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Thread: Is this a sollution to the Sanchez cap problem?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJames View Post
    Veteran players renegotiate all the time when they are told either renegotiate or we will cut you.
    If this plan was allowed under the CBA, teams could easily extort players who have guaranteed money coming to them. The Nflpa would never allow it.

    We made a bad deal - we just have to live with it.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJames View Post
    Well no, thats a signing bonus. The guaranteed money we are talking about is not the prorated signing bonus.
    But it can be in a redone contract..

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by GreeneWarMachine View Post
    Nope
    This. What you are talking about here is Mark leaving big money on the table and walking away. That is not going to happen. He is guaranteed to make 17-22 mil from us over the next year. Why on earth would he wave even 5 mil of that to make what 2 mil a year somewhere else. No one is going to take his 8.5 mil next year no one. On top of that His bonus over the last 3 years of his deal is already more then he'd make in FA. Even if he felt he could be a good QB somewhere else he'd still likely just make more money bleeding us dry. The only way I could see it is if we asked the league to let us spread the hit over 2-3 years but that would set a president I think. Fact is we let his suck out there too long and now he has almost no value at all.
    Last edited by Dreamers; 12-24-2012 at 07:24 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by MrJames View Post
    Veteran players renegotiate all the time when they are told either renegotiate or we will cut you.
    You're not distinguishing guaranteed vs. non-guaranteed money. If money is not-guaranteed, then you can renegotiate. However, you can't renegotiate a contract to make it clearly worse.

    If you change $10M non-guaranteed to $5M non-guaranteed, that's OK - especially if you add in a small amount that's guaranteed. You can argue it's a better contract for the player. If you're cut you get $0, so a smaller # might make you more likely to stick.

    Changing $10M guaranteed to $10M non-guaranteed is clearly worse - and the player's union won't allow it (even if the player wants to do it).

    In general, threatening to try to ruin a player's career in exchange for him giving up guaranteed money should be such an obviously stupid idea that I'm surprised that anyone would start a thread suggesting it. And I'm not surprised by much...

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    because Sanchez isn't a moron?
    link?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by thshadow View Post
    You're not distinguishing guaranteed vs. non-guaranteed money. If money is not-guaranteed, then you can renegotiate. However, you can't renegotiate a contract to make it clearly worse.

    If you change $10M non-guaranteed to $5M non-guaranteed, that's OK - especially if you add in a small amount that's guaranteed. You can argue it's a better contract for the player. If you're cut you get $0, so a smaller # might make you more likely to stick.

    Changing $10M guaranteed to $10M non-guaranteed is clearly worse - and the player's union won't allow it (even if the player wants to do it).

    In general, threatening to try to ruin a player's career in exchange for him giving up guaranteed money should be such an obviously stupid idea that I'm surprised that anyone would start a thread suggesting it. And I'm not surprised by much...
    Could you point to the relevant portion of the CBA that prohibits such a thing ??

  7. #27
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    Not only is it plausible but they clearly should do it. Sanchez may call the bluff but stick with it, who cares. If Sanchez doesn't renegotiate his contract to make him trade-able let him waste a year. As long as he never takes a snap for the Jets again I'm happy.

    I've already accepted the fact that next year is a 4 win season at best.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by thshadow View Post
    You're not distinguishing guaranteed vs. non-guaranteed money. If money is not-guaranteed, then you can renegotiate. However, you can't renegotiate a contract to make it clearly worse.

    If you change $10M non-guaranteed to $5M non-guaranteed, that's OK - especially if you add in a small amount that's guaranteed. You can argue it's a better contract for the player. If you're cut you get $0, so a smaller # might make you more likely to stick.

    Changing $10M guaranteed to $10M non-guaranteed is clearly worse - and the player's union won't allow it (even if the player wants to do it).

    In general, threatening to try to ruin a player's career in exchange for him giving up guaranteed money should be such an obviously stupid idea that I'm surprised that anyone would start a thread suggesting it. And I'm not surprised by much...
    The thing is, no part of that true.

  9. #29
    Jets aren't trading Mark. Ugly cap implications and nobody wants him. They can get rid of Teabag.

    Just sign Vince Young to a 1 year deal at league minimum and let him and McElroy compete for the starting job next year. Suckchez can be the most well-compensated placekick holder in the history of sports.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    Jets aren't trading Mark. Ugly cap implications and nobody wants him. They can get rid of Teabag.

    Just sign Vince Young to a 1 year deal at league minimum and let him and McElroy compete for the starting job next year. Suckchez can be the most well-compensated placekick holder in the history of sports.
    No, worst thing that could happen is Young has moderate success and they sign him to multi-year deal. He's not the answer. Bite the bullet next year with McElroy, run it 40 times a game, next year is a lost season.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by MrJames View Post
    Whoever is running the show here can say something like this: "You have a guaranteed contract but we arent going to play you. Not only that, we are not going to dress you for single game. You can certainly do that, but if you would like to be released then you will have to renegotiate your contract."

    If Sanchez is under the belief that he has no future in the NFL then OK, there is nothing we can do. But assuming he believes that he does have a future, he would likely give up the guaranteed money to for his freedom. He wouldnt lose a year and would be able to select the location that he thinks would best jump start his career. Seems like a win/win.

    Edit: it doesnt even have to be an all or nothing proposition. A negotiation may lead to his giving up part of the money.

    Is this plausible?
    Something tells me that Sanchez doesn't believe he has a future in the league. Therefore, even if he isn't active for the games, he'll choose to collect the money he's guaranteed.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Something tells me that Sanchez doesn't believe he has a future in the league. Therefore, even if he isn't active for the games, he'll choose to collect the money he's guaranteed.
    That's better than him actually playing though

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by mluongo View Post
    That's better than him actually playing though
    Not altogether though. It's a good thing that he wouldn't be playing but we'll also be hamstrung in getting better talent. The 8.25 million Sanchez is due in guaranteed money is an enormous abatross that will prevent the FO from replenishing talent on the field.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by mluongo View Post
    No, worst thing that could happen is Young has moderate success and they sign him to multi-year deal. He's not the answer. Bite the bullet next year with McElroy, run it 40 times a game, next year is a lost season.
    If Young does anything next yr the Jets might give him a 1 yr deal. Worst case scenario McElroy beats him out for the starting job and we see what he does with a better supporting cast.

    I see 0 downside to signing Vince Young as a cheap backup to competing with McElroy. Fill the other needs in draft and FA.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by MrJames View Post
    I am not sure why you all think it is so funny that Sanchez would renegotiate to get out of here. It would cost him money, sure, but it would give him an opportunity to resurrect his career.
    he will agree to drop approx $1.5 million of his guaranteed contract.
    thats it.

    NOT coincidentally, thats also the price of a crappy second string QB

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
    Disagree ... You would simply be giving him a choice ... making it clear he would never play another down as a starting QB for the jets ... Or walking away to find employment elsewhere. Why would the jets feel the need to pay him if he opts to leave? .. The choice is his.
    1. First his market value right now is as low as it is going to get.

    2. He needs to rehab himself mentally. The best way to do that is to watch from the sidelines and process the game thru.

    3. he gets to sit and watch film and maybe get better coaching.

    4. What the hell does it tell the other players on the team, that when the jets give you guaranteed money, it is not really guaranteed. No longer will the jets tell a FA take small money the 1st year and we will guarantee money down the road to get over a cap bump. Players understand that they can be cut, so they get money up front or in guarantees, you will ruin any trust in the jets.

    5. The distraction he will cause and the sympathy he will gather in the media.
    So he flopped, it is not like he did not try or he took drugs, or drove DUI. For sucking you ride the bench, you dont get your money that you could have gotten as a SB taken away.

    6. Holmes gets to keep his guarantees after being a jerk of his own accord, but mark loses his even though he at least tried his best and was a good soldier.
    Last edited by patman; 12-25-2012 at 08:38 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Something tells me that Sanchez doesn't believe he has a future in the league. Therefore, even if he isn't active for the games, he'll choose to collect the money he's guaranteed.
    He understands that this may be his last contract and the last $$ he will earn.

    The only hope for the jets is to give Mark permission to shop himself and ask him him to adjust his salary downward by the new amount. He gets to go where he wants to and some team is stupid enough to give him more than 4.6mill to balance out the 2014 pro ration that will hit in 2013 for a trade or cut.
    Last edited by patman; 12-25-2012 at 08:42 AM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by MrJames View Post
    The thing is, no part of that true.
    What part in not true, if Mark ever gave up guaranteed money he would be a pariah in any NFL locker room. Can you imagine the precedent that would set?
    As teams try to pressure players to give up guaranteed money for the good of the team.

    "Well why not? Mark Sanchez put the good of the jets before his own self interest, why won't you?"

    This isn't crossing a picket line because your having to feed your family, other union members can forgive that eventually, but to give up guaranteed money, when clearly it is not in your best interest to do so.

    Plus if they screw with Mark too much, every time practice runs 5 min over, the players rep will be filing a grievance with the league office.

    It is apparent that you never were part of a union.

  19. #39
    Sanchez won't renegotiate because he knows his career as a starting QB in the NFL is over. This is his last big payday, and he knows it. He might get picked up as a backup somewhere in 2014 but he won't be signed for any more than the veteran minimum. The chances of him renegotiating his contract is probably less than 5 percent.

  20. #40
    The reason Sanchez started every game is because Sanchez, while sucking, is by far the most talented QB on our roster and is actually capable of running an NFL practice, something Tebow and Mcelroy can't even do at this point.

    The GM can only threaten Sanchez if they bring in someone who has the talent to challenge him. If they don't do that, which they didn't this year, they can't threaten him.

    There is currently a deficit of good QB's who can provide real competition who will come real cheap because there are other teams that have crappy QB's.

    This threat to blackball Sanchez doesn't have teeth because a HC who plays a week hand to make his GM look good will be fired by his owner and never work again. Sanchez will start next year for the same reason he started this year, he is the best QB on the roster. It sucks but it’s the truth.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 12-25-2012 at 09:12 AM.

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