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Thread: Would the Jets (and Jets Fans) Have Fired Bill Cowher in 1999? Or in 2003?

  1. #1

    Would the Jets (and Jets Fans) Have Fired Bill Cowher in 1999? Or in 2003?

    I think that both Ownership and teh Fans both would havefired or wanted fired Cowher in his two 6-10 seasons before he won it all, yes.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...es/CowhBi0.htm

    Maybe we should soldier through another coupe of years with Ryan, and see.

    We've gone the route of change every four->five years. Is there anything to be said for soldiering through a bad downturn, staying with the same guy, as Pittsburgh did, and see if he rises up to the challenge?

    I don't disagree Rex has flaws, especially his loyalty to his guys....like Sanchez.

    But is it truly impossible that Rex could win, if given a mid-level QB to work with (not, as we have now, the worst QB of the past 4 years), and a quality O-Co?

    If ownership hires a competant General Manager, who along with Rex brings in a truly top-tier O-Co (Norv Turner for example) and a legitimate Mid-Tier QB Candidate, is it possible Rex could be a successful Coach again in New York?

    Maybe perserverence is a solution the Jets haven't yet tried.

    After all, Bill Cowher was a two-time 6-10 Coach after 12 long seasons in Pittsburgh and he wasn't fired. That risk paid off.

    Just tossing it out there.

  2. #2
    YES!! The same fans that want Cowher would have been screaming for his head before he ever won a Super Bowl. I've posted this numerous times.

  3. #3
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    I want Rex gone not because of his record this season. I want him gone because he brought the circus to the Jets. I don't remember anyone laughing at the Steelers do you?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tai-Mai-Shu View Post
    I want Rex gone not because of his record this season. I want him gone because he brought the circus to the Jets. I don't remember anyone laughing at the Steelers do you?
    Yes, and nobody ever laughed at the Jets before Rex became HC right?

    How long have you been a fan?

  5. #5
    good point. but imo cowher is no savior either. can you say kordell stewart? cowher didn't win until he got a qb. and the pitt front office seems to be able to get very talented players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    I think that both Ownership and teh Fans both would havefired or wanted fired Cowher in his two 6-10 seasons before he won it all, yes.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...es/CowhBi0.htm

    Maybe we should soldier through another coupe of years with Ryan, and see.

    We've gone the route of change every four->five years. Is there anything to be said for soldiering through a bad downturn, staying with the same guy, as Pittsburgh did, and see if he rises up to the challenge?

    I don't disagree Rex has flaws, especially his loyalty to his guys....like Sanchez.

    But is it truly impossible that Rex could win, if given a mid-level QB to work with (not, as we have now, the worst QB of the past 4 years), and a quality O-Co?

    If ownership hires a competant General Manager, who along with Rex brings in a truly top-tier O-Co (Norv Turner for example) and a legitimate Mid-Tier QB Candidate, is it possible Rex could be a successful Coach again in New York?

    Maybe perserverence is a solution the Jets haven't yet tried.

    After all, Bill Cowher was a two-time 6-10 Coach after 12 long seasons in Pittsburgh and he wasn't fired. That risk paid off.

    Just tossing it out there.

  6. #6
    Cowher is a Marty ball disciple and was overrated as a coach and always will be....but then again he'd be a breathe of fresh air to what we have now...a lot less nonsense

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tai-Mai-Shu View Post
    I want Rex gone not because of his record this season. I want him gone because he brought the circus to the Jets. I don't remember anyone laughing at the Steelers do you?
    Outside of New York and New York Media Driven emo drama, I don't hear people (normal people, fans) laughing at Rex or the Jets either.

    They say "why the hell you all sign Tebow?". They say "wow, Sanchez really isn't that good". And they've said from day one "Wow, Rex sure is a talker isn't he?"

    But laugh at us? Can't say I hear that much here outside the NY/NJ area.

    I think New Yorkers live in a bubble some times, and don't see their teams as the normal non-New Yorkers might see them. Most of the fans I talk to here in DC liek and respect Rex as a Coach, they think he talks too much (so do I) and they think Mark Sanchez is the worst QB in a long time.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sameoldjets View Post
    good point. but imo cowher is no savior either.
    I don't want Cowher.

    But I agree. "Till he got a QB" is the real key.

    We don't have one.

    I'd like to see Rex and a Rex D with an O led by a competant, veteran, professional O-Co, and at least a 15th ranked type QB.

    My point would be, if Cowher had the worst QB in the NFL in turnovers and other stats in his first four seasons......would have have been given season #5? If he was a jets Coach who had that QB, and went 6-10, would he have survived not once but twice to keep on Coaching for us?

    A different way to look at it. Many will call it "accepting mediocrity" and I can understand that, or they'll say Sanchez is ok it's not his fault, which I don;t understand at all, but maybe, just maybe, patience and perserverence is somethign worth trying.

    After all, we've done the Coach-Go-Round most of our Franchsie history. Maybe buying in for the long haul is an idea we should try?

    Worst case, if Rex does whats expected by some next year, and ****s the bed completely (some calling for a 2 win season if Rex stays), then it's easy and clear, dump him, start over.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt39 View Post
    Cowher is a Marty ball disciple and was overrated as a coach and always will be....but then again he'd be a breathe of fresh air to what we have now...a lot less nonsense
    Coaches will always have up and down seasons unless they have an elite QB.

    But, Cowher's teams did not quit on him, played hard, played smart, and were tough. If you can be consistent, and keep the team, and have them playing hard, you can win.

    Honestly, until the Jets find a real QB, they aren't winning the division for the next 3-4 years, until Brady retires. But if they are tough, and play hard, and fight, and put Brady on his butt and win a few, maybe they can go on a playoff run and do something.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Outside of New York and New York Media Driven emo drama, I don't hear people (normal people, fans) laughing at Rex or the Jets either.

    They say "why the hell you all sign Tebow?". They say "wow, Sanchez really isn't that good". And they've said from day one "Wow, Rex sure is a talker isn't he?"

    But laugh at us? Can't say I hear that much here outside the NY/NJ area.

    I think New Yorkers live in a bubble some times, and don't see their teams as the normal non-New Yorkers might see them. Most of the fans I talk to here in DC liek and respect Rex as a Coach, they think he talks too much (so do I) and they think Mark Sanchez is the worst QB in a long time.
    Over the holidays, I spent some time in Pennsylvania. Walking around in my Jet jacket, I received many unsolicited comments concerning the team. Almost all were directed at Rex and why we would hire such a fool. (I'm being kind. Their words were more pointed and crude.)

    The rest were almost all comments on the Mark Sanchez "butt fumble". In all cases, folks did laugh.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    I think that both Ownership and teh Fans both would havefired or wanted fired Cowher in his two 6-10 seasons before he won it all, yes.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...es/CowhBi0.htm

    Maybe we should soldier through another coupe of years with Ryan, and see.

    We've gone the route of change every four->five years. Is there anything to be said for soldiering through a bad downturn, staying with the same guy, as Pittsburgh did, and see if he rises up to the challenge?

    I don't disagree Rex has flaws, especially his loyalty to his guys....like Sanchez.

    But is it truly impossible that Rex could win, if given a mid-level QB to work with (not, as we have now, the worst QB of the past 4 years), and a quality O-Co?

    If ownership hires a competant General Manager, who along with Rex brings in a truly top-tier O-Co (Norv Turner for example) and a legitimate Mid-Tier QB Candidate, is it possible Rex could be a successful Coach again in New York?

    Maybe perserverence is a solution the Jets haven't yet tried.

    After all, Bill Cowher was a two-time 6-10 Coach after 12 long seasons in Pittsburgh and he wasn't fired. That risk paid off.

    Just tossing it out there.
    We have always heard on this board how great players make those around them better. It could be possible that a great GM would make a coach better. Spend time discussing his shortcomings and making sure he knows he will be held accountable if he does not.

    I think Woody wants to go the Steelers route and stay patient and allow Rex to continue to mature into the roll. However, I think he also realizes that he needs a top notch football guy running the show. Therefore, my guess is he will interview GMs and not choose the one that wants to keep Rex, but rather choose one that is the bets for the job regardless of his stance on Rex. I expect that in the event that Rex is replaced, the team will stick with the next coach for a while outside of a complete debacle. At this point Woody must let the new GM decide how to move forward.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    I don't want Cowher.

    But I agree. "Till he got a QB" is the real key.

    We don't have one.

    I'd like to see Rex and a Rex D with an O led by a competant, veteran, professional O-Co, and at least a 15th ranked type QB.

    My point would be, if Cowher had the worst QB in the NFL in turnovers and other stats in his first four seasons......would have have been given season #5? If he was a jets Coach who had that QB, and went 6-10, would he have survived not once but twice to keep on Coaching for us?

    A different way to look at it. Many will call it "accepting mediocrity" and I can understand that, or they'll say Sanchez is ok it's not his fault, which I don;t understand at all, but maybe, just maybe, patience and perserverence is somethign worth trying.

    After all, we've done the Coach-Go-Round most of our Franchsie history. Maybe buying in for the long haul is an idea we should try?

    Worst case, if Rex does whats expected by some next year, and ****s the bed completely (some calling for a 2 win season if Rex stays), then it's easy and clear, dump him, start over.

    A franchise QB covers up for a lot of problems... It is incredible what the arrival of Jim Kelly did for the Bills, look at KC once they got Montana, and obviously the Pats with Brady to name a few. While I prefer not to have Cowher, he did go to a Super Bowl with Neil O'Donnell. However, that was with one of the best front offices in the NFL picking the players. Cowher has coach I could live with, Cowher with total control is fraught with peril....

  13. #13
    MAYBE after '99, but definitely not after '03.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Conkboy View Post
    I think Woody wants to go the Steelers route and stay patient and allow Rex to continue to mature into the roll. However, I think he also realizes that he needs a top notch football guy running the show. Therefore, my guess is he will interview GMs and not choose the one that wants to keep Rex, but rather choose one that is the bets for the job regardless of his stance on Rex. I expect that in the event that Rex is replaced, the team will stick with the next coach for a while outside of a complete debacle. At this point Woody must let the new GM decide how to move forward.
    I agree. I'm only for keeping Rex is the new GM wants to keep Rex, without pressure to do so.

    The problem is, we start over, new Coach has foibles too (remember Mangini and "it's a process" and his lolbad Bellichek impressions? Or Herm and his BBQ? Fans will always laugh at and find things to hate our Coaches for, legit or not) and in four years, if we have one down year, Fans will do exactly what they're doing now, demand the GM and Coach be fired, and we try something else.

    Hell, in the past I was a loud voice amongst them. I wanted Mangini fired big time, and still say that was the right choice.

    I just wonder if playing a Steelers-style long game may be worth trying for once, and if Rex with a decent QB might be worth giving a shot to. 4 years in a row we have Top 10 Defenses, and this year while clearly down hard with young linemen, injuries, Revis gone and slow old Linebackers, it was still our best unit by far. Afew less pick 6's, fumbles and INT's, and instead a few more completed drives or Field Goals and we're having a whole other conversation.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    I agree. I'm only for keeping Rex is the new GM wants to keep Rex, without pressure to do so.

    The problem is, we start over, new Coach has foibles too (remember Mangini and "it's a process" and his lolbad Bellichek impressions? Or Herm and his BBQ? Fans will always laugh at and find things to hate our Coaches for, legit or not) and in four years, if we have one down year, Fans will do exactly what they're doing now, demand the GM and Coach be fired, and we try something else.

    Hell, in the past I was a loud voice amongst them. I wanted Mangini fired big time, and still say that was the right choice.

    I just wonder if playing a Steelers-style long game may be worth trying for once, and if Rex with a decent QB might be worth giving a shot to. 4 years in a row we have Top 10 Defenses, and this year while clearly down hard with young linemen, injuries, Revis gone and slow old Linebackers, it was still our best unit by far. Afew less pick 6's, fumbles and INT's, and instead a few more completed drives or Field Goals and we're having a whole other conversation.
    I agree with the patience part as long as you completely commit to Rex... Therein lies the problem. You don't want a coach to "coach" for his life this year. It will wreak of him trying to sign FAs and taking risks in the draft to have a successful season. The GM, coach for 2013 and owner need to sit down and discuss the following:

    Here are our problems...
    This is our path to fixing them...
    It will take us x years to get there barring us catching lightening in a bottle at the QB position.

    I don't think any GM or Woody for that matter would be willing to give Rex that kind of commitment verbally or financially. It almost requires a 1yr extension on his current deal to make it work. Now if Woody has no problems throwing away several million more, than so be it but I just don't see it happening.
    Luckily we will all find out soon enough... Play armchair Owner/GM... get emotional, yell at each other and rant and rave into another season of Jets football!
    Last edited by Conkboy; 01-02-2013 at 07:01 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    I think that both Ownership and teh Fans both would havefired or wanted fired Cowher in his two 6-10 seasons before he won it all, yes.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...es/CowhBi0.htm

    Maybe we should soldier through another coupe of years with Ryan, and see.

    We've gone the route of change every four->five years. Is there anything to be said for soldiering through a bad downturn, staying with the same guy, as Pittsburgh did, and see if he rises up to the challenge?

    I don't disagree Rex has flaws, especially his loyalty to his guys....like Sanchez.

    But is it truly impossible that Rex could win, if given a mid-level QB to work with (not, as we have now, the worst QB of the past 4 years), and a quality O-Co?

    If ownership hires a competant General Manager, who along with Rex brings in a truly top-tier O-Co (Norv Turner for example) and a legitimate Mid-Tier QB Candidate, is it possible Rex could be a successful Coach again in New York?

    Maybe perserverence is a solution the Jets haven't yet tried.

    After all, Bill Cowher was a two-time 6-10 Coach after 12 long seasons in Pittsburgh and he wasn't fired. That risk paid off.

    Just tossing it out there.
    This.

  17. #17
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    Last year everyone was calling for Coughlin's head early in the season then he went on to win the SB. Everyone being fans and media. And the same people were trashing Eli halfway through the season that he went on to win his first SB. So it really doesn't matter what people say or think.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JetsFanatic View Post
    YES!! The same fans that want Cowher would have been screaming for his head before he ever won a Super Bowl. I've posted this numerous times.

    Nope. 100% wrong. I have been a Jets fan for 30+ years and in all that time we have had one legitimately good head coach: Parcells. OK, maybe Walt Michaels but I was too young to really say for sure. Anyway, give the fan base someone who is obviously competent and we will stick with him. You can't compare what happened to buffoons like Coslet, Kotite, et al with someone like Cowher. Hell, Parcells botched the backup QB situation badly in '99 - no one wanted him to leave. If you can recognize someone knows what he is doing, you can be patient. When it is obvious someone is incompetent - as has been the case with 99% of the Jet head coaches in my lifetime - you want them out as fast as possible.

    If only Woody were smart enough to give Cowher a blank check. Unfortunately we all know better.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tai-Mai-Shu View Post
    I want Rex gone not because of his record this season. I want him gone because he brought the circus to the Jets. I don't remember anyone laughing at the Steelers do you?
    The media has brainwashed you!

    Snap out of it!

  20. #20
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    Without a doubt the majority of jets fans would want him fired at that time. This same group secretly love the headlines that are created with constant turnover.

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