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Thread: Mike and Mike in the morning: Jets didn't have a clue what to do with Tebow.

  1. #21
    It's amazing that even in a bad year like this, the worst and most annoying thing wasn't even the game play.

    It's been Tebow and everything about him/it. From the fans at the games screaming for him, to private jet travel to big press conferences. And all the god awful senseless talk and speculation in between on TV, radio, forums...

    Again personally the guy seems like a good kid but his skill doesn't warrant all this BS.

    I can't wait for him to be gone. Hands down, this has been the single biggest mistake made by Woody.

  2. #22
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    Speaking of clueless Timmy...

    We send him out to call the opening toss in Jacksonville...He calls heads...it is tails...

    Timmy has no doubt been told to choose an endzone assuming that the Jags will etake the ball if they win or the Jets will defer and choose that endzone if they win.

    Jacksonville screws up things by deferring. Timmy looks around obviously confused and you can clearly see him pointing to the ref towards one endzone...The referee decides to be compassionate and you can see him explaining to Timmy that he can choose to receive. Timmy begins to point again and thankfully one of the other captains jumps and says we'll take the ball avoiding Timmy choosing to kick off in both halves.

    Of course this was not a Cmon Man story on the Bristol Teblow fan club network

    But it really happened



    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ytfootballfan View Post
    They're talking about it this morning and I'm glad somebody finally got it and said it. I have been saying it since preseason and someone other than Bayless, Greeny, finally pointed it out, that unlike every other dual pass rush quarterback that's currently playing in the NFL the Jets were too stupid to figure out how to implement the spread option. Instead they had him run the same freaking Wildcat plays up the middle or placed him under center during the preseason.

    Now before anyone chimes in with the typical, "can't throw" comments please realize one of the best deep ball throwers in the NFL last year was Tebow. And the main reason for this is the same reason guys like Colin K, Newton, RG3 and Russel Wilson are completing passes at a completion percentage which rival Manning, Brady and Rodgers. Now granted they are much better passers than Tebow but the main reason for this isn't because these rookies are the surgeons the elite QB's of this league are, but because that's what the spread option does for you as a quarterback. It makes it really easy to complete passes when the defenses bites on the run, can't play the same pass defense schemes they can against a typical pocket passer because they have to commit one extra guy to your QB and either leaves guys wide open or in favorable man coverage match ups. Usually the 1 extra guy you commit to stopping the extra rusher, leaves your safeties and secondary exploitable to bombs down field.

    It's a moot point now, but I'm just glad to see someone at ESPN is at least smart enough to notice this.
    Oh look, it's Tebow's publicist again

  4. #24
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    If you have to change your whole offense just to go 8-8, it's not worth it.

    Denver goes from 8-8 to 13-3 with the only thing changing is the QB. Real passers matter.

  5. #25
    Picking up Tebow should have been good move for the New York Jets. They just botched it from day one. The play design and calling was atrocious when he was in there and he got so little playing time that when he was called to go in for a full series he was crap (last game).

    The Jets hired Sparano.
    The Jets including Rex wanted to run the wildcat.
    Tebow should have been the ideal guy to run the wildcat, spread or not. He has escapability and can throw deep.

    In the end Tebow is such a miniscule part of what went wrong with this team it's laughable that he gets brought up in every 2nd post.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    If you have to change your whole offense just to go 8-8, it's not worth it.

    Denver goes from 8-8 to 13-3 with the only thing changing is the QB. Real passers matter.
    people assume that because rex wants a run-oriented offense, then tebow fits in rex's vision of that offense. that's the disconnect. rex wants a traditional nfl pocket passer who can make quick reads, get the ball out quickly, throw the ball away instead of taking unnecessary chances and play smart football. he doesn't want tebow running around, where howard has his blind side, where the offense becomes a playground type play every other play. he wants greene and powell running the ball and he wants a qb who can hit cumberland in stride for a 7 yard gain, he wants a qb who can hit the slant on the correct shoulder, he wants a qb who throws the ball away instead of throwing it into triple coverage or holding the ball with one hand so it can get swatted out. clearly rex did not want tebow, or he would have used him more as the offense sputtered.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Picking up Tebow should have been good move for the New York Jets. They just botched it from day one. The play design and calling was atrocious when he was in there and he got so little playing time that when he was called to go in for a full series he was crap (last game).

    The Jets hired Sparano.
    The Jets including Rex wanted to run the wildcat.
    Tebow should have been the ideal guy to run the wildcat, spread or not. He has escapability and can throw deep.

    In the end Tebow is such a miniscule part of what went wrong with this team it's laughable that he gets brought up in every 2nd post.
    tebow is an easy example to point to of the organization's poor decision making. he is not a primary cause of sanchez's demise or the lack of offensive skill talent.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ytfootballfan View Post
    I'm over myself.

    It's those that take on the arrogant and ignorant attitude that anyone that likes Tebow must like him for other reason than football or don't know football.

    I'm a football fan first, before anything else. So I take offense to anyone who tries to discredit a solid and educated argument based on the fact that I like Tebow. That's retarded.
    Could be a coincidence but you joined the board in October...perhaps you're more biased toward Tebow than you're letting on?

    TT is a great guy but he is nothing but an oddity in today's NFL. Could he occasionally be effective on certain gimmick plays when on the field with a quality QB? Perhaps but then again why would a team with a good/great QB need Tebow on their team in the first place?

    He simply is not good enough.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by ytfootballfan View Post
    I don't love Tebow but yea I like Tebow. What is wrong with that?

    That doesn't mean I can't look at things objectively and I can't comment on the situation objectively. Does me being a fan of Tebow somehow disqualify me from passing educated, football based, arguments?.

    I'll put up my football acumen against anyone if you'd like but from what I see on this forum, most people don't want that and those who hate Tebow have very few logical reasons to back up their dislike of him or any of his fans.

    I've watched football and quarterbacks long before Tebow ever played a snap. I don't think he's a savior. I don't he's elite. I don't think he God's gift. I didn't even think he should start in this system over Sanchez and I don't think he should start in this system over McElroy.

    I do think he was a damn good spread option QB in college who's in the wrong system here, has been misused, and given the opportunity he can do just as good a job running the spread option at the NFL level as guys like Wilson, Newton or Kaepernick. None of these guys are doing anything that different than what they did in college. I'm convinced of this.
    Good post. I'd agree with this and I'm no Tebowite. I do think the guy has been poorly used this season and could have contributed far more than he did. He was nothing than a media distraction.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotReign View Post
    Could be a coincidence but you joined the board in October...perhaps you're more biased toward Tebow than you're letting on?

    TT is a great guy but he is nothing but an oddity in today's NFL. Could he occasionally be effective on certain gimmick plays when on the field with a quality QB? Perhaps but then again why would a team with a good/great QB need Tebow on their team in the first place?

    He simply is not good enough.
    I freely admitted I like Tebow. I also like Brady. And Luck. And RG3. And a lot of other quarterbacks. Don't you have players you like? I don't think that keeps me from making an objective analysis of a guy.

    For example, I would argue it's the naysayers that don't know what they are talking about or simply making shallow comments. You say..."Gimmick offense". Well, why is it a gimmick offense? Ever analyzed it? What is it that makes you think the spread option is a gimmick? If you're a Pats fan, as I am, you would realize the Patriots just got beat by a guy running a "gimmick" offense. He scored 4 touchdowns out of this gimmick offense. Remember the game against Seattle earlier this year? The reason the secondary got burnt and Seattle had receivers behind our safeties, was also because of this "gimmick offense". John Harbaugh opted to move away from the WCO with Smith to the spread option, with Colin K. Why is this?

    Because it works.

    Running a full fledged spread option offense, which Tebow has shown he is fully capable of doing(and for the record didn't really get a chance to do in Denver because they mainly focused on read option rushing plays), is no more gimmicky than a pro style offense and certainly not much different than the offenses led by the Panthers, Seattle, Redskins or 49ers.

    The spread option is NOT a gimmick. It's the staple of college football and it's breaking into the NFL. From everything I am seeing, it is the future of the NFL. The Wildcat here is a gimmick, true. Because it's a couple of plays out of an offense whose play designs can be as numerous as the size of the Bible and as complex as anything else.

    Show me what it is that RG3, Colin K, Newton, or Wilson is doing different in terms of running plays in the NFL that is that much different than what Urban Meyer and Tim Tebow ran in Florida. Newton runs the spread option with a lot of read option plays thrown in. RG3 runs the read option. Wilson does it. They all pass mainly out of double option, triple option and pistol formations when the defense stack the box and try to stop the run. It makes it very easy to pass too.

    Most of these plays these guys are running at the NFL level are straight from the college playbook. And that's a fact. It's silly to think he can't do it too when he's already shown he can.

    In fact I would argue, some guys like Andrew Luck, are being held back by being boxed into a pro style offense, completely removing his rushing aspect, whereas if the Colts were running the spread option, he could be putting up similar numbers to that of Newton and RG3.

    People love to say what you would have with Tebow is a gimmick offense without actually understanding it's the same freaking thing all of these other dual rush QB's are running who are putting up great numbers and having huge success with it, in the NFL. It's not a gimmick when you have 4-5 NFL teams fully committing to it, and still shredding defenses on week 16. Let's just state the facts.

    The 49ers passed over a traditional NFL QB for a spread option QB and putting their season, playoffs and Superbowl hopes in his hands.
    Seattle passed over Matt Flynn to put their team on an undersized, spread option QB.

    The difference is guys like Harbaugh, and Pete Carrol have had recent experience in college with the spread option and believe in it. John Fox, McCoy, Rex Ryan, and Sparano...simply don't have the experience with it. They don't believe in it. And also as a Pats fan, our current OC is the guy who drafted him. He believed he could make it work with Tebow too.
    Last edited by ytfootballfan; 12-19-2012 at 10:54 AM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ytfootballfan View Post
    I freely admitted I like Tebow. I also like Brady. And Luck. And RG3. And a lot of other quarterbacks. Don't you have players you like? I don't think that keeps me from making an objective analysis of a guy.

    For example, I would argue it's the naysayers that don't know what they are talking about or simply making shallow comments. You say..."Gimmick offense". Well, why is it a gimmick offense? Ever analyzed it? What is it that makes you think the spread option is a gimmick? If you're a Pats fan, as I am, you would realize the Patriots just got beat by a guy running a "gimmick" offense. He scored 4 touchdowns out of this gimmick offense. Remember the game against Seattle earlier this year? The reason the secondary got burnt and Seattle had receivers behind our safeties, was also because of this "gimmick offense". John Harbaugh opted to move away from the WCO with Smith to the spread option, with Colin K. Why is this?

    Because it works.

    Running a full fledged spread option offense, which Tebow has shown he is fully capable of doing(and for the record didn't really get a chance to do in Denver because they mainly focused on read option rushing plays), is no more gimmicky than a pro style offense and certainly not much different than the offenses led by the Panthers, Seattle, Redskins or 49ers.

    The spread option is NOT a gimmick. It's the staple of college football and it's breaking into the NFL. From everything I am seeing, it is the future of the NFL. The Wildcat here is a gimmick, true. Because it's a couple of plays out of an offense whose play designs can be as numerous as the size of the Bible and as complex as anything else.

    Show me what it is that RG3, Colin K, Newton, or Wilson is doing different in terms of running plays in the NFL that is that much different than what Urban Meyer and Tim Tebow ran in Florida. Newton runs the spread option with a lot of read option plays thrown in. RG3 runs the read option. Wilson does it. They all pass mainly out of double option, triple option and pistol formations when the defense stack the box and try to stop the run. It makes it very easy to pass too.

    Most of these plays these guys are running at the NFL level are straight from the college playbook. And that's a fact. It's silly to think he can't do it too when he's already shown he can.

    In fact I would argue, some guys like Andrew Luck, are being held back by being boxed into a pro style offense, completely removing his rushing aspect, whereas if the Colts were running the spread option, he could be putting up similar numbers to that of Newton and RG3.

    People love to say what you would have with Tebow is a gimmick offense without actually understanding it's the same freaking thing all of these other dual rush QB's are running who are putting up great numbers and having huge success with it, in the NFL. It's not a gimmick when you have 4-5 NFL teams fully committing to it, and still shredding defenses on week 16. Let's just state the facts.

    The 49ers passed over a traditional NFL QB for a spread option QB and putting their season, playoffs and Superbowl hands in his place.
    Seattle passed over Matt Flynn to put their team on an undersized, spread option QB.

    The difference is guys like Harbaugh, and Pete Carrol have had recent experience in college with the spread option. John Fox, McCoy, Rex Ryan, and Sparano...simply don't have the experience with it. And also as a Pats fan, our current OC is the guy who drafted him. He believed he could make it work with Tebow too.
    Ok...how about this. Those other QB's are far more talented at 'gimmick' and / or spread plays than Tebow. Spread plays or not TT's limitations were horrificaly exposed in the playoffs last year with a good Denver team. If Luck and RGIII similarly don't carry their team deep into the playoffs it won't be because their skill set deficiences are even close to Tebow's.

    TT is simply not a well rounded QB and is easy for any decent defense to stop.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotReign View Post
    Ok...how about this. Those other QB's are far more talented at 'gimmick' and / or spread plays than Tebow. Spread plays or not TT's limitations were horrificaly exposed in the playoffs last year with a good Denver team. If Luck and RGIII similarly don't carry their team deep into the playoffs it won't be because their skill set deficiences are even close to Tebow's.

    TT is simply not a well rounded QB and is easy for any decent defense to stop.


    Well we'll just agree to disagree. And I don't blame you from drawing that conclusion if all you have seen was last year.

    All I know is that this kid passed the hell out of the ball in college. Over 4 years had 9285 passing yards, 88 touchdowns, 16 interceptions, and a 170.8 passer rating....and that's a hell of a lot better than what McElroy did in college. He also had a chance to play under 2 coaches and 2 different offensive coordinators in the NFL.

    In his limited exposure in the last couple of games in 2010 under Josh McDaniels, Tebow completed 50% of his passes, averaged 30+ passing attempts per game, and more importantly averaged 7.98 passing yards per attempt. That's strong.

    Under John Fox and McCoy, Tebow barely hovered around 20 passes per game, and 6.38 passing yards per attempt.

    That should at least raise some eyebrows to anyone that is really interested in figuring out what's going on. I assume no one here actually thinks he designs the playbook or called his own plays.

    Everyone wants to blame the passing aspects of the offense on Tebow, and it's easy to do that based on his unusual mechanics. But I also know John Fox is a guy who has been repeatedly quoted as saying: "when you throw the ball, 3 things can happen and 2 of them are bad". The man loves to run the ball over and over again. So if you match up one of the best rushing QB's to come out of college in the past decade with a guy like John Fox, that's pretty much the offense I would expect to see.

    But it is hardly all that Tebow can do out of the spread option. I don't think he's any less capable at throwing the ball out of the spread option as the rest of these quarterbacks given the opportunity because I saw him do it in college. And if other guys are proving these plays are working in the NFL, then Tebow should feel right at home with an offensive coordinator who do for him what other coaches and offensive coordinator did for those guys.
    Last edited by ytfootballfan; 12-19-2012 at 11:34 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ytfootballfan View Post
    I highly doubt that. If anything, everything I saw from McElroy beginning with his first pass in the 4th quarter which looked like a purposely dropped interception at the 2 yard line against Arizona tells me this is just another terrible decision in a long string of terrible decisions made by the coaching and executive staff of this team.

    Tebow's not going into the CFL or UFL or wherever else you believe he belongs. He'll be in the NFL and the more popular the spread option becomes the more teams will be interested in giving him a shot to run it.

    The good news for him is spread option quarterbacks get hurt quite often in the NFL, and he's most likely to get a chance soon even if he ends up being traded and a back up somewhere else.

    I think in the end the Jets will end up looking like even bigger fools than they do right now.

    2 more games an Tebow and his cult will be gone!!!!!!

    Get Tebow off our Team!!!

  14. #34
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    Tebow's college stats mean nothing because the bandwidth on this site would crash if I listed all the superstar college QB's who sucked in the NFL or were 1/10th as effective playing in the NFL. TT falls in there somewhere.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ytfootballfan View Post
    Well we'll just agree to disagree.
    You can agree to disagree, but you'll still be completely wrong.

    Tebow has one of the slowest releases of any QB in the NFL and takes longer to secure the ball under center than other QBs. He also does not have NFL caliber delivery. And, he's a 1 read QB. That's why his deep passes worked.

    RGIII and Luck are quantumly better passers than Tebow so your comparison to them is ridiculous. It's like trying to equate Fitzpatrick to Peyton Manning because both are pocket passers. Just because they theoretically play the same style doesn't mean they're equally as good.

    Does this mean Tebow is doomed as a QB? No. It means he has to improve his mechanics and his play.

    Tebow fans like yourself do Tebow a great disservice by believing his lack of QB fundamentals and unconventional playing style are immaterial for a long NFL career as a starting QB.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    You can agree to disagree, but you'll still be completely wrong.
    LOL, well said.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotReign View Post
    Tebow's college stats mean nothing because the bandwidth on this site would crash if I listed all the superstar college QB's who sucked in the NFL or were 1/10th as effective playing in the NFL. TT falls in there somewhere.
    Well my argument wasn't just based on that. However to your point, that's probably because until today, college QB's who were drafted and ran the spread option in college, didn't get to run the spread option in the NFL.

    They were all expected to learn pro style offenses. This isn't the case anymore. Teams are proving the spread option is just as viable at the NFL level.

    I'm not saying Tebow can be a successful quarterback in a traditional offense. What I am saying is the spread option itself, as an offense, is successful in the NFL. Tebow can run the spread option, both the passing and running aspects.

    And I believe he can be more successful in the spread option, in the NFL, than some of these mediocre quarterbacks like Sanchez will ever be in a traditional NFL offense.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ytfootballfan View Post
    Well my argument wasn't just based on that. However to your point, that's probably because until today, college QB's who were drafted and ran the spread option in college, didn't get to run the spread option in the NFL.

    They were all expected to learn pro style offenses. This isn't the case anymore. Teams are proving the spread option is just as viable at the NFL level.

    I'm not saying Tebow can be a successful quarterback in a traditional offense. What I am saying is the spread option itself, as an offense, is successful in the NFL. Tebow can run the spread option, both the passing and running aspects.

    And I believe he can be more successful in the spread option, in the NFL, than some of these mediocre quarterbacks like Sanchez will ever be in a traditional NFL offense.
    Tebow DID NOT successfully run the spread offense in the NFL. He consistently led the offense to under 20 ppg and led the NFL in 3 & outs. The defense had to keep the team in the game so he could have those 4th quarter victories.

    He was also horrible in the final 3 games of the season and only won the division because of the Raiders collapse. In fact, Tebow lost 4 of his last 5 games, including postseason.

    Tebow lacks the passing ability to run a succesful spread option in the NFL.

  19. #39
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    Why was Tebow successful running the spread offense in college? Because he had a career 67.1 completion percentage.

    He is under 48% in the NFL. That simply won't cut it.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    Tebow DID NOT successfully run the spread offense in the NFL. He consistently led the offense to under 20 ppg and led the NFL in 3 & outs. The defense had to keep the team in the game so he could have those 4th quarter victories.

    He was also horrible in the final 3 games of the season and only won the division because of the Raiders collapse. In fact, Tebow lost 4 of his last 5 games, including postseason.

    Tebow lacks the passing ability to run a successful spread option in the NFL.
    Incorrect. John Fox didn't successfully implement the spread option in the NFL. John Fox mainly ran zone read and read option plays which are just the running aspects of the spread option. It was created in a bye week. And all they did was ran the damn ball. He's not calling the plays.

    Come on man. Go back and look at what Josh McDaniels did with him at the end of 2010 where he mixed the spread option with play action passes much like these teams are doing this year. For example, go back and watch the Houston game where he went 16 /29 55% and 308 passing yards. He didn't just ran the option, he was under center most of that game running play action.

    You can say he didn't do it consistently. But he HAS done it. Whether or not he can do it consistently is a different question. But I saw him do it with my own two eyes, there are full games for you to go back and watch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnEuisuFFM8

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