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Thread: There is no shortage of ways to examine these option QB's

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    How about you use your vast experience to convince what 99% of us already know . Try not to be too negative - uh I'm sorry I'm talking to long time SOJF Kentucky Jet that's probably not possible.
    Just how many handles have you had on this board anyway, Lance in the Pants?

  2. #62
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    The trick is to be multiple with your offense. All those guys do a lot of different things and the idea is to give the defense one more thing to think about. What makes it so effective though is the combination with a lethal passing game - which you will never have with Tebow...

  3. #63
    there are reasons why the option and the option type qb is not used that much in the nfl and it's mostly because teams just can't find the right mix of personnel to make it work game in and game out. the teams need to use the talents of the players they have. qb that do come out and can run or pass well can succeed for a short time until they get walloped that one time. vick had all the talent as a runner but isn't doing so well, rg3 may have a career ending injury, tebow just couldn't throw well enough to give the option an option. and why run an option when it's easier to simply get a passer who can pass some receivers and an oline to pass block and put lots of points up simply by passing.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    It's a weird breed of athletic QBs that can also throw that are coming up all at once. Maybe some of the read option stuff is a little gimmickey, but there's always going to be a role for a superb athlete who can throw the ball at such a high level. RG3 and Wilson are throwing nearly 65% completion as rookies, Kaepernick right behind them at 62%, and not in a dink and dunk way, they're slinging it all over the field with accuracy, AND they can run. It's really something to behold.
    He rminds me of Brett Farve when he first came up. The kid is a keeper.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by JaxSuzy View Post
    Thanks for sharing what it takes to be a winning QB in the NFL. Nobody said it was "excellent". But according to your criteria any games won by a team that scored 18 points or less don't count. Got it.



    So following your train of thought:

    There are "pocket passers" or "elite QBs" that are way better than most of the other starting QBs in the league. Does that mean the rest of the QBs in the NFL should give up? No.

    There are 32 starting QBs in the NFL and every QB can't be a Brady, Rodgers, Brees, or Kaepernick. Somehow these "inferior" QBs manage to win games. Maybe because it takes a TEAM to win - not just a great QB or star RB.
    My point is that his best gameplay attribute is something that most people, NFL and fan alike, would consider a BONUS attribute for a QB. More and more QB's are proving proficient in that area, though, so we could be looking at a turning point.

    Also, most of those 2nd and 3rd tier QB's really DON'T win many games. That's why the BIG name QB'S are always in the playoffs and the "inferior" ones are at home watching.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by sackdance View Post
    Wrong. Tebow was never given the chance to be terrible. There are a sh*tton of intangibles at the QB position and most of TT's are good. Before the season at Denver he was projected starter - then his camp was so bad the whisper was he was 4th or even 5th best QB in camp - and was only kept because they drafted him so high (in relative terms). Then he was 2nd string. Then he did an excellent job quarterbacking the Broncos.

    No matter how bad Sanchez played, and he played worse than any QB in the league, Tebow was never given the chance for someone like you to call him "terrible" - because as far as his resume goes playing QB in the NFL - it's "excellent".

    One start. One start in this miserable season, Tebow could have come out and gone 9/22 for 100 yds and 2 picks. And he would have earned the right for us to call him terrible. But he was denied that. All I can judge him on was what he did for Denver and Florida before that.

    The whole thing pisses me off - the way Tebow was handled shows us more how bad a coach Rex Ryan is than about how good (or bad) Tebow is at QB.
    It is well known and documented that Tebow has dyslexia. It is well known that people that have dyslexia learn from phyiscally doing and not just reading.

    It is difficult for him to JUST read the plays in a playbook and do them. He needs practice to walk through the motions in practice. Once he has done that he knows them as well as any QB. At FL they took the time to do that. The Jets never took the interest in working with his dyslexia.

    Tebow can succeed if a coach will take the time to develop him and walk him through the plays in practice.

    I don't really expect many people on this blog to consider this as minds are made up. It is easier to just repeat what they have heard and say he is garbage, trash, and cannot throw. He did do more than Manning though and threw a winning TD in overtime. Imagine that.

  7. #67
    Your linebacking corps have to be fast, and a 3-4 will be best.

    One of your safeties has to be good in coverage.

    Not saying Rodgers is a read option guy, but he does run and if you noticed, the Niners, notorious for not being blitz-happy sure sent 4.5/4.4 LB Patrick Willis on blitzes alot...........

  8. #68
    There are "pocket passers" or "elite QBs" that are way better than most of the other starting QBs in the league. Does that mean the rest of the QBs in the NFL should give up? No.

    There are 32 starting QBs in the NFL and every QB can't be a Brady, Rodgers, Brees, or Kaepernick. Somehow these "inferior" QBs manage to win games. Maybe because it takes a TEAM to win - not just a great QB or star RB.
    For the past 12 years you've needed an elite QB to win a Super Bowl.

    If Kaepernick wins the Super Bowl then that will support that a guy who is not necessarily a great passer can win you the Super Bowl if he can run the ball.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by sackdance View Post
    Just how many handles have you had on this board anyway, Lance in the Pants?
    Just for your satisfaction, I've had two my previous was bigmehl. I haven't posted much on these boards but I have long enough to know there's nothing I need to say to you to embarrass you - you'll take care of that all by yourself.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreaming Daddy View Post
    It is well known and documented that Tebow has dyslexia. It is well known that people that have dyslexia learn from phyiscally doing and not just reading.

    It is difficult for him to JUST read the plays in a playbook and do them. He needs practice to walk through the motions in practice. Once he has done that he knows them as well as any QB. At FL they took the time to do that. The Jets never took the interest in working with his dyslexia.

    Tebow can succeed if a coach will take the time to develop him and walk him through the plays in practice.

    I don't really expect many people on this blog to consider this as minds are made up. It is easier to just repeat what they have heard and say he is garbage, trash, and cannot throw. He did do more than Manning though and threw a winning TD in overtime. Imagine that.
    And I'm assuming you know Rex has dyslexia as well and is very public in his struggles in hopes of bringing the issues to light for others who also struggle with it. No, you probably don't know that because you probably know nothing at all about the Jets, only what pushes your Tebow agenda. If Tim Tebow's struggles were solely or even largely due to dyslexia then he has the best and most understanding coach in the league. But the fact is Tebow's issues are he's slow and throws a football like ****.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    Just for your satisfaction, I've had two my previous was bigmehl. I haven't posted much on these boards but I have long enough to know there's nothing I need to say to you to embarrass you - you'll take care of that all by yourself.
    Welcome to JetsInsider again, you normal guy.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    It's a weird breed of athletic QBs that can also throw that are coming up all at once. Maybe some of the read option stuff is a little gimmickey, but there's always going to be a role for a superb athlete who can throw the ball at such a high level. RG3 and Wilson are throwing nearly 65% completion as rookies, Kaepernick right behind them at 62%, and not in a dink and dunk way, they're slinging it all over the field with accuracy, AND they can run. It's really something to behold.
    Good post.

    Passing will always have it's place in the NFL, these guys do both, run and pass so well that it will be tough to defend no matter how much defenses adjust.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaxSuzy View Post
    Well, for one thing, he had more wins in a partial season last year than some starting QBs had this entire season. He definitely won more games in 2011 than Blaine Gabbert, Mark Sanchez or Greg McElroy did this year.

    Rex's refusal to start Tebow for even 1 game was either the height of stubbornness or poor judgment, unless he was saving the secret weapon for this year LOL.
    Quote Originally Posted by sackdance View Post
    Coming off the bench to win football games for a losing team. He did a "excellent" job.

    And what was the Jets story this year? Losing lots of game precisely from substandard play at the QB position. We likely would have salvaged a more formidable run at the playoffs with that QB switch to a Tebow - Sanchez's turnovers were the culprit in damn near every loss. We had more than enough D.

    You guys are like a bunch of rainmen - just the thought of taking out Sanchez and putting in Tebow for a game in a futile season makes y'all flip the f*ck out like someone switching the channel away from Judge Wapner at snack time.
    I'm still not seeing "excellent" in here ... being better than Mark Sanchez does not make anyone "excellent".Winning games for a losing team is commendable, but far from excellent. (Heck, McElroy won one for the Jets by only playing for one quarter).

    And by the way, I have no love for Sanchez either ... I want him cut as soon as possible and for this team to go in a new direction at QB. I just don't feel, personally, that Tebow is the correct route to go. Watching Wilson and Kaepernick in what I saw this weekend, both are strong at passing and can run also. Tebow to me is fairly strong at running, but not strong at all at passing. Again, in only TWO games last year did he complete over 50% of his passes.

  14. #74
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    Everyone knows that Tebow was terrible the first 3 1/2 quarters and then lit it up. That's because what he does is perfect for the prevent defense. NE figured that out and put a stop to it. No one knows why coaches still insist on running it, but if we can get them to run it all game against us then we've got ourselves a QB.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by sameoldjets View Post
    there are reasons why the option and the option type qb is not used that much in the nfl and it's mostly because teams just can't find the right mix of personnel to make it work game in and game out. the teams need to use the talents of the players they have. qb that do come out and can run or pass well can succeed for a short time until they get walloped that one time. vick had all the talent as a runner but isn't doing so well, rg3 may have a career ending injury, tebow just couldn't throw well enough to give the option an option. and why run an option when it's easier to simply get a passer who can pass some receivers and an oline to pass block and put lots of points up simply by passing.
    The thing is, no one is running "the option" right now, this is a completely different offense.

    First off, the reason the traditional option wasnt able to be run in the pros was because defenses were too fast, but that was because teams never threw out of the option plays....now that has completely changed.

    Now when you look at the players running this offense, the threat to pass is equal to the threat of the run, making it much more difficult to defend.

    I think that basic read option plays, even with the Non- RGIIIs of the world (basically QBs with aaron rogers-type/above average athleticism) will be party of evey playbook as they are very difficult to defend and allow for teams that dont have peyton or brady to be more efficient on offense.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by NYJCAP2 View Post
    Good post.

    Passing will always have it's place in the NFL, these guys do both, run and pass so well that it will be tough to defend no matter how much defenses adjust.
    Definitely, tough to defend against. The key is for the pass rushers not to get too far upfield, they need to keep the qb in the pocket almost like its contain on a outside run. Dc's will find a way to slow these guys down , they always do. They'll force these hybrid type QB's to become more pocket based and that will level the playing field again.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    I don't understand why CBs playing read option run defense are not coached to go hit the QB on every play. Assume he kept the ball, and if he runs out in your direction, level him. If he has the ball, it's a great tackle, if not, it's a free shot on the QB that shouldn't be penalized
    These is where the new NFL rules has come into play. QB's are protected as are WR's. The QB who can run and throw puts a huge burden on the safties. This is evolution based on rule changes.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    These is where the new NFL rules has come into play. QB's are protected as are WR's. The QB who can run and throw puts a huge burden on the safties. This is evolution based on rule changes.
    True - but if the QB is executing a run fake he can be tackled without penalty. That should happen every single play.

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