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Thread: Mel Kiper Jr. All-Rookie Team 2012

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob0729 View Post
    It has nothing to do with not getting our way or Jones being excluded from the list. It is pointing out how much of an idiot Kiper is.

    At least we can agree that Coples and Jones aren't on the same level, but if Coples works harder in the offseason he might catch Jones. Coples was a very good situational player down the stretch. Maybe next year, he could be an every down player like Jones is.
    And part of being good is staying healthy, something Chandler has to prove he can do.

    His brothers get hurt, whether it be Bones in MMA or Arthur with Baltimore.

    Chandler also missed quite a few games in his final season with Syracuse. He proves he can stay healthy, he may be something.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choon328 View Post
    Jones did start on the Patriots as well. And all they asked him to do was rush the passer. Coples is lucky if he got half the total snaps that were available on defense and he still had 30 tackles and 5.5 sacks. I'd rather have a guy who can play the run as well as rush the passer.
    Huh?!? Jones played almost every down before he got hurt. So you are telling me they ask him to rush the passer on run downs? Jones was excellent at rushing the passer and setting the edge vs. the run before he was injured. Let's not make it like he was an one trick pony.

    Good to know you would rather have a guy like Chandler Jones than a pure pass rusher.

    As for overall stats, Jones missed two games due to injuries, played 8 snaps his first game back, and his snaps have been limited since he has gotten back. So his number of snaps aren't probably aren't that much more than Coples once Coples actually started to make an impact.

    I am not trashing Coples. Jones had a better rookie year though. You clearly don't know what Jones can do because he played very well vs. the run this year. Both can great players in this league.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob0729 View Post
    It has nothing to do with not getting our way or Jones being excluded from the list. It is pointing out how much of an idiot Kiper is.

    At least we can agree that Coples and Jones aren't on the same level, but if Coples works harder in the offseason he might catch Jones. Coples was a very good situational player down the stretch. Maybe next year, he could be an every down player like Jones is.
    Jones is an outside pass rusher

    Coples is in the trenches

    The fact that The Jets are deep on the DLine and didn't need Coples to start has nothing to do with the fact that our interior lineman put up similar numbers to your edge rusher on a PT basis

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfan1983 View Post
    And part of being good is staying healthy, something Chandler has to prove he can do.

    His brothers get hurt, whether it be Bones in MMA or Arthur with Baltimore.

    Chandler also missed quite a few games in his final season with Syracuse. He proves he can stay healthy, he may be something.
    Injuries can change everything, but Jones played every game in his sophomore and junior year. He did miss 5 games in his senior year. But that doesn't mean he is injury prone.

    His brothers have nothing to do with him though.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonEJet View Post
    Jones is an outside pass rusher

    Coples is in the trenches

    The fact that The Jets are deep on the DLine and didn't need Coples to start has nothing to do with the fact that our interior lineman put up similar numbers to your edge rusher on a PT basis
    Coples went into camp as the anointed starter and was demoted. The Jets wanted him to be a starter right off the bat. He lost that role. Let's not make it like he just never got a chance to start. There were just better players than him.

    Yes, the two play different roles, but it seems that the Jets fans want to compare the two as if they play the same position. Personally, I am stating how they did based on how they compare to others at their perspective roles. But until Coples proves he is an every down player, he isn't in the same class as an every down player who is just as or more impactful when they are on the field.

    BTW, situational players can have better stats than every down players because they are only put on the field in situations where they can succeed. Many situational players actually decline in production when they have to play all or most of the snaps because they get tired or worn out. Don't know if Coples falls into that category, but with his rep of being lazy he could be.

    Jones is not just an outside pass rusher. He is a run defender and drops into coverage at times. Stop trying to minimize him as an one trick pony.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonEJet View Post
    Jones is an outside pass rusher

    Coples is in the trenches

    The fact that The Jets are deep on the DLine and didn't need Coples to start has nothing to do with the fact that our interior lineman put up similar numbers to your edge rusher on a PT basis

    Where do you get that he's an "edge pass rusher"? He's an every down player and lots of times, he's playing 2 gap technique. He's just as strong against the run. He's required to set the edge in the 4 - 3 just like the OLB in the 3 - 4 when playing 2 gap.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CleatMarks View Post
    Where do you get that he's an "edge pass rusher"? He's an every down player and lots of times, he's playing 2 gap technique. He's just as strong against the run. He's required to set the edge in the 4 - 3 just like the OLB in the 3 - 4 when playing 2 gap.
    I guess some people still believe his draft evaluations where people thought he would be a situational pass rusher at least to start his career. But yes, in the two gap you rarely have a pure edge pass rusher even situationally.

  8. #28
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    Wish the Jets would've taken Josh Gordon in the supplemental draft, our receiving corp would look a lot different

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Wish the Jets would've taken Josh Gordon in the supplemental draft, our receiving corp would look a lot different

    I know you guys like Hill at this point but I'd be worried if his hands don't get significantly better this off season. The guy can burn but you can't trust him to catch even well placed balls at this point.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuu faaola View Post
    Forget Coples, Kiper gave the Seahawks a C-.

    All they did was draft an elite pass rusher and a starting QB who led them to the playoffs as a rookie.

    The Seahawks also drafted Bobby Wagner who's been awesome as a MLB. I'd say their draft was an A+.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CleatMarks View Post
    I know you guys like Hill at this point but I'd be worried if his hands don't get significantly better this off season. The guy can burn but you can't trust him to catch even well placed balls at this point.
    It can be fixed easy. His issues aren't so much his hands as much as it is what he does with his body when he catches the ball. 1st thing a good WR coach will tell him is catch the ball then try to make the play. Hill reacts to the play then tries to catch the ball. Sanchez gave up on him way to quick if you ask me. There where a ton of plays he was wide open and Sanchez never even looked at him. Your QB can't play like that. You have to trust your WRs who ever they are. My biggest complaint about Sanchez his 1st 2 years was he never looked at Keller. Then he started looking at Keller and stopped looking at his #1. That is not how it works he has to see the whole field and stop this budy budy act he is playing.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonEJet View Post
    Where oh where is the all-world Chandler Jones on this list

    Pats fans say he;s the bestest

    He was mentioned, as he should have been. It was in the OLB's segment. He's been very impressive in spite of losing some time to an injury.

  13. #33
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    Both Jones and Coples look like the real deal.

    Thats really all you can say at this point. Fans on both sides need to shut up about who is better because at this point you still don't know.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetstream23 View Post
    Burfict. Ugh!

    I wanted him badly on a flyer in the late rounds. We know OLB is a major need and this guy was a risk/reward pick. Could have filled a major need and had a starting OLB with a 6th or 7th rounder.
    Cincinnati has drafted very well they last few years. They are stockpiling some talent.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Wish the Jets would've taken Josh Gordon in the supplemental draft, our receiving corp would look a lot different
    You wanted the Jets to spend their 2013 first round pick on Gordon? Because with the Browns bidding a second rounder, that's what it would have taken.

  16. #36
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    WE all know the Colts tanked the last year's season so they could pick up Andrew Luck.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewYorkSackExchange View Post
    WE all know the Colts tanked the last year's season so they could pick up Andrew Luck.
    Brings up the topic of an NFL lottery system.

    Yes or no?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    It can be fixed easy. His issues aren't so much his hands as much as it is what he does with his body when he catches the ball. 1st thing a good WR coach will tell him is catch the ball then try to make the play. Hill reacts to the play then tries to catch the ball. Sanchez gave up on him way to quick if you ask me. There where a ton of plays he was wide open and Sanchez never even looked at him. Your QB can't play like that. You have to trust your WRs who ever they are. My biggest complaint about Sanchez his 1st 2 years was he never looked at Keller. Then he started looking at Keller and stopped looking at his #1. That is not how it works he has to see the whole field and stop this budy budy act he is playing.

    Next year will tell on Hill. I think if he doesn't make a big jump on catching the ball, he's always going to have problems. IMO

    In terms of Sanchez, I think you hit on the fact that he doesn't do well when he has to go through his progressions. Pressure + taking away his primary receiver spells disaster with Sanchez.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby2 View Post
    Both Jones and Coples look like the real deal.

    Thats really all you can say at this point. Fans on both sides need to shut up about who is better because at this point you still don't know.

    I agree. Jones should have never been mentioned on this thread to congratulate Coples IMO. Unfortunately, for some, praising an accomplishment can't be done without taking an embellished swipe at the Pats.

    Congrats to Coples.

  20. #40
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    Everyone killed the Coples pick even though he was projected to be Top 10 early on. He really did play well as time went on.

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