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Thread: Ian O'Connor: Rex Ryan should have gotten the boot too...

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Rex has had 4 years to learn from his mistakes. He has not. He has grown at the same rate Sanchez has. He went into a game this year with one healthy QB. He has had proof of his DC leaking to the press for over a year and not only brings him back he also offers him an extension.

    The team is consistently unprepared. He has shown no willingness to get involved in the offense. He allowed his team to come out flat in Pitt AFCCG after allowing the NE victory to be their SB.

    He's not a HC. He's not a CEO. He is a DC. His heart is in being a DC. That is where his passion is. He is not the first coach with this problem.

    And this team is not turning things around next year. Barring a miracle where we find a QB. He is coaching for his job with no way of getting better. The cap situation and roster are awful. The media will be relentless. The Giants will be better. And Woody will pull the plug. It is what it is.


    It's so funny watching the young fans make such a hard stance on the doings of the NFL.

    He's had 4 years to learn. Oh yeah? That's it huh? That's all he gets? Because you say so? LOL

    The DC leaks are complete rumors, nobody knows the truth on that, nobody knows what went down. It was rather telling to watch Ray Lucas' response when Manish's name was brought up, it's obvious this guy is a rat, and there are a LOT of people who have a problem with that hack, players, coaches, and even his own peers. It took another weasel in Gary Myers to come to his defense.

    The unpreparedness is a joke, it's just not true. When the team turns over the ball as much as it did this year, and really, the last two, that changes everything, including preparation. Preparation goes out the window when they are forced to change their game plan so often and quickly with self-inflicted wounds due to turnovers.

    There is NO way you or anybody can predict what is going to happen next year. Saying they won't is complete crap. It's certainly possible, but you cannot guarantee that, so why bother? Are there question marks for next year? Yep, quite a bit, but every year is a new year, even for the teams that go through drastic changes. Look no further than the Colts team this year, they had every monumental challenge against them, including losing their coach to cancer, look where they are?

    Pull the plug, and for who? You don't have an answer, just your chest out high and your foot-stomping, and nothing more.
    Last edited by Ray Ray19; 01-01-2013 at 03:15 PM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    The sports media are like sharks with blood in the water they go into a feeding frenzy.. Anyone remember Dick Young's column's that forced Tom Seaver out of NY??
    Yes. But there was a lot of things underlying that story than exists here. Like Donald Grant having hired Dick Young's son-in-law to a pretty nice job in the Mets organization. Young was completely biased. And I believe Young was also a one man crusade basically stroking anything in favor of Mets management and ownership.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    Yes. But there was a lot of things underlying that story than exists here. Like Donald Grant having hired Dick Young's son-in-law to a pretty nice job in the Mets organization. Young was completely biased. And I believe Young was also a one man crusade basically stroking anything in favor of Mets management and ownership.
    As are many writers that were more then fair to the Yankee's,Giants and Rangers over the Mets,Jets and Islanders for years..

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    I think what happened with BB is that he evolved and became more aware of the offensive side of the ball. Brady, obviously, accelerated that process for him.

    As for Ryan, I'm not convinced he would ever be able to do that short of getting a Tom Brady. Even then, I'm not so sure he could do it. I think BB's football IQ is far superior to Ryan's and made that transition easier.

    I believe stubborness is also one of Ryan's bad traits.

    Can Ryan become what BB is? I don't know. I don't think so. But even so, how long are we willing to wait? How long can we afford to wait?

    JMO.
    I think this post is a fine example of what the problems with Rex are.

    With the Jets being stuck in the mud for at least another year, we will probably have to wait that much longer.

    As rumored the GM hire will have a lot to do with Rex future. A GM that will tell him to stfu about players and drafting, and go coach, may just be the best thing for him and the organization.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    For the same reasons the same NY hacks all complained that Ryan wasn't made available to the media yesterday. Kill the Jets, extend the circus mantra and way overplayed agenda, only to realize the team is probably waking up and they realize the media is the enemy, and they need to do all that they can to abide by the rules of the NFL and NOTHING more!

    They are too stupid to realize their own crap can hurt them sometimes.
    The Jets station of all places had the 2 rabid non-jets fans Kay & Lagreca (who should be booted tout suite from the Jets coverage) foaming at the mouth over this grave insult. They later had Brick on and tried to coax some negativity out of him-he wouldnt take the rancid bait

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    As are many writers that were more then fair to the Yankee's,Giants and Rangers over the Mets,Jets and Islanders for years..
    Understood. But you analogized this situation to what Dick Young did 35 years ago and they're completely different. Young was biased for a specific reason. He had a family member in the Mets organization and he was apparently the only writer or media person throwing Tom Seaver under the bus.

  7. #67
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    I'm sitting here shaking my head at all of the folks on the site who have swallowed the garbage being churned out by the NYDN and other sources.

    I'm not going to link to give this hack more hits, but can we turn a critical eye to what stands as the foundation of some of these articles?

    Now Johnson is going to try to make it work by hiring a more skilled personnel man than Tannenbaum to run the football operation and rebuild the Jets, but making him keep Ryan, who all of a sudden appears to be a lame duck. I think, personally, Rex would love to be fired, one NFL source said Monday. He knows its over.
    So let's break this down. The NYDN quotes an "NFL source." What does that mean? Are we talking an assistant scout in Oakland? An accountant in the NFL offices in NYC? A trainer for the Giants? So as news consumers, we're supposed to take the phrase "NFL source" seriously and care? AYFKM?

    And to top it off, this person is offering up his personal thoughts: "Rex would love to be fired." There's not the slightest hint he knows Rex, or has any contact to the organization. How's that different than asking any commentator's opinion? Or any fan's?

    There's no factual basis for this statement -- except for this garbage - "he knows it's over." Is this source a mindreader?

    Maybe this is a person who knows Rex. Maybe it's another GM; or coach. If so, I might take it more seriously, in light of the fact that I'm sure there's a lot of info that passes around at the top levels of NFL leadership. But an "NFL source"? Sorry, NYDN, I'm not buying.

    Rex deserves his share of criticism and there's an argument to be made that he deserves to go, but this kind of trash is no better than TMZ style journalism and yet I read posts here where people take this so seriously. We're seeing the absolute worst kind of journalism -- the kind of stuff that I'd expect from 3rd rate blogs -- infecting the Jets beat.

    You guys want to keep being played? Enjoy.

    I'm done with the NYDN.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    Understood. But you analogized this situation to what Dick Young did 35 years ago and they're completely different. Young was biased for a specific reason. He had a family member in the Mets organization and he was apparently the only writer or media person throwing Tom Seaver under the bus.
    What I was saying is the Media has the power to influence the minds of a lot of fans that aren't playing with a full deck to begin with.. Many decisions on this board are made with pure emotion and no intellect..

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlairThomasFumble View Post
    I'm sitting here shaking my head at all of the folks on the site who have swallowed the garbage being churned out by the NYDN and other sources.

    I'm not going to link to give this hack more hits, but can we turn a critical eye to what stands as the foundation of some of these articles?



    So let's break this down. The NYDN quotes an "NFL source." What does that mean? Are we talking an assistant scout in Oakland? An accountant in the NFL offices in NYC? A trainer for the Giants? So as news consumers, we're supposed to take the phrase "NFL source" seriously and care? AYFKM?

    And to top it off, this person is offering up his personal thoughts: "Rex would love to be fired." There's not the slightest hint he knows Rex, or has any contact to the organization. How's that different than asking any commentator's opinion? Or any fan's?

    There's no factual basis for this statement -- except for this garbage - "he knows it's over." Is this source a mindreader?

    Maybe this is a person who knows Rex. Maybe it's another GM; or coach. If so, I might take it more seriously, in light of the fact that I'm sure there's a lot of info that passes around at the top levels of NFL leadership. But an "NFL source"? Sorry, NYDN, I'm not buying.

    Rex deserves his share of criticism and there's an argument to be made that he deserves to go, but this kind of trash is no better than TMZ style journalism and yet I read posts here where people take this so seriously. We're seeing the absolute worst kind of journalism -- the kind of stuff that I'd expect from 3rd rate blogs -- infecting the Jets beat.

    You guys want to keep being played? Enjoy.

    I'm done with the NYDN.
    Maybe it's Mike Pettine? Would that make it false?

    And it's not just the NYDN.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    What I was saying is the Media has the power to influence the minds of a lot of fans that aren't playing with a full deck to begin with.. Many decisions on this board are made with pure emotion and no intellect..
    Yes but Young was one person. Apparently, everyone else in the media was behind Tom Seaver. Rex' situation appears to be the opposite.

    I can only speak for myself and I can say that my thoughts on this are not fueled by emotion. I've had 4 years to look at and watch Rex Ryan and my conclusion is that he's not head coach material.

    Even if he's surrounded by great personnel and coordinators, I am not confident in his abilities and overall decision-making on game day.

    I like an emotional coach as much as anyone. I love John Tortorella's style. But unlike Rex, Totorella seems to know when to push the right buttons at the right time and how to manage a game.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    Maybe it's Mike Pettine? Would that make it false?

    And it's not just the NYDN.
    Argumentum ad populum...that makes it so...

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    Maybe it's Mike Pettine? Would that make it false?

    And it's not just the NYDN.
    Where's the proof it's Pettine? If it's a coach - why couldn't he call him a coach and not a source?

    Oh I forgot. We need to take the word of Fatcesa - a guy who'd crow for weeks if Rex got fired. A guy who waged a jihad against the Jets for years.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlairThomasFumble View Post
    Where's the proof it's Pettine? If it's a coach - why couldn't he call him a coach and not a source?

    Oh I forgot. We need to take the word of Fatcesa - a guy who'd crow for weeks if Rex got fired. A guy who waged a jihad against the Jets for years.
    Except when his Butt Buddy Tuna was with the Jets..

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlairThomasFumble View Post
    Where's the proof it's Pettine? If it's a coach - why couldn't he call him a coach and not a source?

    Oh I forgot. We need to take the word of Fatcesa - a guy who'd crow for weeks if Rex got fired. A guy who waged a jihad against the Jets for years.
    They have been monitoring Pettine's phone calls since last year. Something is going on with him.

    Say what you want about Fatty but he would not stick his neck out like this. And not one member of the Jets or the press has refuted it. Mehta was asked point blank on SNY and he didn't refute it.

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    these talking heads all claim to know what was gin on at the jets. fact is they have no clue and are grasping. is it logical to assume that rex had some control over the players that tannenbaum brought in? yes. is it also logical that mangini had some control of the players that tannenbaum brought in? again a yes. how about choosing olmes over edwards? but the devil is in the degree of control. did mangini buy into the whole favre thing? ow about gholston? rex is on record about sanchez but what about brunnel as back up? who was the guy that forced pete kendall into the rookie barracks at camp during mangini's second year? and was sparano the choice before or after tebow mania? rex does deserve some responsibility but it's hard to separate the on field coaching ability with whatever goes on in the back room.

    here's to hoping rex can do the coaching. imo the next gm will learn very quickly it's woody's team. if he has any trepidations about working with rex he shouldn't take the job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    Rex Ryan should have been fired, too, as he is no less responsible for the state of the New York Jets than is his former business partner, Mike Tannenbaum, the general manager thrown to the baying wolves by an owner who had no choice.

    Woody Johnson needed a new overlord of personnel after his team fielded an offense so bereft of talent and imagination it appeared lifted from a grainy, eight-millimeter game film out of the black-and-white '30s. Too many mistakes in the draft room and the monumental one in the Tim Tebow trade left Tannenbaum on the wrong side of Johnson's desk Monday morning, when the guy doing all the roster trimming since 2006 was the one asked to turn in his playbook.

    If you saw the "Hard Knocks" scenes of Tannenbaum cutting loose those poor souls trying to make his team, you might think he had this coming to him. If you recall how Tannenbaum carried out Johnson's orders and fired his BFF, Eric Mangini, despite a 9-7 record and two winning seasons in three attempts, you might think what goes around finally came around.



    Fine. It's a win-or-else business, and after two consecutive trips to the AFC championship game, Tannenbaum's Jets delivered two consecutive collapses that would've put the Mets to shame.


    But guess what? These are Ryan's Jets as much as they are Tannenbaum's Jets. In fact, a neutral observer could argue the gross mismanagement of the 2012 team had a little more to do with coaching than anything else.

    So Ryan got better than he deserved from his boss, who released a statement saying that the consulting firm of Korn/Ferry International will help him find Tannenbaum's replacement, and that Ryan deserves to remain the head coach because "he has the passion, the talent, and the drive to successfully lead our team."

    On what planet, Woody? And in what league?

    Whether it's being ultra-late to discover a player's injury, or being oblivious to the fact an insubordinate star was benched by an assistant (see the Santonio and Schotty show, Miami, Week 17, 2011 season), Ryan is forever the last to know what's happening with his team. On arrival in Florham Park, N.J., four years ago, Rex said he burned to become a better head coach than his father, Buddy, architect of the defense that defined the '85 Chicago Bears.

    But like his old man, Ryan was born to be a coordinator, and a great one. Just not the ultimate game-day leader of a franchise. Go ahead and name the last head coach in a major team spot that won a championship, or multiple championships, with a persona as outsized and an approach as loud and wildly inconsistent as Rex's.

    The big winners -- the Bill Belichicks and Tom Coughlins and Joe Torres -- almost always have a steadiness running through the core of their programs, with tweaks applied here and there. Ryan has been all over the place the last two years, and it's no coincidence his team has followed suit. If it used to be a compliment when people said the Jets had taken on their coach's personality, it's a compliment no more.

    Ryan's program is out of control, and Tannenbaum is hardly the only one to blame for that. Ryan has been a big voice in the drafting and acquiring of talent, or non-talent. Rex was neck-deep in the night moves Tannenbaum made to land Mark Sanchez on the eve of the 2009 draft, and he was right in there with the hiring of Tony Sparano, too.

    Widely hailed (especially by himself) as the man everyone wants to play for, Ryan watched the Jets quit on him over the final three weeks of 2011, and again over the final three weeks of 2012. If the players truly wanted to spare their beloved coach from Tannenbaum's fate, they sure had the funniest way of showing it.

    The Jets closed the season by losing to three wretched opponents, and that isn't even the half of it. Ryan has shown no ability for developing quarterbacks, even one (Sanchez) he positively had to have out of college, a singular truth that should've been enough to scare Johnson into sacking him.

    Instead the owner charged an outside search firm not to find the best executive available, but the best executive available willing to keep Ryan employed.

    What a way to run a business. Of course Johnson should've asked Korn/Ferry to identify a highly qualified GM, with no strings attached. And if that highly qualified GM decided he wanted to fire Ryan, or to give him another year, then that's what should've gone down.

    But the Jets are the Jets, meaning their lead Korn/Ferry headhunter, Jed Hughes, has already been limited in his search to executives who can live with a coach who has lost 13 of his last 19 games.

    In his statement Johnson said he dumped Tannenbaum on Monday morning because the Jets "are not where we want to be, and a new general manager will be critical to getting this team back on the right track."

    Only Tannenbaum had winning seasons with Mangini, and winning draft picks in Darrelle Revis, Nick Mangold, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, and David Harris before Ryan walked through the door the way a Wild West sheriff would barrel into a saloon. And though the Tebow deal was panned for the adverse impact it would have on the fragile Sanchez, Tannenbaum did hand Ryan an upgrade at a position of acknowledged weakness -- backup quarterback.

    Tebow might've been a lot of things, but as a playoff-game winner in Denver with an 8-5 overall record last season, he was also a much better football player than his Ice Age predecessor, Mark Brunell. If Ryan and Sparano were better at their jobs, they would've done something with Tebow's athleticism other than bury it under an up-the-gut cloud of dust. If Ryan and Sparano were better at their jobs, Sanchez wouldn't be the severely diminished asset he is today, guaranteed a job next season only because Tannenbaum signed him to a contract extension that never should've been offered.

    But if the quarterback position isn't Ryan's thing, neither is common-sense thinking. The same coach who dressed Tebow with broken ribs nearly got Sanchez maimed in a blowout victory over Jacksonville in 2011, when the quarterback took a nasty, unnecessary hit because Ryan wanted a touchdown pass thrown to the previously ignored Plaxico Burress.

    All in all, the head coach's judgment has been as bad as his team's performance, as bad as Tannenbaum's hires. So even though Woody Johnson gave him a reprieve, Rex Ryan should understand this:

    He didn't deserve one.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    Argumentum ad populum...that makes it so...
    He focused solely on the NYDN. I merely pointed out that it wasn't just the DN. It was everybody.

    By the way, do you have any sources that refute any of what's being reported?

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlairThomasFumble View Post
    Where's the proof it's Pettine? If it's a coach - why couldn't he call him a coach and not a source?

    Oh I forgot. We need to take the word of Fatcesa - a guy who'd crow for weeks if Rex got fired. A guy who waged a jihad against the Jets for years.
    I didn't say it was Pettine. But it could be Pettine. He's been rumored to be behind the comments Mehta referenced.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    He focused solely on the NYDN. I merely pointed out that it wasn't just the DN. It was everybody.

    By the way, do you have any sources that refute any of what's being reported?
    "Everybody?" = I don't see the NY Times doing it.

    Again, the burden of proof is on the reporter to provide some shred of credibility for his claims. Maybe it is Pettine. Or maybe it's an intern for the Panthers. "NFL source" means nothing.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by sameoldjets View Post
    these talking heads all claim to know what was gin on at the jets. fact is they have no clue and are grasping. is it logical to assume that rex had some control over the players that tannenbaum brought in? yes. is it also logical that mangini had some control of the players that tannenbaum brought in? again a yes. how about choosing olmes over edwards? but the devil is in the degree of control. did mangini buy into the whole favre thing? ow about gholston? rex is on record about sanchez but what about brunnel as back up? who was the guy that forced pete kendall into the rookie barracks at camp during mangini's second year? and was sparano the choice before or after tebow mania? rex does deserve some responsibility but it's hard to separate the on field coaching ability with whatever goes on in the back room.

    here's to hoping rex can do the coaching. imo the next gm will learn very quickly it's woody's team. if he has any trepidations about working with rex he shouldn't take the job.
    By the same token, how do YOU know this?

    Can you or someone point me to a reference that denies or refutes these claims and proves otherwise?

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlairThomasFumble View Post
    "Everybody?" = I don't see the NY Times doing it.

    Again, the burden of proof is on the reporter to provide some shred of credibility for his claims. Maybe it is Pettine. Or maybe it's an intern for the Panthers. "NFL source" means nothing.
    LOL. When's the last time the NY Times was relevant in the world of sports?

    The NY Times hasn't refuted anything either.

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