Is the Patriots offense a "gimmick" offense

[PMarsico9]

You conveniently forgot the most important item. They played without a salary cap. If you don't think that had a huge impact, I've got a great bridge to sell you.

Jesus the Patriots forums must be terribly boring.

It doesn't matter, I don't care.

Dinky-doo passing game with midgets running slants from the slot isn't interesting or entertaining offensive football.

There are alot of QB's I'd rather watch play than Brady.

It's a shame your team let Moss go. That one year WAS incredible.

Of course, one play by a 3rd string WR and an idiot savant QB overshadowed how great it really was...........

[Fixit]

If you are asking me to hypothesize how this would work to be an advantage, it's not really that complicated. You have an intern or some low pay employee with some knowledge of defensive schemes effectively watch the DC's hand signals prior to the play then watch the reactions of each position during a play. As such incredibly detailed and in-depth scientific study dictates that you will know what a defense will do as hand signals come out from the other side

Why not go on the Dolphins or Bills boards? Both have more to be afraid of. Why troll Jets boards?

"If you are asking me to hypothesize how this would work to be an advantage, it's not really that complicated. You have an intern or some low pay employee with some knowledge of defensive schemes effectively watch the DC's hand signals prior to the play then watch the reactions of each position during a play. As such incredibly detailed and in-depth scientific study dictates that you will know what a defense will do as hand signals come out from the other side."

Two thoughts on this:
1) Every team already has people on the sidelines who attempt to do this. Legally.
2) You expect some low-paid intern to be able to decipher and match those signals with complicated defensive schemes? In 12 minutes? Again, assuming they had the tape, which they didn't.

"Why not go on the Dolphins or Bills boards? Both have more to be afraid of. Why troll Jets boards?"

They just don't have people like you.

And I'm not trolling. I'm arguing with someone because he said lots of dumb stuff and can't support it when challenged.

[ASG0531]

Jesus the Patriots forums must be terribly boring.

It doesn't matter, I don't care.

Dinky-doo passing game with midgets running slants from the slot isn't interesting or entertaining offensive football.

There are alot of QB's I'd rather watch play than Brady.

It's a shame your team let Moss go. That one year WAS incredible.

Of course, one play by a 3rd string WR and an idiot savant QB overshadowed how great it really was...........

LOL.
Gonna watch my midgets catch dinky-doo passes all day next Sunday.

I'm awaiting the moment if/when the Pats do win the Super Bowl, and PMarsico announces to the world that yet again, the Pats didn't "really" win the Super Bowl, because the game has changed in ways he doesn't like and he can't truly take this seriously as football.

Whatever helps ya, buddy. Seriously, keep going.

[PMarsico9]

And I'm not trolling. I'm arguing with someone because he said lots of dumb stuff and can't support it when challenged.

As soon as a Patriots fan feels the need to post on a Jets board it's trolling.

And again calling me dumb or stupid, when you attribute it to coincidence that your team has been to the Super Bowl twice, once with the 2nd best team of all-time, and lost both times since Spygate.

[PMarsico9]

LOL.
Gonna watch my midgets catch dinky-doo passes all day next Sunday.

I'm awaiting the moment if/when the Pats do win the Super Bowl, and PMarsico announces to the world that yet again, the Pats didn't "really" win the Super Bowl, because the game has changed in ways he doesn't like and he can't truly take this seriously as football.

Whatever helps ya, buddy. Seriously, keep going.

This is pathetic trolling in case you were wondering Fix. Yours is just trolling.

[Fixit]

As soon as a Patriots fan feels the need to post on a Jets board it's trolling.

And again calling me dumb or stupid, when you attribute it to coincidence that your team has been to the Super Bowl twice, once with the 2nd best team of all-time, and lost both times since Spygate.

Yeah, sure. Trolling. You see me arguing with anyone else? Or just starting ****e for funsies?

" ... coincidence that your team has been to the Super Bowl twice, once with the 2nd best team of all-time, and lost both times since Spygate."

Lost on last-minute drives that each featured a miraculous looong catch, and:

- The first of which featured a helmet catch, a missed "in the grasp" call, and multiple dropped interceptions, all on the same drive.

- The second of which featured a dropped ball that would have won the SB.

Your logic is astounding. Just so I'm clear here: if the Pats win this year, you'll take it all back, right?

[PMarsico9]

Yeah, sure. Trolling. You see me arguing with anyone else? Or just starting ****e for funsies?

" ... coincidence that your team has been to the Super Bowl twice, once with the 2nd best team of all-time, and lost both times since Spygate."

Lost on last-minute drives that each featured a miraculous looong catch, and:

- The first of which featured a helmet catch, a missed "in the grasp" call, and multiple dropped interceptions, all on the same drive.

- The second of which featured a dropped ball that would have won the SB.

Your logic is astounding. Just so I'm clear here: if the Pats win this year, you'll take it all back, right?

If the Pats win this year, I will view Brady as better than Bradshaw, but I still won't rank him higher than Montana. Just so we're clear.

I'm not that concerned about your Pats winning this year, though. Another year for Jones and Hightower and some more upgrades to your defense this off-season and I may view them differently.

I had a bit of a realization on the way home, though:

The issue is really the inferiority complex that Bostonians have. It's why there's so many Pats fans on Jetsinsider.

Maybe a good move would be to go share your thoughts about the missed grasp call on the Giants boards, since, you know, at least they are relevant.

[Fixit]

The issue is really the inferiority complex that Bostonians have. It's why there's so many Pats fans on Jetsinsider.

See, you keep trying to insult me as a Pats fan, whereas I've said nothing of the sort about the Jets fans in general. I've already said that I enjoy seeing another fanbase's viewpoint. Your team loyalty isn't relevant to me; it's just that your arguments suck hardcore.

Having said that, if there's any sort of complex going on within the Pats fanbase regarding the Jets, believe me, it ain't an inferiority one.

[PMarsico9]

See, you keep trying to insult me as a Pats fan, whereas I've said nothing of the sort about the Jets fans in general. I've already said that I enjoy seeing another fanbase's viewpoint. Your team loyalty isn't relevant to me; it's just that your arguments suck hardcore.

Having said that, if there's any sort of complex going on within the Pats fanbase regarding the Jets, believe me, it ain't an inferiority one.

What arguments?

You are arguing that Spygate has no bearing on your team's ability to win Championships and yet you have won none since Spygate.

I stated my opinion on QB's and you continually just bash it and say my opinion is stupid.

That's fine, point taken, move on. The entire discussion has been subjective to begin with.

There's no right or wrong.

I'm not providing some mathematical formula or **** like that.

[Fixit]

You are arguing that Spygate has no bearing on your team's ability to win Championships and yet you have won none since Spygate.

I see your point. The Pats haven't won since JJ Stokes left the team, either.

[Zarathustra]

The 2012 Pats offense was the third all time scoring offense in NFL history, and broke a new record for like 450 1st downs in a single season or something.

The only teams to score more points than the 2012 Patriots were the (2) 2011 Packers and the (1) 2007 Patriots, and I believe the '12 Patsies only missed the #2 spot the Packers hold by 3 points.

So if that's a gimmick lets get some of the action happening over here

[detjetsfan]

The 2012 Pats offense was the third all time scoring offense in NFL history, and broke a new record for like 450 1st downs in a single season or something.

The only teams to score more points than the 2012 Patriots were the (2) 2011 Packers and the (1) 2007 Patriots, and I believe the '12 Patsies only missed the #2 spot the Packers hold by 3 points.

So if that's a gimmick lets get some of the action happening over here

Brady is a top 3 QB of all-time - and I hate Tom Brady. But I'm not like these idiot Red Sox fans who act like Derek Jeter is a JAG.

And where are all the Danny Giveshead-lovers? Shane Vereen and Brady showed yesterday just how expendable and interchangeable Goodhead is with any other rb on their roster.

[detjetsfan]

I see your point. The Pats haven't won since JJ Stokes left the team, either.

Pats haven't won anything since spygate b/c Wes "I can catch anything in the regular season" Welker muffed a very catchable ball in the 4th qtr of last year's SB that would have probably sealed that game for them.

[ASG0531]

Brady is a top 3 QB of all-time - and I hate Tom Brady. But I'm not like these idiot Red Sox fans who act like Derek Jeter is a JAG.

And where are all the Danny Giveshead-lovers? Shane Vereen and Brady showed yesterday just how expendable and interchangeable Goodhead is with any other rb on their roster.

As a Boston homer, I can easily say Jeter's a great player. I saw him crush my team so many times, he's one of the best ever, HOFer, send him right in, and a class act to boot. Would be nice if some could acknowledge the same of Brady.

[Gastineau99]

Patriots don't run pick plays, they actually block defensive backs before the ball is half way to the WR on those screens. The O-Lineman also immediately run downfield and block. It amazes me every time I see it and I begin to wonder if the NFL changed Fe rule or something. I think it's just a case of Belichick pushing it and pushing it until the refs will actually start calling it.

The rest of the league has to start running these plays as well, because its pretty much impossible to stop in certain coverages.

[ASG0531]

This is pathetic trolling in case you were wondering Fix. Yours is just trolling.

Just put you on ignore. Are you going to put the Super Bowl on mute or ***** about it? We shall see. I can deal with Jordy and even Ray Ray. They're actually smart posters. Stubborn, but smart. You are impossible to argue with.

[Warfish]

Would be nice if some could acknowledge the same of Brady.

Some have.

[Demosthenes9]

If the Pats win this year, I will view Brady as better than Bradshaw, but I still won't rank him higher than Montana. Just so we're clear.

I'm not that concerned about your Pats winning this year, though. Another year for Jones and Hightower and some more upgrades to your defense this off-season and I may view them differently.

I had a bit of a realization on the way home, though:

The issue is really the inferiority complex that Bostonians have. It's why there's so many Pats fans on Jetsinsider.

Maybe a good move would be to go share your thoughts about the missed grasp call on the Giants boards, since, you know, at least they are relevant.

Have to seriously laugh about how you scoff at Brady and call him a dink and dunker, yet you believe Joe Montana to be one of the best ever.

Much of his career was built on throwing 5-10 yard passes to Jerry Rice, who would then turn up the field and go 70 yards

[AFCBeast]

Well the only fact that matters is that you haven't won a Super Bowl since Spygate.

How come your team hasn't won a Super Bowl since Spygate? Please enlighten me on the facts, so I can be clear here, since you are obviously fact-based and can confirm that the Pats never cheated from 2000-07.

That's actually a pretty easy answer. Players age. Spygate happened in 2007 and a significant portion of the group of players from the Patriots glory days were at the end of their respective careers and/or had moved on to other teams via free agency.

That Championship core essentially existed from 2001 to 2007. Even 2007 was very different from 2004, at least on offense.

2008-2010 were rebuilding years for the Patriots which I'd say they executed rather well. Not only are they back near the top of the league (AFC Champions last year and still alive to win it all this year) but they rebuilt their team on the fly without ever suffering through a losing season. Damn, they never even lost less than 10 games.

Love them or hate them, they are the model franchise in this league. You have to respect what they've accomplished.

I don't know if Brady is the best QB ever but he's definitely in the discussion. I will agree, however, that the resume of accomplishments he's achieved (Titles, wins, stats, etc...) is probably on its way towards becoming the most impressive resume of all time. It's a team sport though so its difficult to compare these guys in absolute terms.

I've always been a critic of Marino who I feel is/was extremely over-rated. Outside of his first 2-3 years, he was mostly mediocre. Far too many games where he simply stunk up the joint. Marino could sling the ball with the best of them but his decision making was always suspect. There are key points in games where the decisions a QB makes will determine whether they convert the 3rd down or punt the ball away. These 3rd downs play a huge role in determining winners and losers. When I look at Marino's playoff failures, I don't see a guy who played lights out football but whose teammates let him down. Instead, I see a guy who put up some of his worst performances in the biggest games he played. Similar to Peyton Manning, I think.

I think the debate for best ever consists of Montana, Brady, Staubach (who everyone always forgets), and perhaps a few players I never saw play in person, like Unitas and Otto Graham.

I don't put Elway in that b/c he was never very consistent but I do think he was the most clutch QB I've ever seen. Nobody ran the two minute offense any better than John Elway. Now that I think of it, Elway is actually very similar to Eli Manning. Very streaky but when he's on, nobody's better.

That's my two cents. I hope this was a quality first post.

[jets80]

No "Gimmick"...just a HOF coach and a HOF qb...