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Thread: What single move started the downfall of this team?

  1. #61
    Santonio Holmes has had "one" 1000 yd season in 2009 for Pittsburgh and after that season they let him go for a 5th rounder.

    After a partial season with us we sign him to a $50M contract with a $24M sign on bonus. We went to the AFCG without him, did we really need spend that money on one position. The next year Rex names him team captain, he has 654 yards on the season and has a meltdown in the huddle and he is pulled from the game.

    This season he is injured after 274 yards and is done for the season, the rest of the team is full of holes left behind by solid players that we never replaced.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    No, I disagree.

    It's easily, in hindsight, to say that was a mistake, but the singular mistake, the biggest mistake this franchise arguably made in decades was entrusting the development of the team's most valuable asset to Schitty and Cavanaugh.

    It is not hyperbole to say that Sanchez was the Jets most important draft pick since Joe Namath. Sanchez was coachable coming out of USC. He wasn't a lazy ahole or injury prone, which is the qualities that usually undermine high 1st round QBs.

    Sanchez had his warts, but all 1st round QBs do. The Jets job was to develop his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. The best course wouldve been to sign a placeholder veteran in 2009 and let Sanchez sit. Of course, being coached by a bona fide offensive coaching staff, rather than the abomination the Jets had in place.

    The Jets committed professional malpractice in developing Sanchez. Not only did they have the wrong staff to develop him, they put him in a situation where he couldn't learn.

    A popular argument here is that Sanchez had a great situation 2009 with a veteran team, strong D, and strong running game. The WR group was weak, but improved with Braylon acquisition. But in actuality this was a bad situation for a rookie QB with 16 collegiate starts. You can't tell a rookie QB "Don't screw up and we'll win it for you." The QB can't learn that way. He'll be too focused on trying to avoid mistakes rather than make them and learn from them.

    Then we had the musical chairs at WR, the receiving corps changing every year and Sanchez couldn't gain the proper comfort level.

    Sanchez sucks and and is ruined right now, but it didnt have to be that way. Say he sucked from the beginning all you want, but I strongly believe that any first round QB that is coachable and not injury prone can be developed into, at least, a solid starter under the proper coaching.

    SMC, they tried to develop him. Shotty was a QB friendly coach and we heard how he was getting special attention from Schotty. They brought in an old backup QB to work with with him also. And early on Rex and Shotty had a number system for risk management for him. He wasn't allowed to do any risky passes until he passed mid field etc.

    I think the hits from RT's revolving door started his downfall. JMO

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetsfan95 View Post
    Chasing after Nnamdi during 2011 free agency after the lockout. We already had a more than capable #2 corner in Cro willing to come back to NY (as seen by his re-signing) and by wasting time we lost key players like B. Smith, Braylon, Cotchery, T-Rich, and Ellis. The three WRs could have continued to build their chemistry with Sanchez, who probably emerges as a better QB with receivers he trusts. Now look at what he is.
    More than just the Nnamdi chase - to me it was the entire offseason after the lockout. The Jets lost a lot of talent and leadership that offseason that was never adequately replaced. O Line had no depth, thinking hunter could replace Woody, the Holmes contract, no WR depth. I think the 2011 offseason is where the downward spiral began.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Gastineau99 View Post
    Chasing Nnamdi had nothing to do with us losing Cotchery, Braylon, T-Rich and Ellis.

    Not entirely but it played a part because the Jets were doing a WAITING GAME that left no time to re-negotiate with other players(ie Braylon coming back with a more reasonable contract request) because the Offseason was basically over by the time Aso chose to take his overrated-skills to Philly.

    T-Rich we lost because he RETIRED. Duh.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    No, I disagree.

    It's easily, in hindsight, to say that was a mistake, but the singular mistake, the biggest mistake this franchise arguably made in decades was entrusting the development of the team's most valuable asset to Schitty and Cavanaugh.

    It is not hyperbole to say that Sanchez was the Jets most important draft pick since Joe Namath. Sanchez was coachable coming out of USC. He wasn't a lazy ahole or injury prone, which is the qualities that usually undermine high 1st round QBs.

    Sanchez had his warts, but all 1st round QBs do. The Jets job was to develop his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. The best course wouldve been to sign a placeholder veteran in 2009 and let Sanchez sit. Of course, being coached by a bona fide offensive coaching staff, rather than the abomination the Jets had in place.

    The Jets committed professional malpractice in developing Sanchez. Not only did they have the wrong staff to develop him, they put him in a situation where he couldn't learn.

    A popular argument here is that Sanchez had a great situation 2009 with a veteran team, strong D, and strong running game. The WR group was weak, but improved with Braylon acquisition. But in actuality this was a bad situation for a rookie QB with 16 collegiate starts. You can't tell a rookie QB "Don't screw up and we'll win it for you." The QB can't learn that way. He'll be too focused on trying to avoid mistakes rather than make them and learn from them.

    Then we had the musical chairs at WR, the receiving corps changing every year and Sanchez couldn't gain the proper comfort level.

    Sanchez sucks and and is ruined right now, but it didnt have to be that way. Say he sucked from the beginning all you want, but I strongly believe that any first round QB that is coachable and not injury prone can be developed into, at least, a solid starter under the proper coaching.
    Excellent analysis.

    Sanchez did himself no favors by not being mentally tougher. I truly believe that he would not be an overly accurate QB or great at reading defenses, wherever he went. Not to be mean, by I don't sense that he is the most intelligent person in the huddle.

    But he did have talent to work with; a good enough arm, excellent athletic ability and a flair for the dramatic. Unfortunately the Jets failed him, as you pointed out.

    The "brain trust" should not have babied and coddled him. They should have read his personality and put pressure on him to earn his starts. And while they are doing that the team needed to hire a real QB coach-and a veteran offensive coordinator, who could tailor the offense to his strengths, build his confidence and mechanics. Then allow him to make mistakes in games instead of paralyzing him with the fear of....making a turnover

    None of that was done; Ryan instead brought in his good friend along as the QB coach. Cavenaugh should be out of the job for his role in destroying Sanchez yet Rex stubbornly keeps him in the position.
    Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 01-05-2013 at 09:55 AM.

  6. #66
    For those who say trading up to draft Sanchez, I would offer: Never having an appropriate succession plan for replacing Pennington when we knew we would not be paying him his $3M roster bonus the following year.

    Instead we go out and sign Brett Favre for $13M a previously retired QB who had a history of imploding in critical situations. To compound the issue we don't draft a viable starting QB in the draft (e.g. Flacco went 18th that year).

    The following year upon Favre's retirement the cupboard is again bare and we are forced to trade up giving up picks and players to get Sanchez.

    So here we are in 2013 and again we have no succession plan for Sanchez, and no depth due to only 3 picks the year we drafted Sanchez.
    Last edited by Long Suffering Jets Fan; 01-05-2013 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Typo

  7. #67
    It's not a single move. It is a single factor. Rex's inability to identify, hire, and develop young coaching talent. It's been 4 years. Are their any coaches he has hired that were any good other than Karl Dunbar who was already a great D line coach before he was hired. Plus, Rex keeps incompetent coaches way past their expiration date. See schotty and cavanaugh. The problem is masked on D where Rex is the defacto D coordinator but he relies on Sutton ( a holdover from previous jet staffs) and Thurmon (brought over from Baltimore).

    This, IMO, will be the main reason Rex is eventually fired. Coaches who can't groom young assistants have a short shelf life.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Minkaveli View Post
    Let's rewind back to January 2011. We were on our way to making a playoff push and the confidence in this team was at an all time high. Only two years removed from that we are the laughing stock of the league and we are all embarrassed about this team on and off the field.

    The question I ask is after building a team to compete, what single move started the downfall that led us to the debacle we are witnessing today?
    Not resigning Braylon Edwards.

  9. #69
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    Thinking ground and pound can still win in this league..

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
    Signing Santonio Holmes .... This stared the circus act. Shoulda kept Cotch and Bray.

    There is a real argument to made that we should have kept Mangini as well .... He gave Rex a lot to work with.
    Was Santonio complaining about getting open and not getting the ball ? I think he was. Is that on Sanchez or Holmes?

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by jets80 View Post
    Thinking ground and pound can still win in this league..
    Especially since we had no pound on the roster.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMJK View Post
    SMC, they tried to develop him. Shotty was a QB friendly coach and we heard how he was getting special attention from Schotty. They brought in an old backup QB to work with with him also. And early on Rex and Shotty had a number system for risk management for him. He wasn't allowed to do any risky passes until he passed mid field etc.

    I think the hits from RT's revolving door started his downfall. JMO
    The problem was that Rex had absolutely no clue about offense or any interest in it when he became HC, so when Tanny wanted to keep Schitty as OC, Rex had no problem with it because he didn't care.

    And the only reason Schitty got a job in the NFL was because of his name. He was QB coach in SD due to nepotism and did a crappy job with the Jets. The best his offense ever was when Favre decided to scrap it and do his own thing.

    Schitty really has no history developing anyone on the pro level. Yes, he was Brees QB coach, but Brees became good once Schitty left.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    The problem was that Rex had absolutely no clue about offense or any interest in it when he became HC, so when Tanny wanted to keep Schitty as OC, Rex had no problem with it because he didn't care.

    And the only reason Schitty got a job in the NFL was because of his name. He was QB coach in SD due to nepotism and did a crappy job with the Jets. The best his offense ever was when Favre decided to scrap it and do his own thing.

    Schitty really has no history developing anyone on the pro level. Yes, he was Brees QB coach, but Brees became good once Schitty left.
    So how did we do without Schitty vs. with him?

  14. #74
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    The problem is our strategy of signing and drafting players.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo7 View Post
    The single move that started the downfall of this team was signing Brett Favre.

    This completely changed the teams philosophy from building with high character, hard working, team first young players through the draft and UDFA to building with high profile, older, selfish players through trades and free agency.

    It also lead to replacing a disciplined coach who was high on being prepared, kept his players focused and held them accountable for their mistakes to a players coach who was great at motivating but didnt always have his team prepared and allowed the inmates to run the assylum
    Bingo. We have a winner. This is the moment it all started to go downhill.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    It's not a single move. It is a single factor. Rex's inability to identify, hire, and develop young coaching talent. It's been 4 years. Are their any coaches he has hired that were any good other than Karl Dunbar who was already a great D line coach before he was hired. Plus, Rex keeps incompetent coaches way past their expiration date. See schotty and cavanaugh. The problem is masked on D where Rex is the defacto D coordinator but he relies on Sutton ( a holdover from previous jet staffs) and Thurmon (brought over from Baltimore).

    This, IMO, will be the main reason Rex is eventually fired. Coaches who can't groom young assistants have a short shelf life.
    Excellent post. May I add to your argument the many horrible personnel decisions which have stripped this team of talent over the last few years. Also, the immediate success of the first two years gave the Jets the misguided confidence that they were an "elite" team, and probably stopped them from really looking at the team with a critical eye.
    One other point.....if you go back and watch the way Sanchez played in the playoff games vs New England and Pittsburgh , and the first game the next season vs Dallas, you would have felt that we had a qb, finally. What has happened since then? Who knows, but since he is still under contract, I hope the new GM will finally get a coach who can work with Sanchez. Basically, break him down to the ground floor, and see what happens. I remember a pretty good starting pitcher that went back down to A ball years ago to learn how to pitch again, and has had a decent career since then. His name is Roy Halladay. I'm not suggesting that lightening will strike twice, but the Jets owe it to themselves to try everything before they give up on this kid.
    Last edited by section314; 01-05-2013 at 10:23 AM. Reason: mis-spelled word

  17. #77
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    Trading away countless draft picks for veteran players and to trade up in drafts.

  18. #78

    Talking PIECE BY PIECE- JETS WENT INTO DECLINE

    Quote Originally Posted by jetstream23 View Post
    A combination of 3 things all centered around the running game - Not effectively replacing Damien Woody and Tony Richardson while elevating Shonn Greene (not a capable starter) into the starting RB role occupied by Thomas Jones and LT in 2009 and 2010. In other words, trying to get by on the cheap....which we've continued to do on offense.
    =Excellent. Thats certainly a large part of it. Personnel decisions in general are to blame.... we seem to get rid of capable players and their replacements have been proven to be below par. Brad Smith, Cotchery, Dwight Lowery,....... now maybe some of this was driven by Contracts and FA opportunities for players to go elseware, like Brad Smith--- but the choice of certain players like 37 year old Derrick Mason, a hapless Wayne Hunter ( who nearly gets Sanchez planted in the turf), picking a mediocre fullback in the 5th round... Blaming Schotty and getting a much worse replacement. etc. you guys know the rest.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    Trading up and drafting Sanchez. End of story.
    There you go, no matter how you paint it, the wrong QB is going to kill a team. Also don't try to blame coaches other players, hoes, or NY night life. That has been the problem from day one, babying this kid and never making him grow up. Other young QB's drafted the same year as Mark and after have improved head and shoulders above this kid. He was not ready emotionally for the next level and that triples when you talk about coming to NY team.
    Last edited by fltflo; 01-05-2013 at 10:37 AM.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlichtie View Post
    The misguided belief that Santonio Holmes was a no 1 and worthy of that mega contract.The acquiring of Holmes for a 5th round pick was genius but the smart,pragmatic move was to let him hit the market in 2011 (remember he was a restricted FA at he top of his value curve) and turn that 5th rounder into a probable 1st and 3rd or even 2nd and 4th.Then draft a young replacement WR high and prioritise Braylon.Not the sole reason for our demise but a pretty key part of it.

    Why do you think the the steelers were only able to get a later round pick for holmes the year before when he had 79 rec for 1,250 yards and making 1mill dollars, but one year later after putting up 2/3rd of those numbers the jets were in position to trade him for a probable #1 when he was in line to get 6-7mill per season. I am waiting to hear this. And how is he at the top of his curve after taking such a drop in producition from the year before.

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