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Thread: For those who wanted Mangini second go-round, he agreed with Fox's decision to kneel

  1. #1

    For those who wanted Mangini second go-round, he agreed with Fox's decision to kneel

    People who longed for Mangini to return forget what a gutless, conservative loser Mangini had become by the end of his tenure as head coach of the Jets. Kicking FGs on 4th and a foot deep in opponent territory, punting the ball away in situations where it made sense to go for it, conservative gameplans, etc. had become commonplace by the end of the 2008 season.

    His agreement with Fox kneeling on the ball at the end of Broncos-Ravens (he was on Mike and Mike this morning) proves he has not changed one bit from his previous failed coaching strategies. That type of mentality from a coach will never win a team anything. Golic and Greenberg were practically beside themselves arguing with him over it.

    Just thought I'd point it out as there was some groundswell of support for Mangini among certain posters here.

  2. #2
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    I'm not going to neither defend or criticize John Fox decision. But what if they go for it and they happen to turn the ball over right there and the Raven win the game, how many people will call John Fox stupid then?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tai Mai Shu View Post
    I'm not going to neither defend or criticize John Fox decision. But what if they go for it and they happen to turn the ball over right there and the Raven win the game, how many people will call John Fox stupid then?
    You can't coach scared with the league MVP lining up at QB for you. This is common sense. Fox claimed the team was shell-shocked by the big play to Jones, well only the D would have been shell-shocked, not the offense. Kneeling it runs the real risk (and it came true) of the Ravens getting the ball again before you even have a meaningful possession. So Fox's logic: D is very shell-shocked from big play, offense must be shell-shocked too, employ strategy that puts D out on field again before giving offense a chance. It is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever seen a coach do.

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    Broncos did have like 3 or 4 possessions in OT. Their legendary QB threw an awful INT. It happens.

    Not sure what I would have done. Like Fox said, the team was in a state of shock. He knows his team better than anybody. If they won the game we would never even mention it. That is the way these things go.

    BTW, I think if Peyton insisted on not kneeling they wouldn't have kneeled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    You can't coach scared with the league MVP lining up at QB for you. This is common sense. Fox claimed the team was shell-shocked by the big play to Jones, well only the D would have been shell-shocked, not the offense. Kneeling it runs the real risk (and it came true) of the Ravens getting the ball again before you even have a meaningful possession. So Fox's logic: D is very shell-shocked from big play, offense must be shell-shocked too, employ strategy that puts D out on field again before giving offense a chance. It is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever seen a coach do.
    I don't think too many coaches would have gone for it.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Broncos did have like 3 or 4 possessions in OT. Their legendary QB threw an awful INT. It happens.

    Not sure what I would have done. Like Fox said, the team was in a state of shock. He knows his team better than anybody. If they won the game we would never even mention it. That is the way these things go.

    BTW, I think if Peyton insisted on not kneeling they wouldn't have kneeled.
    Fox is covering his rear end. State of shock? LOL it's football, crazy plays happen all the time. You don't just give up when something big doesn't go your way. You get Peyton Manning for moments like that. Him throwing an INT in OT is an independent situation with no bearing on what he might have done at the end there. Teams move down the field for a game-tying/winning FG in short time every week in the NFL. Matt Ryan did it the next day, and he was coming off a bad INT 2 possessions before that. Had we done this, even with an error-prone QB like Sanchez, our fanbase would have been outraged. And that's with Sanchez, not Peyton

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Fox is covering his rear end. State of shock? LOL it's football, crazy plays happen all the time. You don't just give up when something big doesn't go your way. You get Peyton Manning for moments like that. Him throwing an INT in OT is an independent situation with no bearing on what he might have done at the end there. Teams move down the field for a game-tying/winning FG in short time every week in the NFL. Matt Ryan did it the next day, and he was coming off a bad INT 2 possessions before that. Had we done this, even with an error-prone QB like Sanchez, our fanbase would have been outraged. And that's with Sanchez, not Peyton
    If the ball was near mid field or there was more time I could see your point. But starting at your own 20 with 31 seconds left? I don't think so.

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    It was the right move. Manning couldnt throw the ball more then 10 yards anymore. His arm was shot.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by petejet View Post
    I don't think too many coaches would have gone for it.
    I think most coaches would've... Certainly every coach still in the playoffs.

  10. #10
    People forget that the game got colder as it went on and before it was over temps were down under 0 degrees. That ball must've been like a rock.

    It was a good call.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axil View Post
    I think most coaches would've... Certainly every coach still in the playoffs.
    Not a chance. They needed to get about 45-50 yds for a legitimate shot at a FG. Peyton threw the ball down field a whopping 2 times the entire game. No coach worth his salt is going to take that risk when they can go to OT - at home, with their MVP QB.

  12. #12

    John Fox's decision was dumb.

    1. You are paying Manning 100 million dollars for his smarts and his arm. He has a good chance in making a completed pass for a FG attempt and a win.
    2. Did not Brady and Bellichek go for it in a similar situation and win a SB?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Bandit View Post
    People forget that the game got colder as it went on and before it was over temps were down under 0 degrees. That ball must've been like a rock.

    It was a good call.
    Ah, it all makes sense now. Manning is old, and getting cold. So instead of having him throw it then and there, you let him sit on the sidelines through the end of regulation intermission, the coin toss, and the raven's possession. All of this while temperatures drop, and his body cools down from inactivity. Now he's ready!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe W. Namath View Post
    It was the right move. Manning couldnt throw the ball more then 10 yards anymore. His arm was shot.
    Yep. That is the real story...except his arm "is" shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Broncos did have like 3 or 4 possessions in OT. Their legendary QB threw an awful INT. It happens.

    Not sure what I would have done. Like Fox said, the team was in a state of shock. He knows his team better than anybody. If they won the game we would never even mention it. That is the way these things go.

    BTW, I think if Peyton insisted on not kneeling they wouldn't have kneeled.
    People act like Peyton had this great game. The Broncos got 14 points on special teams. Peyton had tons of chance in OT, and what did he do? Threw a pic. I'm sure if Manning said, "Coach, let me do it!!" Fox would have let him. Peyton looked like an old guy who didn't want to be out there anymore.

    I don't have a huge problem with the kneel down.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    People who longed for Mangini to return forget what a gutless, conservative loser Mangini had become by the end of his tenure as head coach of the Jets. Kicking FGs on 4th and a foot deep in opponent territory, punting the ball away in situations where it made sense to go for it, conservative gameplans, etc. had become commonplace by the end of the 2008 season.

    His agreement with Fox kneeling on the ball at the end of Broncos-Ravens (he was on Mike and Mike this morning) proves he has not changed one bit from his previous failed coaching strategies. That type of mentality from a coach will never win a team anything. Golic and Greenberg were practically beside themselves arguing with him over it.

    Just thought I'd point it out as there was some groundswell of support for Mangini among certain posters here.
    Eric Mangini is a good coach and his body or work with the Jets was a good one overall. Look at the roster and the way the organization was run. Not too many coaches get fired after 9 and 7 seasons. To label him a bad coach is far from the truth.

    As for him returning. That ship has sailed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stillafan View Post
    1. You are paying Manning 100 million dollars for his smarts and his arm. He has a good chance in making a completed pass for a FG attempt and a win.
    2. Did not Brady and Bellichek go for it in a similar situation and win a SB?
    Did you watch the game? They needed to get about 45-50 yds for a legitimate shot at a FG. Peyton threw the ball down field a whopping 2 times the entire game. All of a sudden he is supposed to come out gunning the ball down field? BTW how old was Brady when he won that SB compared to Peyton now?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by petejet View Post
    Not a chance. They needed to get about 45-50 yds for a legitimate shot at a FG. Peyton threw the ball down field a whopping 2 times the entire game. No coach worth his salt is going to take that risk when they can go to OT - at home, with their MVP QB.
    He's the MVP QB in the 4th as well as in OT. Give him a shot, he may not get another one.

    All it takes is one blown coverage, or a broken tackle and the game is over. Both of those things are far more likely than Manning throwing a second consecutive INT.

    I just can't see either of the Harbaugh's, Belichick or Smith punting that ball. I could see the argument in the case of the 49'ers, i still don't think he'd do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axil View Post
    He's the MVP QB in the 4th as well as in OT. Give him a shot, he may not get another one.

    All it takes is one blown coverage, or a broken tackle and the game is over. Both of those things are far more likely than Manning throwing a second consecutive INT.

    I just can't see either of the Harbaugh's, Belichick or Smith punting that ball. I could see the argument in the case of the 49'ers, i still don't think he'd do it.
    All it takes is a bad exchange between C and QB in sub zeros temps and the game is over. I think it was all about the field position. A miscue on your own 20 and Baltimore kicks a FG - game over. If they are close to midfield and something happens Baltimore may still need to move the ball for a FG - no time left. You just don't take chances that deep in your own end in the playoffs with the season on the line.

  20. #20
    In a bubble, i hated the move. but considering the state of mind of the players, it may have been the smart move at the time.

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