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Thread: Can someone please explain the decline of Sanchez?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by sdJETSetter View Post
    Good post.

    I dont know Sonny, it seems like pocket presence and vision.....and i hate to say it, accuracy are traits that are better off hardwired than programmed. Sure there are ways to improve those areas, but is it worth it considering the payoff is questionable at best.

    I was done bashing Mark 3 weeks ago, but the truth is the truth, he is not NFL starter material. More than that, after 20 something years, i want a QB that can win because of, not in spite of, dont you?
    I was not advocating for Sanchez. Just trying to put my take on why he is where he is now -- not fit to start for any NFL team.

    He clearly has no pocket presence now, but in his second year he seemed to have a knack for avoiding pressure and extending plays. He did it often in the many comeback wins that season. Then LT retired leaving the Jets without a RB capable of picking up a blitz and Wayne Hunter was handed a starting job he did not deserve. Sanchez has had his clock cleaned too many times to count the past two seasons. Hard to have pocket presence when half the pass plays turn into fire drills.

    I too, am tired of settling for an OK QB. I want the Jets to set their expectations high for the QB, and to always keep the door open until they find that guy.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by jxc View Post
    He was never good. The rest of the team(rushing, defense, special teams) was great. They did just come off a 9-7 season in 2008 after all.

    Sanchez threw 12 TDs 20 INTs and lost three fumbles his first year. Without the lucky breaks of the Bengals and the Colts resting their players the Jets would not have snuck into the playoffs. And Sanchez's awesome contribution through the 3 games of the playoffs? 4TDs 2INTs.

    2011 he played ok. In the playoffs he had a 3TD game to eliminate the Patriots. AFC Championship game against the Steelers? 0 points in the first half and a fumble 6 right before halftime. In the second half he battles back against Pittsburgh who has a 24-0 lead. He musters a courageous moral victory in the 19-24 loss, setting the tone for the future.

    You still think he comes up big in big games? Monday night was a big game. So were games 14, 15, and 16 of last year. Playoffs on the line and he comes up small. Real small. Two years in a row.
    I agree with this - to a degree - Sanchez was/has never been "elite-level" good ... but he was never this bad, either. He hasn't been coached up, this is true. He hasn't had an offensive coordinator develop a game plan to his strengths, this is true.
    But all this crap about how the Jets are responsible for his confidence level? That's b.s. Sanchez' confidence level is entirely up to Sanchez. Do your job. Period. If you're too friggin' soft and sensitive and scared because of the media or expectations or any of that other stuff, then get the hell out. Be a man and step up. Otherwise, take the short bus on out of town and good luck elsewhere.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    +1

    The Jets ruined this kid.

    SAR I

    I don't know if they ruined him but the Jets circus of an organization didn't help, nothing but a bunch of buffoon bunglers. Owned by a clueless poor little rich kid, the Jets wreak from being a joke from the top down.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Manchez View Post
    Extremely raw talent handed over to clueless idiots to "mold" him into an NFL QB...

    Offensive skill positions changed over every year with diminishing talent

    Dumb OC replaced with Dumber OC

    HC who doesn't know or care anything about offense

    Running game declines every year

    Absolutely no WR talent or TE talent this year

    QB absolutely loses all confidence due to circumstances above, or maybe never had the talent to be good anyway. No one really knows with any degree of certainty, but taken into account all the problems above sure aren't conducive to grooming a young raw QB with limited college experience....
    +1

    We ruined him.

  5. #65
    What decline?

    He's hoisted this team on his shoulder at most, 3 times in over 50 games.

    3 times he was the offense. And none of them were in line with what a great QB puts up in those situations (400+ yards, 70+% completion percentage, 4+ TDs).

    He was handed the reins to a Super Bowl defense, o-line, and running game by a head coach who never has given a rats ass about his offense and told never to lose him the game.

    The line of errors is pretty huge:

    1) Drafter higher than his worth.
    2) West Coast kid with lack of experience thrust into the world's largest media market and told to win a Super Bowl by a bombastic first year head coach.
    3) Performance always mis-calculated: This has barely ever been a QB who has won games for the Jets.
    4) Drafted the year before rookie salary reform.
    5) Extended undeservedly.
    6) Massive culture shock. These issues run deep with this kid.

    Let me put it this way: There are 2nd rounders in this past year's draft who had more upside than Buttchez. Mentally and physically.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by rmeyer52 View Post
    How does a QB go from taking the team to the playoffs to looking completely lost and making mistakes that even rookies wouldn't make ? Is the curse still with this team ?
    Well, he was "taken" to the Playoffs in his first year with a QB Rating of 63.0 when Indy and Cincy lay down in the final two weeks of the season; otherwise the Jets are 8--8 at best. It also didn't hurt that the Jets D was ranked number 1 in the NFL, as measured both by points and yards surrendered. He then beat a weak Bengals team again a week later, but, to his credit, had a "Quality" playoff win over the Chargers, no matter how inept San Diego has proven to be over the years when the chips are down, before Peyton asserted his will on them in the AFCCG.

    You can't take too much away from the Jets, though, in his second season, when the team went 11--5, despite another mediocre year for Sanchez (75.3 rating). Again, the D was outstanding, ranked 3 in yards surrendered and 6 in points given up. The Offense was pretty much in the middle of the pack at 13th in points scored. They had two quality playoff wins over Indy and the Pats before getting beat by the Steelers.

    So, I think that Sanchez was "in the right place at the right time" in both of those cases and hadn't yet developed/deteriorated into his penchant for making bad mistakes at the worst possible time.

    He has never been anything but an "OK" NFL QB. As I have said out here many times, I think he will have a long, journeyman's career in the League, making decent money and getting at least one more crack at being a starter for a middle-market team without serious playoff ambitions before he settles into the role of acceptable backup for a couple of teams with a Franchise player under center. If he doesn't get hurt, I could see him having a 13--14 year NFL career in that capacity.

    It didn't help that he had to develop under the harsh glare of the New York media where a rookie HC tagged him with the label of "the Sanchize" almost from day one. The guy never had a chance to develop slowly and he probably also should have listened to Pete Carroll and spent another year at the College level. But, I don't think changing either would have changed the basic storyline, but we'll never know.

    He also never seemed to have a Brady- or P. Manning-like work ethic. I don't go as far as many and call him "lazy," but he didn't seem to have the fire either to practice and improve or to become the kind of leader that can "will" a team to win; put it this way, if his team was down 31--3 in the third quarter on a cold, rainy night, I don't see him bringing them back to tie and almost win the game.

    So, there's really no mystery to this denouement as far as I can see; it was inevitable all along and some of us have been saying it for, well, four years, even when he seemed to be winning.
    Last edited by NYCFan; 12-18-2012 at 11:59 PM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    +1

    The Jets ruined this kid.

    SAR I
    Yep, jets made him unable to throw a football with accuracy and fumble every other time he gets hit.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by rmeyer52 View Post
    How does a QB go from taking the team to the playoffs to looking completely lost and making mistakes that even rookies wouldn't make ? Is the curse still with this team ?
    There was no decline. He was never any good. He had a stacked team in 2009 and 2010. ANYONE could have looked good in that offense. But what's even more revealing is ANYONE other than Sanchez would have won the SB with the Jets offense in 2009 or 2010.

    He never improved one iota from his first day on the job. He continued to make the same dumb mistakes over and over and over again.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by rmeyer52 View Post
    How does a QB go from taking the team to the playoffs to looking completely lost and making mistakes that even rookies wouldn't make ? Is the curse still with this team ?
    The decline?

    When was the ascension?

    He came into the league he was horrible. Outside of a couple games, he continued to be horrible. Then he got progressively more horrible. Am I missing something?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    There was no decline. He was never any good. He had a stacked team in 2009 and 2010. ANYONE could have looked good in that offense. But what's even more revealing is ANYONE other than Sanchez would have won the SB with the Jets offense in 2009 or 2010.

    He never improved one iota from his first day on the job. He continued to make the same dumb mistakes over and over and over again.
    You nailed it

  11. #71
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    Sanchez did not decline...he just was not very good....the supporting cast is why we did well in 2009-2010......he will not be a Jet in 2013 and I for one will be happy.




    Quote Originally Posted by rmeyer52 View Post
    How does a QB go from taking the team to the playoffs to looking completely lost and making mistakes that even rookies wouldn't make ? Is the curse still with this team ?

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by IHATEDOLPHINS View Post
    I still say this all stems from that Ravens game last year where he got hammered all night.Those were vicious shots he took all night.To me he hasn't been the same since.
    +1000000

    I've always said that too. I'd also love to see a comparison of run attempts by Sanchez per game before and after that game.

    Remember how he used to run a lot? He NEVER runs anymore.

  13. #73
    There really isn't much of a decline. I think he's always been sorry. The difference is the league has moved more towards a passing league, and defenses have moved more towards a pass-defense league. Bad passers have increased turnovers and are exposed more often. Today's NFL require either surgical passing out of pocket quarterbacks, or dual pass rush QB's who can run the spread option.

    It's harder to make a career in the NFL as a game manager, unless maybe your team has Adrian Peterson.

  14. #74
    Am I alone in that every time I see the ass fumble gif, no matter how many times I see it, I still fall into a state of absolute bewilderment wondering WTF he was doing and how he managed to run face first, full speed, into someones ass?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    I was not advocating for Sanchez. Just trying to put my take on why he is where he is now -- not fit to start for any NFL team.

    He clearly has no pocket presence now, but in his second year he seemed to have a knack for avoiding pressure and extending plays. He did it often in the many comeback wins that season. Then LT retired leaving the Jets without a RB capable of picking up a blitz and Wayne Hunter was handed a starting job he did not deserve. Sanchez has had his clock cleaned too many times to count the past two seasons. Hard to have pocket presence when half the pass plays turn into fire drills.

    I too, am tired of settling for an OK QB. I want the Jets to set their expectations high for the QB, and to always keep the door open until they find that guy.
    So many people dismissed the LT factor and assumed that any average Joe could "rush for 3 ypg and catcha ball out the backfield". LT offered a lot to this team that didnt show up in the stat line, including leadership, and blitz pick up.

    Call me crazy, but i also think the Cotchery release was a bad move. Im not sure if they did it due to contract issues (see Pete Kendall), but the Cotch release and D Mason signing/release all happened around that infamous Ravens game last year, and i never saw the team take a step forward after that.
    Cotchery was the leading receiver on the team a few years back with Mark, and I couldnt count how many great catches Cotch had to bail out 3rd downs in playoff situations that year.....at least 4 to my immediate recollection....Then he was released to make room for Mason, and has had a decent few years in PITT.
    I know Cotch was no burner or athletic phenom, but the guy was a player, and CLUTCH. I honestly think it hurt Sanchez.

    Oh well. I hold hope for the future. Go Jets.

  16. #76
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    He was decent when he was not asked to do anything. We ran the ball, played defense and gave him one option when throwing the ball.

    When we asked him to carry the team and play like an elite nfl qb, he couldnt handle it.

    I dont think he declined. His 1st 2 years werent good. He wasnt asked to do much.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    He didn't take us to the play offs. Our defense did.

    The explanation is this:

    1. He came into the league and he sucked.

    2. He doesn't care or have any passion for winning.

    3. As a result of point #2, continued to suck even more.

    Looking forward to the day I never even have to hear the name Sanchez mentioned ever again.
    Laid-back, everyday's like Saturday, SoCal dude.....move on.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    I agree with you on this. From my view it's all about his field vision and accuracy. When people say he makes bad decisions, IMO it's really due to him not seeing everything he is supposed to see on the field, and the only possible way for Sanchez to recover from this is to spend some time on the bench, continue to study, practice, and hopefully have a QB coach that can actually help him. Right now he is completely lost on the football field and there is zero hope of him turning things around in the current situation. He has got to go -- for the good of the Jets, and for his own good. If he is going to reclaim his career, it will not occur any time soon. He has to be re-built from scratch.

    While more highly touted than Sanchez coming out of college, I have this weird feeling that he could have a career a little like Jim Plunkett's. Poor Plunkett was killed behind a terrible Pat O line. He was sacked 112 times in his first 3 seasons (and remember they were 14 game seasons and you could really HIT the QB back then). Plunkett needed time to figure things out and to be placed in the right system. By the time he got an opportunity in Oakland to start due to an injury, the game had slowed down for him and he really understood what he was trying to accomplish on the field. It took 9 long seasons before Plunkett turned things around and became an effective starter.

    If Sanchez sticks with it and keeps his work ethic, he may learn more on the bench than he did being thrust into a starting role, and perhaps the next time he gets an opportunity the game will have slowed down for him and he will have little resemblance to the current train wreck edition of Mark Sanchez.
    I actually see a bit of Jake Plummer in Sanchez. Remember when his career was resurected in Denver when a coach figured out that his only good attribute was throwing on the run. Plummer was never above average even in his second gig but he was servicable. In the end of the day Sanchez career as a Jet is finished. I see his career arc following that of David Carr. He will likely find work as a backup QB for a few years though I highly doubt that will be for the Jets.

  19. #79
    if sanchez didn't go to usc, nobody would have thought he was good anyway. he was a product of pete carroll's usc machine.

    i think what we're all seeing is, how a good athlete with a good pedigree can fail if he does not have the mental capacity to handle the nuances of the position and the pressure of the new york media. the jets need a mature qb who can restore credibility to the franchise. this team can't have a guy who is always mentioned in the newspapers about who he's dating, can't have him eating hot dogs on the bench and can't have him running into his lineman's butt. not only does he stink as a qb, but he's helped make the team into more of a joke than it already is.

    sanchez was supposed to be the face of the franchise, but isn't. rex is now. the jets need a player who can help restore credibility to this team.

  20. #80
    Let me get this out of the way before I share my thoughts on Sanchez. I think they should let McElroy throw at least 30 times in the next couple of games to get a feel for him. If not the Jets coaching staff should be fired yesterday. If he looks good (that arm looks CP like though) make him the starting QB going into next year. Tebow should go elsewhere and try to make a play on a real HC and OC next year. Also as much as I would love for the Jets to win with McElroy, I think losing out will hep this team get better leverage come draft day. We should trade this pick for multiple picks in the 2nd round IMO. Keep Braylon and draft offfense!!

    Onto Sanchez... I am of the side that Sanchez has the talents to compete in the NFL level and agree with mostly SAR's post that Rex's approach to win football games was detrimental to Mark. There are absolutely no play makers on this team on offense. That is on Tanny and Rex. How does a guy who had a hand in 32 TD's last year running the number 1 RED ZONE offense become absolutlely garbage. Jets fans seem to forget that.
    In hindsight I actually prefer Schottys offense to Sparano's. Schotty had a read offense were guys adjusted on the fly. The issue last year was we had no deep threat to keep the safeties back. Sparano's offense is predictable, and keeps sending 1 guy deep. If you have no WR's that can get open underneath, safties will always cheat deep which compounded the problem for Mark. In the last game if Cumberland makes that TD catch the who knows how the game would have been called. ie more running plays. This is offense is flawed and when there is a chance to make a play you've got to make it, even just to help your QB out (playmakers!!!!)
    Mark did have talent around him in his first 2 years and we went far in the playoffs and he played great.
    Andrew Luck might be better than Mark but so far its looking similar...75 rating, 54% comp%, 18 int. What will the colts do next year....Im sure its not trade Reggie Wayne. thanks for listening and happy holidays.

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