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Thread: WSJ: Maybe the Jets' Cap Situation Isn't Hopeless

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jetglass View Post
    As bad an attitude as he has, theres no way they can lose Holmes. Our receiving corps is terrible. Holmes is the only legitimate starting receiver on the roster. Holmes is a good #2, and Kerley a good #3. Get rid of Holmes and all you have on your team is a good #3. Hold off on comments about Hill. The guy is a bust now and will be the rest of his career. You can teach WR's to run better routes, use their body better to get to the ball, but you can never teach them how to catch the freakin ball.
    Jesus can you guys cut Hill any slack at all? The guy was a rookie WR all these clowns on this site who were screaming for the Jets to draft Blackmon in 1st round (who also struggled this year btw) "Oh look at AJ Green, Julio Jones, If only Jets drafted a WR for once."


    WR's take 3 YEARS TO DEVELOP in the National Football League. Hill is going to be fine. Resign Keller and Braylon to 1 year incentive laden deals I think our receiver corps next season will be pretty good with a healthy Tone back and Kerley in the slot.

  2. #22
    Wow, what an eye opener:

    Quote Originally Posted by yayankee View Post
    2012 positional rank
    Jason Smith T $12M $12M 35th of 122 (who the heck is he?)

    Calvin Pace
    LB $11.57M $8.56M 69th of 72 (69 of 72? Gone!)

    Bart Scott
    LB $8.65M $7.15M 23rd of 112 (Wow, never know it based on what you hear here, or on all the tackles I saw him miss. Who is doing this grading???)

    Sione Pouha
    DT $6.17M $3.83M 51st of 85 (I think that's since his back issues, is he salvagable?)

    Eric Smith
    S $3M $3M 125th of 170 (Bye)

    Tim Tebow
    QB $2.59M $1.53M 34th of 71 (Another shocker! that makes him the #2 backup in the league????? based on what?)

    Santonio Holmes
    WR $12.5M $1.25M 100th of 206 (total shocker, why is he one of the highest paid on the team? Not even top 50% AND a cancer, dump)

    Antonio Cromartie
    CB $10.75M $1.25M 15th of 217 (Keeper, No Brainer)

    Sources: NYJetsCap.com, ProFootballFocus.com

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...testheadlines#

    Not sure about Cro; but the others are necessary to clean up the mess.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    disagree. braylon edwards can be as good a #1 as holmes has ever been here for alot less money. look to get improvement from kerley,hill and a possible free agent or draft pick.

    it wont matter who you have in the wr corps if sanchez is still the qb in 2013.
    All Sanchez did was go to the playoffs and nearly take your team to the Super Bowl in 2009-2010 when he actually had receivers who could get open. This "Sanchez can't even be on the roster" nonsense reminds me of the Brett Favre-hatred in 2008. "Favre just threw 22 picks he's done get rid of da bum" all I heard.

    Yet if the Jets had just held onto Favre one more year and brought in Rex they would have won the Super Bowl in 2009.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by JetsNeedNewton View Post
    Wow, what an eye opener:
    On that list I cut everyone except Cro and Holmes. Pouha we can resign on the cheap after cutting him. That's what we did with Marvin Jones years ago.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by jetglass View Post
    As bad an attitude as he has, theres no way they can lose Holmes. Our receiving corps is terrible. Holmes is the only legitimate starting receiver on the roster. Holmes is a good #2, and Kerley a good #3. Get rid of Holmes and all you have on your team is a good #3. Hold off on comments about Hill. The guy is a bust now and will be the rest of his career. You can teach WR's to run better routes, use their body better to get to the ball, but you can never teach them how to catch the freakin ball.
    Hill and Kerley are both far from terrible. If we find a QB can can throw the ball Hill can put up great #s. He will be a legit play maker in this league. Kerley did just as good as Holmes or BE. Wouldn't miss either really. That said we don't save enough to warrant cutting Holmes. BE is NOT a replacement. That is just trading one head ache for anther IMO. Even if we draft anther WR Holmes should still be back. Unless we can actually trade him but that is a lot of money for someone else to take.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jetglass View Post
    As bad an attitude as he has, theres no way they can lose Holmes. Our receiving corps is terrible. Holmes is the only legitimate starting receiver on the roster. Holmes is a good #2, and Kerley a good #3. Get rid of Holmes and all you have on your team is a good #3. Hold off on comments about Hill. The guy is a bust now and will be the rest of his career. You can teach WR's to run better routes, use their body better to get to the ball, but you can never teach them how to catch the freakin ball.
    I don't think Holmes is legitimate ... He's a no 2 receiver at best.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-Met57 View Post
    so another words we cant afford to pay anyone, no one wants to play here, and we have no capacity to draft or sign free agents. does that about cover it? you must be one of those guys that knows exactly who our next GM should be
    I take the time to give the Jets situation a little context, and this is your smartazz reply?

    It's one thing to get under the cap - it's another to get under the cap and to still have to sign/resign 11 starting positions.

    Sure, we can free up space to be around 15-20 million under, but then we have 11 starters to sign. Do the math... it's not an ideal position.

    As for your other comments insulting me for no reason - GFY

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by shuler82 View Post
    I take the time to give the Jets situation a little context, and this is your smartazz reply?

    It's one thing to get under the cap - it's another to get under the cap and to still have to sign/resign 11 starting positions.

    Sure, we can free up space to be around 15-20 million under, but then we have 11 starters to sign. Do the math... it's not an ideal position.

    As for your other comments insulting me for no reason - GFY
    We have the draft. Assume you get 3-4 starters (1x LB, 2X Guards, maybe a Safety) that's going to cost us only about $4 mil in cap room. Then you can sign cheap mid-level veterans like Braylon and Keller to 1 year deals.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    Hill and Kerley are both far from terrible. If we find a QB can can throw the ball Hill can put up great #s. He will be a legit play maker in this league. Kerley did just as good as Holmes or BE. Wouldn't miss either really. That said we don't save enough to warrant cutting Holmes. BE is NOT a replacement. That is just trading one head ache for anther IMO. Even if we draft anther WR Holmes should still be back. Unless we can actually trade him but that is a lot of money for someone else to take.
    We need both Tone and BE next year. Not signing BE last off-season proved to be disastrous. He showed he was still an effective player last year and had chemistry with Suckchez.

    Kerley is a #3 WR and a slot guy who was asked to do way too much last season. Hill is learning but should not yet be relied upon as a starter.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    We have the draft. Assume you get 3-4 starters (1x LB, 2X Guards, maybe a Safety) that's going to cost us only about $4 mil in cap room. Then you can sign cheap mid-level veterans like Braylon and Keller to 1 year deals.
    well, exactly. you need to find a few starters in the draft, and then sign a few low level free agents. It can certainly be done - but anyone thinking the Jets are going to be able to get back Landry at $5 million or go out and sign a premiere pass rusher or OL is mistaken.

    A lot can happen in the next few months- like I said, they could either trade or restructure Harris and Cro to free up room.. Maybe they trade Revis or agree to a new contract that will lower his 2013 cap number.. if any of those things happen, maybe they're able to make a moderate splash in FA and sign an impact player or two..

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    We have the draft. Assume you get 3-4 starters (1x LB, 2X Guards, maybe a Safety) that's going to cost us only about $4 mil in cap room. Then you can sign cheap mid-level veterans like Braylon and Keller to 1 year deals.
    That's an unlikely assumption though. I realize we'll have different management running the draft this year, and probably a full slate of picks, but we haven't even drafted 2 starters as rookies since about 2007. To expect mid-round picks to come in and start, and be decent, is not realistic.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by shuler82 View Post
    I take the time to give the Jets situation a little context, and this is your smartazz reply?

    It's one thing to get under the cap - it's another to get under the cap and to still have to sign/resign 11 starting positions.

    Sure, we can free up space to be around 15-20 million under, but then we have 11 starters to sign. Do the math... it's not an ideal position.

    As for your other comments insulting me for no reason - GFY
    your "context" makes no sense. you have half the team leaving, but then you also have them coming back.

    some of the stuff straight makes no sense.

    example. soooo do we need to replace him or not?

    Moore - The other starting OG to probably have played his last down as a Jet. His play is declining, but without a viable alternative, the Jets could be offering Moore a one year deal.
    other stuff is just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks. its based on nothing.

    Slauson - After the Jets jerked him around by making him take a paycut and then subbing in Duccase during the season, I dont see any way Slauson is coming back.
    -Landry is going to get paid. The Jets can't afford what he'll demand on the market.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by shuler82 View Post
    First up.. props to Jason423 for getting sourced in the WSJ. He runs a great website.



    Now.. I'm here to rain on your parade a bit.

    Yes, it's true that by cutting Pace, Scott, Jason Smith, Eric Smith and Tebow, the Jets will be under the cap. Add in the roll over in savings from this year, and we could be close to $15 million over. So what's the problem?

    Here's the problem:

    Jets FA


    Defense:
    Landry
    Bell
    Thomas
    Devito

    -Landry is going to get paid. The Jets can't afford what he'll demand on the market.

    -Devito is a guy the Jets should try to resign, but he might land more $$ elsewhere.

    -Thomas won't seem like a big loss if the Jets weren't already cutting Scott and Pace. That's 3/4 of a LB crew gone. It's high possible the Jets bring Scott or Thomas back for 1 year vet min contracts, mainly because they know the system and the team wont be able to afford to bring in starting quality LBs in FA. Davis will need to come in and start next year.

    -Bell is a candidate to come back at a 1 year deal if he still wants to play. Assuming we lose Landry, we need Allen or Bell to step up and start in 2013.


    Offense FA:

    Greene
    Keller
    Slauson
    Moore
    Schillens

    Greene - it's an easy (and popular) opinion to let Greene walk, but that will most likely mean grabbing a RB in the top 3 rounds of the draft to step in and play.

    Keller - If Sanchez is coming back, Keller will probably be given the franchise tag. If not, they could let him walk. Again, the Jets will need to find a starting replacement.

    Slauson - After the Jets jerked him around by making him take a paycut and then subbing in Duccase during the season, I dont see any way Slauson is coming back.

    Moore - The other starting OG to probably have played his last down as a Jet. His play is declining, but without a viable alternative, the Jets could be offering Moore a one year deal.


    Schillens - not a big loss, but the Jets will need to add WR depth whether through a low priced FA or later in the draft.


    To summarize:

    The Jets will have to replace two starting safeties, both outside linebackers, and inside starting linebacker, a rotation DE, both starting guards, their starting RB, starting TE, WR depth, and we haven't even started taking about the QB position..

    The good news is the Jets can get more space by restructuring (or trading) Harris or Cromartie. (or perhaps even Revis) I can't see them wanting to add more years to Holmes or Sanchez's deals to lower their 2013 cap hit... but even if they create another $10-15 million of room, they still have a lot of holes to fill.
    They will be able to sign who they need to. There are ways of structuring contracts so that the cap hit this year is minimal. Next year the cap jumps and over the next 4-5 years we are in great cap shape so pushing more of the salary towards the middle of the contracts won't be a problem. This is why Idzik would be a great candidate. In order to do this Woody would have to be willing to shell out some signing bonuses instead of paying high salaries. But I think he would be willing to do it.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Choon328 View Post
    They will be able to sign who they need to. There are ways of structuring contracts so that the cap hit this year is minimal. Next year the cap jumps and over the next 4-5 years we are in great cap shape so pushing more of the salary towards the middle of the contracts won't be a problem. This is why Idzik would be a great candidate. In order to do this Woody would have to be willing to shell out some signing bonuses instead of paying high salaries. But I think he would be willing to do it.
    The issue is every other team knows this, too. Greene, Moore, Slauson, Bell, Landry and Pouha should be able to get more on the open market than the Jets will be able to pay. Not only that, but they'll all be overpaid, too. We'll see one of them sign for a crazy deal with bloated figures in the middle of the contracts) and say "well I'm glad the Jets didn't match that." But at least three, probably four or five, and maybe all six will be on other teams next year.

  15. #35
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    Here's my plan:

    Projected 2013 Cap $122,000,000

    Projected NY Jets 2013 Cap Number as of now- $141,589,382

    1. Cut Pace----Saves $8,560,000

    2. Cut Scott---Saves $7,150,000

    3. Cut E. Smith---Saves $3,000,000, or take pay cut to $1.0 million for the year. Still good depth to have but at the right price.

    4. Cut J. Smith---Saves $12,000,000

    5. Cut Tebow---Saves $1,531,875 but more importantly a ton of BS

    6. Cut Pouha---Saves $3,833,332

    7. Carry Over $5,000,000 of cap relief from the 2012 cap

    8. Re-work Harris' contract---Extend Harris 1 year and turn $6 million of his 2013 base salary into a signing bonus which gets spread out over the remaining 3 years of his contract. Saves $4,000,000 in 2013. It would still make him cuttable in 2014 if he has a bad year again.

    9. Re-work Mangold' Contract---Turn his 2013 $3 million roster bonus into a signing bonus and that would spread it out over the remaining 5 years of his contract. Saves $2,400,000 in 2013.

    10. Cut Sanchez after June 1st. Saves $0 but well worth it.

    11. How to deal with Cromartie and Revis

    -Extend Cromartie 3 years past his current contract. 3 yrs $33 million $14.5 guaranteed $5 million signing bonus. Spread over the remaining 5 years of his contract would be $1 million pro-rated bonus from 2013-2017.

    -Turn Cromartie's 2013 $7 million base salary into a bonus and spread it over the remaining 5 years. $1.4 million pro-rated bonus from 2013-2017.

    -His pro-rated bonus of $2.3 million from his first contract here would still hit in 2013 and 2014.

    His cap hit for 2013 would be $4.7 million, saving $4.8 million on the cap.

    -Extend Revis for 6 years $78 million, $40 million guaranteed ($13 million annually would be tops in the NFL for CB). $30 million signing bonus. Spread over the life of the contract is $4.28 million per year from 2013-2019.

    -His cap hit for 2013 would rise by $4.28 million.

    -Making all of those moves would basically allow the Jets to keep both for the next 5 years and not take any more of a cap hit in 2013 by doing so.
    All of these moves could save the Jets $47,475,207 on next years cap and I don't think that any of them are unreasonable. Those savings would give the Jets $27,885,825 of cap room in 2013. You have to figure $6 million of that would go to signing draft picks which leaves $21,885,825 for free agents.

    $21,885,825 is a lot of money available to spend on free agents especially if you structure the contracts correctly. So we are not in bad shape at all. And there are many more aggressive maneuvers the GM could make to drop the cap even more. Don't believe the hype.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetsfootballguy View Post
    The issue is every other team knows this, too. Greene, Moore, Slauson, Bell, Landry and Pouha should be able to get more on the open market than the Jets will be able to pay. Not only that, but they'll all be overpaid, too. We'll see one of them sign for a crazy deal with bloated figures in the middle of the contracts) and say "well I'm glad the Jets didn't match that." But at least three, probably four or five, and maybe all six will be on other teams next year.
    Bell will get a one year deal at like $2 million either with the Jets or somewhere else. Landry is the only guy that you mentioned that I would aggressively pursue. The rest are replaceable at a cheaper price for the same production. Pouha is old now and coming off a back injury, his market value has taken a big hit. He won't get a big deal, I would be surprised if he got more then a 1 year offer.

    Besides Landry nobody you listed made any kind of impact beyond being average this year. Let them walk.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-Met57 View Post
    your "context" makes no sense. you have half the team leaving, but then you also have them coming back.

    some of the stuff straight makes no sense.

    example. soooo do we need to replace him or not?


    Wow.. Okay. Let's keep this simple.

    Say the Jets make those cuts that were listed (Pace, Scott, J Smith, E Smith, Tebow)

    Okay.. that saves us a bunch of money. Instead of being 19 million over, we're now about 14 million under.

    Great... BUT -

    That "$14 million" under obviously doesn't include our FAs. That means we either have to resign those FAs, or replace those players. Landry, Bell, Devito, Thomas, Greene, Keller, Slauson and Moore count ZERO dollars against the 2013 cap right now - because they're all FA.

    We have about 11 starting spots to fill between our roster cuts and our own FAs. Whether or not your want to bring back Moore or Devito or Bell or replace them with new players, it's really going to eat into that $14 million of cap space. That's my point.

    The good news is that besides for Landry, Slauson and maybe Devito, the Jets should be able to resign of their own FAs at a reasonable cost.


    other stuff is just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks. its based on nothing.

    Moore's play has been lackluster. He's 33 and on the decline. In any other year, I dont think the Jets bring him back. However since Slauson is also a FA and their backups are Ducasse and ? There's a decent chance the Jets bring him back.

    Slauson is a good NFL guard. He was also a Callahan pick, and Bill isn't here anymore. I wish the Jets keep Slauson, but after they had him take a pay cut last year, and then were taking snaps away from him to put in Ducasse, I don't think he's a lock to come back. There will be a market out there for him.

    Landry is already on the record that he wants to be paid. The Jets got a big discount last year because of Landry's injury and his injury history. Well, he's put together a healthy season, earned a pro bowl birth, and wants a big deal. Do the Jets spend $5 million in 2013 to keep him on the roster with their cap and roster situation? I would be happy, but surprised, if they found a way to bring him back.
    Last edited by shuler82; 01-16-2013 at 12:15 AM.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choon328 View Post
    Here's my plan:


    All of these moves could save the Jets $47,475,207 on next years cap and I don't think that any of them are unreasonable. Those savings would give the Jets $27,885,825 of cap room in 2013. You have to figure $6 million of that would go to signing draft picks which leaves $21,885,825 for free agents.

    $21,885,825 is a lot of money available to spend on free agents especially if you structure the contracts correctly. So we are not in bad shape at all. And there are many more aggressive maneuvers the GM could make to drop the cap even more. Don't believe the hype.
    We're in agreement with what needs to be done.. I think the Cro and Revis' deals that you present are a little more team friendly than what they'd end up receiving, but otherwise, I think this plan is a nice start.

    I will still say that even with the $21 million i cap room, we still have to find/resign 10/11 starters, so we're still not in as great shape as you'd think.

    I do 100% agree that once we get past 2013, the Jets are in fine shape in regards to the cap.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    On that list I cut everyone except Cro and Holmes. Pouha we can resign on the cheap after cutting him. That's what we did with Marvin Jones years ago.
    holMEs is in the lower 48% of recievers yet is getting $45 million to create disharmony and not perform? Why would you keep him? Did you not see him throw the ball to the other side when he got his boo boo?

    We should be able to get 10 upper 50% recievers for what we are paying that POS.

    Bring back Plaxico to teach the pig to shoot himself in the leg so we can be rid of him.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by K-Met57 View Post
    so another words we cant afford to pay anyone, no one wants to play here, and we have no capacity to draft or sign free agents. does that about cover it? you must be one of those guys that knows exactly who our next GM should be
    And just what part of his post was incorrect? Things don't look better just because one wishes they looked better everything he posted is 100% correct.

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