Sanchez take ownership of his stance and change it? If he actually reads what the fans think and media think (and I'm sure there are many out there that know what they are talking about), couldn't he make an effort to change it?

    The only reason Matt Cavanaugh is still with the team is because there were no decent replacements out there. Rex Ryan wanted to replace him last offseason.

    So Sanchez shouldn't be crying about spilled milk here. He KNEW he would be getting a bum QB coach back. He KNEW he was going into his 4th season as a pro.

    So shouldn't he take ownership of the situation and attempt to change it on his own? If he can run Jets West in an attempt to build chemistry with receivers, why can't he watch film of himself?
    Not sure you are understanding any of what I wrote. It isn't meant as an excuse, it's an observation. Feel free to make your own and refute what I said. Or not. Either way is fine by me.

    As for his taking ownership of it; if you do something regularly a certain way, wouldn't you think it would take someone of importance or a whole lot of people to point out to you that what you were doing could be done better before you actually listened to them? Most people would, that's why there's coaches.

    Hard to take ownership of something when you don't know the problem. The first post I made on the subject pointed out that the other experts missed this tidbit. It's a spot-on assessment, one that may be missed by Sanchez and the coaching staff, not just the likes of Trent Dilfer. I know, what the hell does a poster on JI know, right?

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