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Thread: How To Fix The Jets In One Offseason

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark99 View Post
    Pipe dream a 1st for Cro & 2nd for Pouha.

    Would love to cut cancer Holmes b/c he's untradeable
    Cro just got voted to pro bowl ... Not a pipe dream at all.

  2. #22
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    Not going to happen. The issue is we still suck at every skill position. Not a single leader/difference maker in the bunch.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
    Cro just got voted to pro bowl ... Not a pipe dream at all.
    it is not his talent it is the 9.3 mill he will make. For instance the pats could use him to help fix one of thier biggest problems, but they can't afford him.

    So it is not just as easy as saying, there are 30 teams that by having Cro will improve the corner back position. It comes down
    1.to how many of those team value a corner making 9.3 mill,
    2.then how many of those teams have 9,3 mill to spend
    3 and of those teams that value a corner that much, and have that much to spend also have corner as their #1 need and not DT, QB, DE or any other positions.
    4. Then you eliminate the teams that sign a CB in Free agency and what you have left is the market for Cro.
    5 Now how many of those teams are also willing to pay a 1st rd pick and you got your trading partner.

    when you go thru all those scenarios you find that there is not a huge market for players making that kind of money who are not QBs.

    Cro is better than Samuel, but Samuel is still a very good cb. He had to take a cut in pay to 4 mill in order for Philly to get a late rd pick.

    Miami got a 2nd for Vontae Davis not because he is better than Samuel but that he had two years left on his rookie deal for 1mill a season.
    because there were 30 teams that could use him and pay him 1 mill dollars per year.

  4. #24
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    one season wont do.

    Yes get rid of Rex, its a CFL style of football right now, where you need to rule the air in order to rule the ground.

    bring in a new FO that wil build a team ready to go in 3 years, when Brady is going to be at an end. get a QB who can trow down field for christ sake. I'd call Vinny right now because i sure he can still chuck deep

    I would endure a couple of losing seasons if it meant re-building to build a good team in the post Brady era. The AFC East will be wide open

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
    Cro just got voted to pro bowl ... Not a pipe dream at all.
    Yeah, it is.
    Pro Bowl or not, no team is giving up a 1st for Cromartie.
    Draft picks a waaay too valuable. They are essentially very motivated cheap labor. No organization in any industry gives up that combination of individual.

    Just a question to anyone that may be paying attention:
    How many games does this team win if Rex is not coaching this team (as constructed)? Not very many. Maybe 2 or 3 IMO. That D feeds on weak offenses, and does a good job against strong ones. A "competent" QB and we are golden. It doesn't need to be a big name. Just someone who can maintain possession of the ball and lead us to two touchdowns and one or two field goals on a week to week average. Conduct a long time consuming drive once every half. Successfully pull those two tasks off 10 times and we're in the playoffs. Teams can't consistently put up big numbers on us unless our old players spend too much time on the field.
    Mind you, Rex coaching makes this possible. No one better than him is going to come to this organization. NFL personnel know what Rex is and if the Jets braintrust lets him go there is no reason to come anywhere near this team for anything other than a paycheck.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rextilleon View Post
    Dude, I would hire you tomorrow as GM. Seriously.
    Except half of it is unrealistic.....

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanNamath View Post
    Yeah, it is.
    Pro Bowl or not, no team is giving up a 1st for Cromartie.
    Draft picks a waaay too valuable. They are essentially very motivated cheap labor. No organization in any industry gives up that combination of individual.

    Just a question to anyone that may be paying attention:
    How many games does this team win if Rex is not coaching this team (as constructed)? Not very many. Maybe 2 or 3 IMO. That D feeds on weak offenses, and does a good job against strong ones. A "competent" QB and we are golden. It doesn't need to be a big name. Just someone who can maintain possession of the ball and lead us to two touchdowns and one or two field goals on a week to week average. Conduct a long time consuming drive once every half. Successfully pull those two tasks off 10 times and we're in the playoffs. Teams can't consistently put up big numbers on us unless our old players spend too much time on the field.
    Mind you, Rex coaching makes this possible. No one better than him is going to come to this organization. NFL personnel know what Rex is and if the Jets braintrust lets him go there is no reason to come anywhere near this team for anything other than a paycheck.
    Disagree ... The draft is a crap shoot ... Cro is on the good side of 30 and a known talent.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
    Disagree ... The draft is a crap shoot ... Cro is on the good side of 30 and a known talent.
    Nobody will give us a first for Cro....this is not Madden guys.
    Second, he is under contract for much longer than Revis is. Revis is the one to trade.

    People need to give up this obsession about having the best CB in the league, and start worrying about getting the best QB in the league. Its QB not CB that wins games.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
    Disagree ... The draft is a crap shoot ... Cro is on the good side of 30 and a known talent.
    Understood, but it is still 9.3 mill a year for a guy with two years left on his contract. 3 or 4 posts earlier I posted why I thought you don't see high paid guys traded.

    The jets are not the only team with cap issues, in order to make this trade a team will need to have 15mill under the cap, as they need money for thier rookies also. They are not that many teams with that much cap room that want to pay that much of their cap for a corner.

  10. #30
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    I'd rather have Carr's kid brother.

    BTW, the Jets can't cut Holmes. Financially it makes no sense. If they're going to make a financial move that makes no sense (financially speaking), it will be Mark Sanchez's release, not Santonio Holmes'.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonkertons View Post
    Sorry for the novel-sized post. Wanted to be as detailed as possible. Thanks.
    It's not the length thats the issue.

    It's that your plan is impossible under the Cap system, if full of unrealistic trade and signing scenarios, substantially weakens our defense across the board, does not improve our offense, and does very little to "rebuild" the Jets talent base on either side of the ball.

    As such, I respectfully disagree with this course of rebuilding.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaSteve View Post
    Except half of it is unrealistic.....
    Not if we're setting up a Madden '14 franchise.

    Maybe instead of a second round pick for Pouha we can get Larry Fitzgerald if we throw in Bilal Powell.

    You never know.

  13. #33
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    I don't think Cro for a 1st is really that unrealistic. His cap number is high, but he proved this year that he's an elite #1. If there is a team that feels an elite corner can put them over the top and help them contend for a Superbowl, I don't think they'd think twice about offering up a 1st as long as he can fit within their cap constraints.

    As far as Revis vs Cro, I don't think any team would pay what Revis is actually worth due to the injury. We will get nickel and dimed, and I would rather hold onto the best corner in the league than get a 2nd round pick. As far as the Jets are concerned, I have more confidence in Revis playing at a high level from next year on than I do with Cromartie, even after the injury.

    On Pouha, maybe a 2nd was a bit optimistic, but I could see him fetching a 3rd under the right circumstances. Similar to Cromartie, you would need to find a competitive 3-4 team who wants to lock down their NT position. Pouha has proven when healthy that he's an extremely good one. Considering Tim freaking Tebow netted a 4th rounder from a team that intended on using him as a backup(granted, the Jets are an odd breed) I don't see why Pouha couldn't bring us a 3rd if the market is right, and there generally always seems to be a market for good NTs.

    As far as the finances go with my original post, I had no idea some of these players' cap hits were as high as they are. Didn't realize Pace has a hit of $7.34M. There is no way we can keep him around with that number. We could also re-sign Slauson instead of Moore, to save about $3M. If we do end up switching to the 4-3, we could also look into moving Harris(assuming there is a 3-4 team willing to take on that insane cap-hit).

    Either way, maybe it would be impossible to fix this team in one offseason, but IMO we need to at least attempt to drastically change things here, acquiring as many pieces as we can. Even if we know that means we will be a bad team next season. This team is in need of a rebuild more than any other team in the league.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    It's not the length thats the issue.

    It's that your plan is impossible under the Cap system, if full of unrealistic trade and signing scenarios, substantially weakens our defense across the board, does not improve our offense, and does very little to "rebuild" the Jets talent base on either side of the ball.

    As such, I respectfully disagree with this course of rebuilding.
    Seems a bit harsh. Not sure how it can be unrealistic AND make the team worse. Thanks for the detailed response though.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 124 View Post
    I'd rather have Carr's kid brother.

    BTW, the Jets can't cut Holmes. Financially it makes no sense. If they're going to make a financial move that makes no sense (financially speaking), it will be Mark Sanchez's release, not Santonio Holmes'.
    And this my friend ... Is exactly why next year will be a lost season too. Santonio Holmes is the textbook description of a team cancer. He will undermine the new additions to the front office, he will continue to believe he is the center of the known universe, he will fail to put in the extra work needed to rise to the elite level his talents demand. He will continue create an atmosphere conducive to ignoring discipline.

    Is it possible he will catch a couple game winning TDs? ... Absolutely ... But he is not worth, nor has he ever been worth the money he commanded, and he will never be a team leader. Quite the opposite ... He will continue to hamper any young QBs progress, wether it continue to be Mark, a drafted rookie or whatever.

    Getting rid of this guy regardless of contract/cap ramifications would be the epitome of addition by subtraction.
    Last edited by Dunnie; 12-27-2012 at 10:25 AM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
    Disagree ... The draft is a crap shoot ... Cro is on the good side of 30 and a known talent.
    The draft has an element of speculation, and some luck, no doubt.

    But a crapshoot? A crap shoot means all luck/mostly luck. NOT TRUE at all.

    Good teams and Good GM's put in a TON of work to renove the risk element best they can.

    They draft from bigger schools, better character, look at work ethic, interview coaches, family etc...

    Some go to UMASS and take slow footed linemen based on the reports of others.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 124 View Post
    I'd rather have Carr's kid brother.
    I was thinking the same. but then I came to the decision the Carr NFL family will probably be more McCown than Manning.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 124 View Post
    Not if we're setting up a Madden '14 franchise.

    Maybe instead of a second round pick for Pouha we can get Larry Fitzgerald if we throw in Bilal Powell.

    You never know.
    What an idiot. Don't you know how much Larry makes? He could never fetch a player like Powell. We could probably get him for a 4th rounder with that cap hit.

    Unless that only applies to Cromartie and other Jets, and not the rest of the league...

  19. #39
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    So true

    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    The draft has an element of speculation, and some luck, no doubt.

    But a crapshoot? A crap shoot means all luck/mostly luck. NOT TRUE at all.

    Good teams and Good GM's put in a TON of work to renove the risk element best they can.

    They draft from bigger schools, better character, look at work ethic, interview coaches, family etc...

    Some go to UMASS and take slow footed linemen based on the reports of others.
    When it comes to picking up players to help the offense the Jets have swung and missed. If the Jets don't pick up an OL in the first two rounds than it is obvious that management has to go for being idiots. I hope for Warmack or Matthews. We need to save the QB. Tom Brady could not succeed with our oline. Players have regressed and only Mangold has held his own in the oline.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonkertons View Post
    Seems a bit harsh. Not sure how it can be unrealistic AND make the team worse. Thanks for the detailed response though.
    It's unrealistic is that your collection of moves is totally impossible under the current NFL cap rules and projected salary figures and cap limits.

    It's unrealistic in that your trade scanarios are not supportable with facts and expected offers for those players.

    And it makes us worse in that it removes talent, and replaces it with less talent. It trades away some of our best and replaces them with lesser players. It weakens our Defense via talent-loss and scheme change to a system we're not suited currently to run, and does not improve our offense in any material way (David Carr and Mark Sanchez? Seriously?)

    I appreciate your efforts in writing it, but I strongly disagree with most of it. Agree to disagree.

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