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Thread: Honestly - why would you bring in a new coach for 2013?

  1. #21
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    A top 15-20 qb easily gets the Jets to 10-11 wins in 2011 and 9 wins this year...
    and in the playoffs.

    Sanchez threw 7 Tds - 6 ints (58%) in wins this year and 6 Tds - 12 ints (52%) in losses.

    Swap those Ints for TDs and get a qb who can complete 60% of his passes and this team will be fine...

    With a healthy Revis, emerging Wilkerson+Coples, Cromartie, Harris (who Played on a bad ankle all year), resign Landry, and get a few more pieces to improve the overall speed on defense...

    This team has the potential to be the best defense in the league.

    The future with Rex as head coach is not nearly as dim as people here think.

  2. #22
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    To stop the circus atmosphere and start rebuilding now as opposed to in 2014?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    what a dumb ass question.

    honestly, would you consider bringing in a new QB for 2013?

    The answer is exactly the same to both questions. Yes, if you want to win more football games both now and long-term. Both men have failed in their duties here.
    How in the world do you expect the 2013 Jets to attract a good candidate? Seriously. Take 10 seconds to consider that question.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    I know there's cases to be made - especially if you're in the camp that believes that Rex does more harm than good to this team (and forgetting the two AFCCGs)

    ...but really. What kind of situation does the NY Jets pose for a new coach? No cap room, half the roster on the way out, a fcked QB situation, little depth...

    How exactly does that sound like something to attract a talented coaching staff? Its horrible.


    I'm in the camp that believes we wouldn't possible land a credible candidate anyway. Better to let Rex play out 2013 - knowing he's on fringe - and see if can't make this trainwreck competitive. If he doesn't - appealing situation for 2014 candidates. If he does - that says something.



    if you hire from within for the other coaching positions you can probably get away with a clean sweep next season if it came to that.

    2014 would make the Jets much more attractive. No more Sanchez contract, probably a top five pick in a draft that appears to have some real impact players in it, if you were a new coach, at worst you may have to settle with whoever the Offensive-C is, if they go out of house and bring in a big name talent.

    2013 is going to be the winter, 2014 should be the spring.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    I know there's cases to be made - especially if you're in the camp that believes that Rex does more harm than good to this team (and forgetting the two AFCCGs)

    ...but really. What kind of situation does the NY Jets pose for a new coach? No cap room, half the roster on the way out, a fcked QB situation, little depth...

    How exactly does that sound like something to attract a talented coaching staff? Its horrible.


    I'm in the camp that believes we wouldn't possible land a credible candidate anyway. Better to let Rex play out 2013 - knowing he's on fringe - and see if can't make this trainwreck competitive. If he doesn't - appealing situation for 2014 candidates. If he does - that says something.

    All well and good. Let the GM make that decision, not Woody.

  6. #26
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    I guess the biggest question to ask is which is more important, the GM or the HC.

    I think this is a dynamic question and one that differs throughout the NFL.

    If you are a successful HC that has had SUSTAINED success, then the HC is more important.

    If you have a young (experience wise) HC, then you need a good GM to build a talented team to give said HC the opportu it's to get better.

    This is where the biggest divide is on this site and with the media.

    Woody thinks Rex is the great HC that supersedes the need to have a great GM.

    Everyone else with the exception of a small minority of fans, think Rex has regressed. Rex has ignored problematic areas of HIS team.

    Problem is that the NFL community doesn't think highly of Rex or we would have GM candidates fighting for this job.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LockeJET View Post
    So you're basically saying that Rex is only here for 1 year because we know we will be bad next year.. Tougher schedule, no QB, only 10 starters back, etc... I agree with you, so let's say this comes true.
    I don't get why people are taking this position.

    Not that we will be bad next year - we will - but that on a team with a crap roster, the proper way to evaluate a coach is by wins and losses.

    It's not.

    Now, I know people will point to the roster and say "well, that's Rex's fault, too! He had input!". Well, yeah. So what have we learned?

    We've learned that Rex isn't a GM. He should have some input on player selection, as any coach should, but he really lacks the skill set to identify the correct players to draft or to really understand all that goes into roster building.

    But why should that surprise us? The man is a coach, not a front office guy. And before anyone says "a good coach should know . . ." - if you really believe that, why don't you suggest some coaches the Jets ought to interview for the GM spot?

    For all the famous rhetoric about letting the cook buy the groceries, people don't seem to realize that folks like Parcells, Belichik, and Holmgren - coaches who can also serve as GMs, and do it effectively (though lets not discuss Parcells' drafts) - are the exception, not the rule, and they get to be those exceptions after spending years in the HC chair, learning about roster management from the field end in ways equivalent to coming up through scouting and the front office. It's not something anyone should be expecting Rex, or any HC with less than a decade of experience, to be good at.

    So in terms of evaluating Rex as a head coach next year, put away the complaints about how he impacted the roster, and just ask yourself "what would I expect a good coach to do with this team? How about a great one?" Identify reasonable expectations, then determine if Rex met them, exceeded them, or fell short of them.

    And, unfortunately, "make the playoffs" or even "win 8 games" is not a reasonable expectation for this team as it will likely look in 2013.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    I don't get why people are taking this position.

    Not that we will be bad next year - we will - but that on a team with a crap roster, the proper way to evaluate a coach is by wins and losses.

    It's not.

    Now, I know people will point to the roster and say "well, that's Rex's fault, too! He had input!". Well, yeah. So what have we learned?

    We've learned that Rex isn't a GM. He should have some input on player selection, as any coach should, but he really lacks the skill set to identify the correct players to draft or to really understand all that goes into roster building.

    But why should that surprise us? The man is a coach, not a front office guy. And before anyone says "a good coach should know . . ." - if you really believe that, why don't you suggest some coaches the Jets ought to interview for the GM spot?

    For all the famous rhetoric about letting the cook buy the groceries, people don't seem to realize that folks like Parcells, Belichik, and Holmgren - coaches who can also serve as GMs, and do it effectively (though lets not discuss Parcells' drafts) - are the exception, not the rule, and they get to be those exceptions after spending years in the HC chair, learning about roster management from the field end in ways equivalent to coming up through scouting and the front office. It's not something anyone should be expecting Rex, or any HC with less than a decade of experience, to be good at.

    So in terms of evaluating Rex as a head coach next year, put away the complaints about how he impacted the roster, and just ask yourself "what would I expect a good coach to do with this team? How about a great one?" Identify reasonable expectations, then determine if Rex met them, exceeded them, or fell short of them.

    And, unfortunately, "make the playoffs" or even "win 8 games" is not a reasonable expectation for this team as it will likely look in 2013.
    Good points! Normally I would agree with all of this but Woody has been quoted as saying that Rex is staying and the new GM will have next year to evaluate him. In past cases in the NFL the coach usually lasts only the year. Look at the Browns. Mangini was in the same exact situation with a worse roster. Mangini had no chance to win and he was canned by the new GM after 1 year. We are going to be really bad next year. 4 wins bad! I don't think Woody and the new GM will be able to justify keeping Rex at that point no matter what his chances to win were.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    I know there's cases to be made - especially if you're in the camp that believes that Rex does more harm than good to this team (and forgetting the two AFCCGs)

    ...but really. What kind of situation does the NY Jets pose for a new coach? No cap room, half the roster on the way out, a fcked QB situation, little depth...

    How exactly does that sound like something to attract a talented coaching staff? Its horrible.


    I'm in the camp that believes we wouldn't possible land a credible candidate anyway. Better to let Rex play out 2013 - knowing he's on fringe - and see if can't make this trainwreck competitive. If he doesn't - appealing situation for 2014 candidates. If he does - that says something.
    Some or most of the cap predicament can be fixed by cutting certain players. The team still has a top notch defense and Wilkerson, in particular, is becoming a great player. They still have yet to get their very best players on offense and defense. The team already has a great ST coach to carry on he tradition that Mike Westhoff started.

    On offense, the team still has the foundation for a great offense with pro bowlers along the OL.

    There are MANY coaches out there that would love to take the NYJ job.

    Just the same, we already have a great HC. His name is Rex Ryan. I'm glad Woody Johnson feels the same way.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    How in the world do you expect the 2013 Jets to attract a good candidate? Seriously. Take 10 seconds to consider that question.
    There's 32 NFL GM positions in all the world. There's 32 NFL HC positions in all the world. Its the top spot if your a front office man or a coach. There less than 10 seconds.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LockeJET View Post
    Good points! Normally I would agree with all of this but Woody has been quoted as saying that Rex is staying and the new GM will have next year to evaluate him. In past cases in the NFL the coach usually lasts only the year. Look at the Browns. Mangini was in the same exact situation with a worse roster. Mangini had no chance to win and he was canned by the new GM after 1 year. We are going to be really bad next year. 4 wins bad! I don't think Woody and the new GM will be able to justify keeping Rex at that point no matter what his chances to win were.
    That was a very different situation - you had an owner who was clearly keeping Mangini simply because he didn't want to pay him for another year of not coaching. If this were simply a money issue, I'd agree. But I think Woody really believes in Rex - which means that Rex would have to really spit the bit, on a level beyond wins and losses, to lose his job next year, IMO.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Some or most of the cap predicament can be fixed by cutting certain players. The team still has a top notch defense and Wilkerson, in particular, is becoming a great player. They still have yet to get their very best players on offense and defense. The team already has a great ST coach to carry on he tradition that Mike Westhoff started.

    On offense, the team still has the foundation for a great offense with pro bowlers along the OL.

    There are MANY coaches out there that would love to take the NYJ job.

    Just the same, we already have a great HC. His name is Rex Ryan. I'm glad Woody Johnson feels the same way.
    You are underestimating how bad the cap situation is. We can get 15 to 20M under the cap but would have fewer than 10 starters under contract (on offense: Sanchez, Holmes, Hill, Brick, Mangold; on defense: Wilkerson, Pouha, Harris, Revis, Cromartie). That is ugly.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    There's 32 NFL GM positions in all the world. There's 32 NFL HC positions in all the world. Its the top spot if your a front office man or a coach. There less than 10 seconds.
    Exactly. Also coaches should and do thunk they can fix things. Most candidates are not going to be scared off by a bad situation in year one.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by rextilleon View Post
    I think if there was a great candidate out there, you bring him with the promise of a 4-5 year plan to improve the team.
    There are no more 4-5 year plans in the NFL. 2-3 is the absolute max. Teams have gone from worst to first in one year.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    You are underestimating how bad the cap situation is. We can get 15 to 20M under the cap but would have fewer than 10 starters under contract (on offense: Sanchez, Holmes, Hill, Brick, Mangold; on defense: Wilkerson, Pouha, Harris, Revis, Cromartie). That is ugly.
    What's really ugly is that is with Sanchez as a starter.

    For the last couple of seasons, we've heard that the Jets went for it all and were going to have to pay the piper. That bill is coming due and payment is going to be the 2013 season.

    With a few moves, the Jets will have a lot of cap space to play with in 2014 as long as the FO doesn't do anything desperate this year.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Some or most of the cap predicament can be fixed by cutting certain players. The team still has a top notch defense and Wilkerson, in particular, is becoming a great player. They still have yet to get their very best players on offense and defense. The team already has a great ST coach to carry on he tradition that Mike Westhoff started.

    On offense, the team still has the foundation for a great offense with pro bowlers along the OL.

    There are MANY coaches out there that would love to take the NYJ job.

    Just the same, we already have a great HC. His name is Rex Ryan. I'm glad Woody Johnson feels the same way.
    I think that the defense could look a lot different next year given the turnover that will occur. While Pace, Scott, Smith, Thomas are all considered to be easily replaced, the fact is that there will be a lot of question marks going into next season.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by petejet View Post
    There are no more 4-5 year plans in the NFL. 2-3 is the absolute max. Teams have gone from worst to first in one year.
    Correct. And the way the successful teams are doing it is through the draft. Not throwing buckets of cash at aging veterans. Who ever the new GM is needs to stop the big splash free agent pick ups. Draft good prospects and if the coach can't develop them, get another coach.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    You are underestimating how bad the cap situation is. We can get 15 to 20M under the cap but would have fewer than 10 starters under contract (on offense: Sanchez, Holmes, Hill, Brick, Mangold; on defense: Wilkerson, Pouha, Harris, Revis, Cromartie). That is ugly.
    They're definitely going to have to play hard ball with many starters. But they can also renegotiate contracts that pay the very same amount, just different alotted amounts for each and every cap year.

    Also, I remembered as a normal practice, Mike Tannenbaum always tried to get the largest amounts of new contracts up front so in later years the cap hit was rather small in comparison. I'd like to see how many contracts that is the case with.

    I also think a lot of players would be willing to renegotiate or actually take a pay cut just to stick with the team. Call me crazy, but I think that will be the case with a lot of players. I think the players realize there's a lot of talent on the team and they could still potentially win a championship before they retire if they are willing to make some amends.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rextilleon View Post
    I think if there was a great candidate out there, you bring him with the promise of a 4-5 year plan to improve the team.
    And then run them out of town after 2.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    I think that the defense could look a lot different next year given the turnover that will occur. While Pace, Scott, Smith, Thomas are all considered to be easily replaced, the fact is that there will be a lot of question marks going into next season.
    But you are also underestimating Rex Ryan's ability to plug the potential holes while still remaining a top ten defense. In Rex's 4 years the team has made extensive changes along the defensive line and in the secindary. Yet, they have always been a top ten defense. It's not a stretch to think the defense could easily be top 5 or number 1 if they get the right players in place and do not have to retool every season.

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