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Thread: Change of Philosophy

  1. #1

    Change of Philosophy

    In light of the recent shootings in our country by young people in their 20's I am hoping there will be a strong stance on changing the educational philosophy in this country of how young people are taught.

    Currently there are little to no programs to help disturbed students, or just students going through common issues in schools. The entire focus, nation wide is on the testing of young people as early as kindergarten and including all special ed students including those with severe aspergers. The pressure of testing is out of control and i believe is having a detrimental affect on many of our countries youth and the educators who are forced to teach these mandates.

    The educational philosophy currently has an obnoxious amount of focus on testing. This focus on over the top standardized testing has been going on in this country for over ten years. What the general public does not fully understand is how much of it is being done and what other areas are being neglected.

    Testing materials are constant throughout the school year. Every week to two weeks new testing material are forced on teachers to give to students. These tests are in addition to the teacher generated tests on subject matter taught. Standardized test materials are manufactured by outside companies and are making a lot of money for politicians and their friends in the business. There are test prep materials, practice tests, standardized tests, post tests, and outside businesses connected to test makers for parents to spend money on in order to pass what many believe are un-passable assessments. To make room for this, many programs of cultural enrichment have been shortened and all together eliminated. Phys Ed, Social Studies, class trips, guidance, conflict resolution programs, music, art, and after school programs including sports teams have declined tremendously over the past ten years to make room for testing.

    Mayor Bloomberg and other politicians fight for more testing of our kids. It covers so many things for them. Most importantly, it is used to judge teachers and the possibility of shutting down schools. In NYC, Mayor Bloomberg has set up multiple guidelines in his hopes of shutting down schools to get rid of all veteran educators so he can place his political cronies in positions to manipulate the children.

    There is so much pressure in all schools to raise these biased tests that what is totally ignored are social issues that are disturbing behavior from the kids. I personally see it first hand over many years in my school. There is a ridiculous amount of pressure that is placed on administrators in fear of having the school shut down entirely.

    There are mental diseases that are relatively new to the general public like Aspergers where no one has a defined answer how to treat yet these students and all students are forced to take these standardized test. It is painful to watch children so stressed over tests that many believe are unjust.

    Because there is so much at stake with testing what is totally ignored is the disturbing behavior of some kids. There is very little consequence for disruptive behavior in city schools. The students know this and many take liberties with it. Teachers are often cursed out and physically abused with little to no consequence to the students. If a student strikes a teacher physically, that student is allowed to sit in that very same classroom the next day and beyond until it is resoled in a "special court." Imagine the message this sends to the rest of the population?

    Leaving you with this gem. I currently have a female student who is totally out of control. She is 11 years old and in the 6th grade. Curses at teachers, physically abusive to other students, bully, destroys any attempt that the teacher tries with a lesson. The other 30 students in the class have a lost school year because they are placed in her class. Three weeks ago another teacher intercepted a hand written letter from her. The title was "Ways To KILL WOMEN In Their Sleep." Graphic details of slitting throats, lighting women on fire, stabbing women in the chest and cutting off their "tits" as a trophy, bleeding to death, well you get the picture. Copies of the letter were made and handed to the dean, principal, assistant principal, etc. It is obvious that this student needs serious help. Her behavior is out of control most of the time. Her mother is in total denial and is not cooperative. Needless to say, nothing has been done. This child continues to destroy every lesson and cause a physical threat to others. The message to the teachers from the mayor and administrators are that "the teacher must not have good classroom management, blame it on them." If the mayor admits there is a problem then money has to be spent to help it, money taken away from testing.

    When will the general public recognize that current political educational policies in this country are poisoning our youth and in many cases are stressing out young people to no end?

    Is it just a coincidence that the last mass shooting in a movie theater, mall, and now school are done by young people just exiting our school system?

    Teach the next group of adults that education is more that just tests, teach them that there is more to education than just money, that there are ways to for fill life that includes giving back and helping others. That life is not just the bottom line .

    The public needs to take back control of public schools
    Last edited by copernicus; 12-16-2012 at 10:14 AM.

  2. #2
    yeah man, it comes down to philosophy and not access to guns.

    There are idiots/madmen/women in every society, but in the USA, those stupidos have access to firearms because its their "constitutional right".

    Compare the rates of death by firearm by country to country, and the USA is WAY out in front for first world nations.

    USA! USA! USA!

  3. #3
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    We can ban guns but that is not a panacea. There are 3 million guns in this country that are not going to vanish and they do not have a shelf life, they last for hundreds of years. There is a huge black market for guns in this country. NY has the most strict gun laws in the nation and as a result has the largest black market for guns.

    Banning guns or the access to guns is only a small part of the problem. I really hope people do not think that once we ban guns that these problems are going to go away. This is a culture problem, a lifestyle problem more so than anything else.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soberphobia View Post
    yeah man, it comes down to philosophy and not access to guns.

    There are idiots/madmen/women in every society, but in the USA, those stupidos have access to firearms because its their "constitutional right".

    Compare the rates of death by firearm by country to country, and the USA is WAY out in front for first world nations.

    USA! USA! USA!
    Switzerland, Israel,

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    We can ban guns but that is not a panacea. There are 3 million guns in this country that are not going to vanish and they do not have a shelf life, they last for hundreds of years. There is a huge black market for guns in this country. NY has the most strict gun laws in the nation and as a result has the largest black market for guns.

    Banning guns or the access to guns is only a small part of the problem. I really hope people do not think that once we ban guns that these problems are going to go away. This is a culture problem, a lifestyle problem more so than anything else.
    Not 3 million, there are hundreds of millions in the US. If there were a gun ban in effect today it would do squat as a gun made in 1975 is just as lethal as one made last week if it's in the hands of a whack job.

    This killer got the guns from his mother who was by all reports a duly licensed, sane and law abiding person. Enacting yet another law for the criminals and insane to ignore is an exercise in futility.

    I agree that more power and resources should be devoted to identfying and confining whackjobs whether their parents consent to it or not. Even then that wouldn't have helped in this case as the POS was never violent before.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    Switzerland, Israel,
    lol, Israel?

    Good luck with defending your awful gun laws. Sooner rather than later the majority of Americans are going to demand they be changed, and for good reason.

    And good luck defending a "constitutional right" when the majority of Americans want it wiped completely from their lives, as will happen in the wake of atrocity after atocity every 4th month or so over there. Democracy will win in the end, not sectional idiocy defended by people like you.

  7. #7
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    Fellas, I think there's already a gun-policy-thread going.

    I think what cop said has some value. When public education was in the hands of local authority, local school boards, parents we're the decision-makers of their children's educations. When our system of public schools was built on that, we led the world in education. When we took control away from the local level and standardized education federally (although not authorized by the Const.) we have seen a steady decline in performance. What good is it if some kids can regurgitate force-fed information if they have no clue how to process any of it?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soberphobia View Post
    lol, Israel?

    Good luck with defending your awful gun laws. Sooner rather than later the majority of Americans are going to demand they be changed, and for good reason.

    And good luck defending a "constitutional right" when the majority of Americans want it wiped completely from their lives, as will happen in the wake of atrocity after atocity every 4th month or so over there. Democracy will win in the end, not sectional idiocy defended by people like you.
    This guy really has his finger on the pulse of America

    Guns aren't going anywhere.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by freestater View Post
    Fellas, I think there's already a gun-policy-thread going.

    I think what cop said has some value. When public education was in the hands of local authority, local school boards, parents we're the decision-makers of their children's educations. When our system of public schools was built on that, we led the world in education. When we took control away from the local level and standardized education federally (although not authorized by the Const.) we have seen a steady decline in performance. What good is it if some kids can regurgitate force-fed information if they have no clue how to process any of it?
    Right on the money FS!........

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    This guy really has his finger on the pulse of America

    Guns aren't going anywhere.
    Nah guess they aren't, what a sad situation that you have a "finger on the pulse of America" and an anti-gun advocate does not. While people like you are there, defending the right of lunatics to own these types of weapons, these massacres will occur and recur, and yes I do blame people like you for defending this abysmal "2nd Amendment" situation you have over there now.

    Braindead does not describe it.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    This guy really has his finger on the pulse of America

    Guns aren't going anywhere.
    With gun ownership such a strong topic for debate then the least we can do is teach the youth more strategies of conflict resolution and good citizenship.

    Again, these programs have been eliminated over the past ten years because of the focus on standardized testing. In many cases severe behavior problems in schools have been ignored totally.

    In many to all cases, twenty year old kids went their entire school careers with no peer intervention, conflict resolution, and guidance programs.

    Think the kids that keep shooting up public places might have benefited from these programs?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Soberphobia View Post
    yeah man, it comes down to philosophy and not access to guns.

    There are idiots/madmen/women in every society, but in the USA, those stupidos have access to firearms because its their "constitutional right".

    Compare the rates of death by firearm by country to country, and the USA is WAY out in front for first world nations.

    USA! USA! USA!
    The Newtown massacre would never have happened if the murderous Lanza had not had access to his mothers assault rifle or her two pistols. Today, all those little kids are eating breakfast and looking at their holiday decorations with their families.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soberphobia View Post
    Nah guess they aren't, what a sad situation that you have a "finger on the pulse of America" and an anti-gun advocate does not. While people like you are there, defending the right of lunatics to own these types of weapons, these massacres will occur and recur, and yes I do blame people like you for defending this abysmal "2nd Amendment" situation you have over there now.

    Braindead does not describe it.
    Your entire argument is based on straw men and ignorance.

    And thankfully, we don't really give a damn what anyone on the outside thinks of our " Amendment situation " or anything else for that matter.

    Mind your own house and GFY. Braindead is a PERFECT way to describe this.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    With gun ownership such a strong topic for debate then the least we can do is teach the youth more strategies of conflict resolution and good citizenship.

    Again, these programs have been eliminated over the past ten years because of the focus on standardized testing. In many cases severe behavior problems in schools have been ignored totally.

    In many to all cases, twenty year old kids went their entire school careers with no peer intervention, conflict resolution, and guidance programs.

    Think the kids that keep shooting up public places might have benefited from these programs?


    http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/arc...-lanzas-mother

    This is not a gun control issue, as much as people want to simply say that it is. Read this article that I just read, and it shows that the behavior that is behind these acts of evil is not being treated very effectively.

    Here is the article since the link is unavailable right now.

    I Am Adam Lanza's Mother

    Three days before 20-year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

    “I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

    “They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”

    “They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid *****. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”

    “You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid *****. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”

    I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

    A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7- and 9-year-old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

    That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn't have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

    We still don’t know what's wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

    At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he's in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He's in a good mood most of the time. But when he's not, watch out. And it’s impossible to predict what will set him off.

    Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district’s most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can’t function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30 a.m.-1:50 p.m. Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

    The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, "Look, Mom, I'm really sorry. Can I have video games back today?"

    "No way," I told him. "You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly."

    His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. "Then I'm going to kill myself," he said. "I'm going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself."

    That was it. After the knife incident, I had told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.

    "Where are you taking me?" he said, suddenly worried. "Where are we going?"

    "You know where we are going," I replied.

    "No! You can’t do that to me! You’re sending me to hell! You’re sending me straight to hell!"

    I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. "Call the police," I said. "Hurry."

    Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn’t escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I’m still stronger than he is, but I won’t be for much longer.

    The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—"Were there any difficulties with... at what age did your child... were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have..."

    At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You'll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

    For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, "I hate you. And I'm going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here."

    By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I've heard those promises for years. I don't believe them anymore.

    On the intake form, under the question, "What are your expectations for treatment?" I wrote, “I need help.”

    And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

    I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza's mother. I am Dylan Klebold's and Eric Harris's mother. I am Jason Holmes's mother. I am Jared Loughner's mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho's mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

    According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

    When I asked my son's social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. “If he’s back in the system, they’ll create a paper trail," he said. "That's the only way you’re ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you’ve got charges."

    I don't believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael's sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn’t deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.

    With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation’s largest treatment centers in 2011.

    No one wants to send a 13-year-old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, “Something must be done.”

    I agree that something must be done. It's time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That's the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

    God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.
    Last edited by sec.101row23; 12-16-2012 at 11:41 AM.

  15. #15
    Mayor Bloomberg and other politicians fight for more testing of our kids. It covers so many things for them. Most importantly, it is used to judge teachers and the possibility of shutting down schools. In NYC, Mayor Bloomberg has set up multiple guidelines in his hopes of shutting down schools to get rid of all veteran educators so he can place his political cronies in positions to manipulate the children.

    There is so much pressure in all schools to raise these biased tests that what is totally ignored are social issues that are disturbing behavior from the kids. I personally see it first hand over many years in my school. There is a ridiculous amount of pressure that is placed on administrators in fear of having the school shut down entirely.

    There are mental diseases that are relatively new to the general public like Aspergers where no one has a defined answer how to treat yet these students and all students are forced to take these standardized test. It is painful to watch children so stressed over tests that many believe are unjust.
    When will the general public recognize that current political educational policies in this country are poisoning our youth and in many cases are stressing out young people to no end?

    Is it just a coincidence that the last mass shooting in a movie theater, mall, and now school are done by young people just exiting our school system?
    Are you seriousy using these the tragedy of these dead kids to push your "Don't Judge Us Teachers, No Testing" agenda you've been flogging here for months?

    You are loathsome. You are less than loathsome. You're as bad as those crazy Religious nuts who are going to "protest" the funerals.

    Using this horror to flog for the same old Union-backed political desires and self-serving employment wishes?

    GFY Copernicus. You are evil.
    Last edited by Warfish; 12-16-2012 at 12:07 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Are you seriousy using these the tragedy of these dead kids to push your "Don't Judge Us Teachers, No Testing" agenda you've been flogging here for months?

    You are loathsome. You are less than loathsome. You're as bad as those crazy Religious nuts who are going to "protest" the funerals.

    Using this horror to flog for the same old Union-backed political desires and self-serving employment wishes?

    GFY Copernicus. You are evil.
    You are ridiculous. No I am not. I am talking about refocusing our school structure to help kids. It is obvious that the current school philosophy is not working. We have kids who are less active, more into violence and violent video games, but they have been tested and re tested and test again all for profit to the politicians and their friends. All at the expense of the children.

    Open your eyes and listen to someone who is on the inside. All the taxes that you and the general public pay for education is all going to some sort of testing. No social growth programs, less sports teams, less funding for kids who NEED special education. Less programs to help kids deal with their anger.

    Like I have explained over and over, kids who need intervention and special education are being mainstreamed when they cant handle it. It all factors in. Its over ten years of this nonsense. Ask ANY educator if they believe that this over excessive testing is doing any good. I would almost say that you'd get 100% of them to tell you how stressed out the entire system is. Stressing out young people unnecessarily is causing them to be less productive as adults.

    You think this is about job security? You have no heart. There is a serious situation in how we are raising kids in our schools allowing politicians to line their pockets on the backs of kids and our tax money

    Open your eyes before its too late and another 20 year old kid shoots up a mall or school.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post

    You are loathsome. You are less than loathsome. You're as bad as those crazy Religious nuts who are going to "protest" the funerals.

    GFY Copernicus. You are evil.
    So much for civility.

  18. #18
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    LiberaL philosophy, ideology and messages in liberal controlled schools, media and entertainment, what could go wrong?
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 12-16-2012 at 01:36 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Are you seriousy using these the tragedy of these dead kids to push your "Don't Judge Us Teachers, No Testing" agenda you've been flogging here for months?

    You are loathsome. You are less than loathsome. You're as bad as those crazy Religious nuts who are going to "protest" the funerals.

    Using this horror to flog for the same old Union-backed political desires and self-serving employment wishes?

    GFY Copernicus. You are evil.
    I'm not disagreeing with you Fish, but I am asking you to tone it down with the personal stuff.

    Thx

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soberphobia View Post
    yeah man, it comes down to philosophy and not access to guns.

    There are idiots/madmen/women in every society, but in the USA, those stupidos have access to firearms because its their "constitutional right".

    Compare the rates of death by firearm by country to country, and the USA is WAY out in front for first world nations.

    USA! USA! USA!
    It really is a red herring. Yes, the gun issue needs to be addressed, but mental health care in this country is deplorable. It's easy for you to sit on an ivory tower, 20,000 miles away and deride the basic freedoms of this country with a very snarky "USA USA USA." To you I say, grow up. There are a lot of issues at work here, and the gun issue is 1 of a 100.

    To the OP, the biggest issue IMO is being able to get ahead of these problems in schools before they surface. My fiancée teaches 3rd grade and had a similar student -- classified ADHD and Intermittent Explosive Behavior, and getting him help means wading through miles of red tape. This is the biggest problem.

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