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Thread: 19.4 Million Over The Cap and Only 10 Returning Starters

  1. #1

    19.4 Million Over The Cap and Only 10 Returning Starters

    Time to focus on recent reports and the facts. These are two key things that have been reported by the beat writers of the Jets.

    Let's start with 19.4 million over the cap. By cutting three backups(Tebow,Jason Smith and Eric Smith) and two starters(Calvin Pace and Bart Scott). The Jets will be 12 million dollars under the cap.

    You gotta wonder if John Idzik will be able to restructure the existing deals of any of the Jets players who are under contract for the 2013 season. Extending the deals of players who should be Jets lifers could be a key in freeing up more cap space.

    Next up are the "10 returning starters". This is the reported number by members of the media. Let's list the Jets projected starting lineup if they choose to not re-sign any of their own free agents unrestricted and restricted.

    *QB-Mark Sanchez
    RB-Bilal Powell
    FB-Josh Baker
    *WR-Santonio Holmes
    WR-Jeremy Kerley
    TE-Konrad Reuland
    *LT-D'Brickashaw Ferguson
    LG-Vladimir Ducasse
    *C-Nick Mangold
    RG-Caleb Schlauderaff
    RT-Dennis Landolt

    K-
    *P-Robert Malone

    DE-Quentin Coples
    *NT-Sione Pouha
    *DE-Muhammad Wilkerson
    OLB-Garrett McIntyre
    *ILB-David Harris
    ILB-Demario Davis
    OLB-Ricky Sapp
    *CB-Antonio Cromartie
    *CB-Darrelle Revis
    S-Josh Bush
    S-Antonio Allen

    When you look at this tentative group. You see some natural progressions to the starting lineup. On offense, Jeremy Kerley is technically a starting player whether he is listed as one or not. The fullback position is in better hands than one would think. Josh Baker was coming on strong before being hurt and he and Konrad Reuland are hybrid FB/TE's. On defense, Coples seems primed to take over Mike Devito's spot at DE. Whether or not, ILB Demario Davis is ready for the take over next to Harris remains to be seen but it seems like a natural progression.

    Let's take a look at the 2012 Jets Starting Players who are not under contract for the 2013 season.

    RT-Austin Howard(Restricted)
    RB-Shonn Greene
    FB-Lex Hilliard
    WR-Braylon Edwards
    TE-Dustin Keller
    LG-Matt Slausson
    RG-Brandon Moore
    DE-Mike Devito
    OLB-Calvin Pace(Future Cap Casualty)
    OLB-Bryan Thomas
    ILB-Bart Scott(Future Cap Casualty)
    S-Laron Landry
    S-Yeremiah Bell
    K-Nick Folk

    Barring something unforseen. Austin Howard will be back at RT. Many questions remain at the RB position. It will be interesting to see what type of market exists for Shonn Greene. He would seem to be an ideal tandem back rather than a full time workhorse. Not sure if he fits the new offense anyway. Lex Hilliard is a borderline starter with marginal value. I would love to see Braylon return and team with Kerley, Holmes and Hill. That's a stronger group than what the Jets had in 2012.

    The two biggest question areas on the Jets offense are tight end and offensive guard. Should Dustin Keller return? There will be a market for him. No doubt about it. I could see him landing in St. Louis but he should have plenty of suitors. Not on this list is Jeff Cumberland, who is a restricted free agent and could be back as a starter. Both starting guards are free agents and the replacements are scary. The front office has tried desperately to make something out of Vlad Ducasse and there is really no other option at the other guard spot.

    On defense, Mike Devito is a quality veteran role player but won't be worth what he will be overpaid by a team like Buffalo. Time for new blood at 3 linebacker spots for the Jets. Pace and Thomas have seen better days and the run is over. Rex could push for a Bart Scott return at a reduced rate but it may be time to say goodbye to him as well. The Jets have the best corner trio in the sport but much like the guard position on offense, They have a lot of uncertainty at the safety position. Consider Laron Landry as good as gone. Yeremiah Bell has very little left in the gas tank and may not return despite a solid 2012 campaign. Jets are raw and extremely young at safety.

    Last and certainly least in the minds of some is the kicker spot. Nick Folk wasn't half bad when his kicks weren't being blocked at the line of scrimmage. He could be back to compete with another kicker.

    John Idzik has his work cut out for him. That's for sure. This is going to be an interesting offseason. I credit John Idzik for taking on what is going to be a difficult job and he left a comfortable job to work with a lot of people he is not familiar with.

  2. #2
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    you know, for all the praise tannenbaum got for being a "cap guru", this seems to be arguably the worst situation possible going into an offseason. he just kept pushing back money and he's probably sitting back smiling that this is the situation now.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by heymangold View Post
    you know, for all the praise tannenbaum got for being a "cap guru", this seems to be arguably the worst situation possible going into an offseason. he just kept pushing back money and he's probably sitting back smiling that this is the situation now.
    It's true. Mike Tannebaum had some good moves and some good drafts but the credit card bill is due now.

    Two very good draft choices, Dustin Keller and Darrelle Revis. Looks like the Jets won't be able to franchise Keller or re-sign him and Revis can't be franchised. So either a long term deal gets done or he gets traded because of Tannenbaum's poor handling of that situation.

    The Mark Sanchez extension was by far Mike T's worst move. It was a nonsensical decision. The kind of decision that GM's make when their agent is the same as the players.
    Last edited by LeonM; 01-20-2013 at 02:17 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    Time to focus on recent reports and the facts. These are two key things that have been reported by the beat writers of the Jets.

    Let's start with 19.4 million over the cap. By cutting three backups(Tebow,Jason Smith and Eric Smith) and two starters(Calvin Pace and Bart Scott). The Jets will be 12 million dollars under the cap.

    You gotta wonder if John Idzik will be able to restructure the existing deals of any of the Jets players who are under contract for the 2013 season. Extending the deals of players who should be Jets lifers could be a key in freeing up more cap space.

    Next up are the "10 returning starters". This is the reported number by members of the media. Let's list the Jets projected starting lineup if they choose to not re-sign any of their own free agents unrestricted and restricted.

    *QB-Mark Sanchez
    RB-Bilal Powell
    FB-Josh Baker
    *WR-Santonio Holmes
    WR-Jeremy Kerley
    TE-Konrad Reuland
    *LT-D'Brickashaw Ferguson
    LG-Vladimir Ducasse
    *C-Nick Mangold
    RG-Caleb Schlauderaff
    RT-Dennis Landolt

    K-
    *P-Robert Malone

    DE-Quentin Coples
    *NT-Sione Pouha
    *DE-Muhammad Wilkerson
    OLB-Garrett McIntyre
    *ILB-David Harris
    ILB-Demario Davis
    OLB-Ricky Sapp
    *CB-Antonio Cromartie
    *CB-Darrelle Revis
    S-Josh Bush
    S-Antonio Allen

    When you look at this tentative group. You see some natural progressions to the starting lineup. On offense, Jeremy Kerley is technically a starting player whether he is listed as one or not. The fullback position is in better hands than one would think. Josh Baker was coming on strong before being hurt and he and Konrad Reuland are hybrid FB/TE's. On defense, Coples seems primed to take over Mike Devito's spot at DE. Whether or not, ILB Demario Davis is ready for the take over next to Harris remains to be seen but it seems like a natural progression.

    Let's take a look at the 2012 Jets Starting Players who are not under contract for the 2013 season.

    RT-Austin Howard(Restricted)
    RB-Shonn Greene
    FB-Lex Hilliard
    WR-Braylon Edwards
    TE-Dustin Keller
    LG-Matt Slausson
    RG-Brandon Moore
    DE-Mike Devito
    OLB-Calvin Pace(Future Cap Casualty)
    OLB-Bryan Thomas
    ILB-Bart Scott(Future Cap Casualty)
    S-Laron Landry
    S-Yeremiah Bell
    K-Nick Folk

    Barring something unforseen. Austin Howard will be back at RT. Many questions remain at the RB position. It will be interesting to see what type of market exists for Shonn Greene. He would seem to be an ideal tandem back rather than a full time workhorse. Not sure if he fits the new offense anyway. Lex Hilliard is a borderline starter with marginal value. I would love to see Braylon return and team with Kerley, Holmes and Hill. That's a stronger group than what the Jets had in 2012.

    The two biggest question areas on the Jets offense are tight end and offensive guard. Should Dustin Keller return? There will be a market for him. No doubt about it. I could see him landing in St. Louis but he should have plenty of suitors. Not on this list is Jeff Cumberland, who is a restricted free agent and could be back as a starter. Both starting guards are free agents and the replacements are scary. The front office has tried desperately to make something out of Vlad Ducasse and there is really no other option at the other guard spot.

    On defense, Mike Devito is a quality veteran role player but won't be worth what he will be overpaid by a team like Buffalo. Time for new blood at 3 linebacker spots for the Jets. Pace and Thomas have seen better days and the run is over. Rex could push for a Bart Scott return at a reduced rate but it may be time to say goodbye to him as well. The Jets have the best corner trio in the sport but much like the guard position on offense, They have a lot of uncertainty at the safety position. Consider Laron Landry as good as gone. Yeremiah Bell has very little left in the gas tank and may not return despite a solid 2012 campaign. Jets are raw and extremely young at safety.

    Last and certainly least in the minds of some is the kicker spot. Nick Folk wasn't half bad when his kicks weren't being blocked at the line of scrimmage. He could be back to compete with another kicker.

    John Idzik has his work cut out for him. That's for sure. This is going to be an interesting offseason. I credit John Idzik for taking on what is going to be a difficult job and he left a comfortable job to work with a lot of people he is not familiar with.
    The best way to go here is to draft well the next two years... We need to find at least 7 starters in the next two drafts...Best way to get 4 starters this year would be to trade something of value for a 1st or 2nd round draft choice. Revis or Cromartie are the only two I can think of. You could possibly move Mangold or Brick but I think it is a hell of lot easier to replace a CB than a OL...

    I am not advocating this but it would not surprise me if this is a way out from this mess... Teams get in trouble when they hold on too hard and as they add talent, existing talent either declines or leaves via FA...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conkboy View Post
    The best way to go here is to draft well the next two years... We need to find at least 7 starters in the next two drafts...Best way to get 4 starters this year would be to trade something of value for a 1st or 2nd round draft choice. Revis or Cromartie are the only two I can think of. You could possibly move Mangold or Brick but I think it is a hell of lot easier to replace a CB than a OL...

    I am not advocating this but it would not surprise me if this is a way out from this mess... Teams get in trouble when they hold on too hard and as they add talent, existing talent either declines or leaves via FA...
    How good is this year's draft? Seems rather light, especially on the offensive side of the ball. The Jets' timing re trading for draft picks is not ideal.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Conkboy View Post
    The best way to go here is to draft well the next two years... We need to find at least 7 starters in the next two drafts...Best way to get 4 starters this year would be to trade something of value for a 1st or 2nd round draft choice. Revis or Cromartie are the only two I can think of. You could possibly move Mangold or Brick but I think it is a hell of lot easier to replace a CB than a OL...

    I am not advocating this but it would not surprise me if this is a way out from this mess... Teams get in trouble when they hold on too hard and as they add talent, existing talent either declines or leaves via FA...
    You are making some good points here.

    By doing the roster analysis, You can see where the Jets really need replacements. It's a lot of areas to address through the draft and free agency.

    QB, RB, TE, LG and RG on offense. The other spots in my mind are already on the roster.

    ROLB, LOLB, FS and S on defense.

    By my count. Jets need 8 new starters at these spots if they don't bring anyone like Keller,Greene etc back

    Jets may try to live with Sanchez at starter(Hope not) but these other areas need to be addressed. Tough task for Idzik and yes the draft the next two seasons is the key. In the prefect world, Revis, Harris, Mangold, Ferguson and Cromartie are Jets for life and everyone else is fair game.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    How good is this year's draft? Seems rather light, especially on the offensive side of the ball. The Jets' timing re trading for draft picks is not ideal.
    One factor that is aiding a lot of teams drafting this year is the record amount of underclassmen that have declared or have been granted draft eligibility. That will strengthen the draft pool. This seems like a good draft not a great one but there is always value to be had if you draft well.

    It's been an on going theme really for the last few years. The Jets need a premiere pass rushing outside linebacker on defense. They need a game breaker at the RB position and they need a QB for the future. These 3 spots should be the top targets in the draft.

  8. #8
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    We can get under the cap quite easily, that is not the problem. The problem is the amount of holes we will have once we do and not having the money to fill them.

    It is like 2006 all over again. Lets hope we have a draft like 2006.

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    If the Jets are going to run the WCO with preferrably a zone blocking scheme, i would like to see Caleb Schlauderaff get a shot at one of the guard positions. I would like to see what it was that supposedly caused former OL coach Callahan to ask for this player to start over Brandon Moore.

    Oh and on a lesser note, if u hire a guy to run a position and he makes a suggestion, why not try what he wants. Could this be why Callahan is now the OL coach of the Cowboys.

    I would also like to resign Jason Smith after we release him to an incentive ladden contract and try him at the other OG(LG) position.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by heymangold View Post
    you know, for all the praise tannenbaum got for being a "cap guru", this seems to be arguably the worst situation possible going into an offseason. he just kept pushing back money and he's probably sitting back smiling that this is the situation now.
    $12 mil under the cap before restructuring any contracts doesn't seem that bad to me. We've known for years that Scott and Pace would be cut this year.

  11. #11
    1. Draft at least 3-4 starters (2x Guards, 1X RB and 1x LB)

    2. Sign good mid and low level Free Agents.


    Jets don't need to make any splashy moves we already have superstars on our roster (Revis, Cro) and up and coming Superstars (Wilk, Coples).

  12. #12
    I'm sure during his interview Idzik gave his plan of attack. And apparently, the Jets liked what he had to say and his goal.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    I would also like to resign Jason Smith after we release him to an incentive ladden contract and try him at the other OG(LG) position.
    No. Jason Smith is horrible and would suck in any scheme. That's why the Rams gave up on him. You guys laughed at me when I said he was worse than Wayne Hunter. He absolutely was and always will be.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    No. Jason Smith is horrible and would suck in any scheme. That's why the Rams gave up on him. You guys laughed at me when I said he was worse than Wayne Hunter. He absolutely was and always will be.
    He sucked at LT, but after we cut him i would like to take a look at him at LG . The guy is strong and can move alittle, He's only 6'5", so he's not too tall for the OG spot. What do we have to lose.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    He sucked at LT, but after we cut him i would like to take a look at him at LG . The guy is strong and can move alittle, He's only 6'5", so he's not too tall for the OG spot. What do we have to lose.
    A roster spot and about $700K in cap room when we only have $10 mil total. Ducass > Smith - really.

  16. #16
    How much is Revis' contract this year? Trading him or Cro will also give room.

    We are in rebuilding mode.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    Time to focus on recent reports and the facts. These are two key things that have been reported by the beat writers of the Jets.

    Let's start with 19.4 million over the cap. By cutting three backups(Tebow,Jason Smith and Eric Smith) and two starters(Calvin Pace and Bart Scott). The Jets will be 12 million dollars under the cap.

    You gotta wonder if John Idzik will be able to restructure the existing deals of any of the Jets players who are under contract for the 2013 season. Extending the deals of players who should be Jets lifers could be a key in freeing up more cap space.

    Next up are the "10 returning starters". This is the reported number by members of the media. Let's list the Jets projected starting lineup if they choose to not re-sign any of their own free agents unrestricted and restricted.

    *QB-Mark Sanchez
    RB-Bilal Powell
    FB-Josh Baker
    *WR-Santonio Holmes
    WR-Jeremy Kerley
    TE-Konrad Reuland
    *LT-D'Brickashaw Ferguson
    LG-Vladimir Ducasse
    *C-Nick Mangold
    RG-Caleb Schlauderaff
    RT-Dennis Landolt

    K-
    *P-Robert Malone

    DE-Quentin Coples
    *NT-Sione Pouha
    *DE-Muhammad Wilkerson
    OLB-Garrett McIntyre
    *ILB-David Harris
    ILB-Demario Davis
    OLB-Ricky Sapp
    *CB-Antonio Cromartie
    *CB-Darrelle Revis
    S-Josh Bush
    S-Antonio Allen

    When you look at this tentative group. You see some natural progressions to the starting lineup. On offense, Jeremy Kerley is technically a starting player whether he is listed as one or not. The fullback position is in better hands than one would think. Josh Baker was coming on strong before being hurt and he and Konrad Reuland are hybrid FB/TE's. On defense, Coples seems primed to take over Mike Devito's spot at DE. Whether or not, ILB Demario Davis is ready for the take over next to Harris remains to be seen but it seems like a natural progression.

    Let's take a look at the 2012 Jets Starting Players who are not under contract for the 2013 season.

    RT-Austin Howard(Restricted)
    RB-Shonn Greene
    FB-Lex Hilliard
    WR-Braylon Edwards
    TE-Dustin Keller
    LG-Matt Slausson
    RG-Brandon Moore
    DE-Mike Devito
    OLB-Calvin Pace(Future Cap Casualty)
    OLB-Bryan Thomas
    ILB-Bart Scott(Future Cap Casualty)
    S-Laron Landry
    S-Yeremiah Bell
    K-Nick Folk

    Barring something unforseen. Austin Howard will be back at RT. Many questions remain at the RB position. It will be interesting to see what type of market exists for Shonn Greene. He would seem to be an ideal tandem back rather than a full time workhorse. Not sure if he fits the new offense anyway. Lex Hilliard is a borderline starter with marginal value. I would love to see Braylon return and team with Kerley, Holmes and Hill. That's a stronger group than what the Jets had in 2012.

    The two biggest question areas on the Jets offense are tight end and offensive guard. Should Dustin Keller return? There will be a market for him. No doubt about it. I could see him landing in St. Louis but he should have plenty of suitors. Not on this list is Jeff Cumberland, who is a restricted free agent and could be back as a starter. Both starting guards are free agents and the replacements are scary. The front office has tried desperately to make something out of Vlad Ducasse and there is really no other option at the other guard spot.

    On defense, Mike Devito is a quality veteran role player but won't be worth what he will be overpaid by a team like Buffalo. Time for new blood at 3 linebacker spots for the Jets. Pace and Thomas have seen better days and the run is over. Rex could push for a Bart Scott return at a reduced rate but it may be time to say goodbye to him as well. The Jets have the best corner trio in the sport but much like the guard position on offense, They have a lot of uncertainty at the safety position. Consider Laron Landry as good as gone. Yeremiah Bell has very little left in the gas tank and may not return despite a solid 2012 campaign. Jets are raw and extremely young at safety.

    Last and certainly least in the minds of some is the kicker spot. Nick Folk wasn't half bad when his kicks weren't being blocked at the line of scrimmage. He could be back to compete with another kicker.

    John Idzik has his work cut out for him. That's for sure. This is going to be an interesting offseason. I credit John Idzik for taking on what is going to be a difficult job and he left a comfortable job to work with a lot of people he is not familiar with.
    Agree with your post, but I really dont get the Austin Howard love. He played well the first 5 games or so, and then regressed so badly arguably to even Wayne Hunter level. I wish I could pull the stats for most sacks allowed by a RT this year,but not a pro football focus member.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    Time to focus on recent reports and the facts. These are two key things that have been reported by the beat writers of the Jets.

    Let's start with 19.4 million over the cap. By cutting three backups(Tebow,Jason Smith and Eric Smith) and two starters(Calvin Pace and Bart Scott). The Jets will be 12 million dollars under the cap.

    You gotta wonder if John Idzik will be able to restructure the existing deals of any of the Jets players who are under contract for the 2013 season. Extending the deals of players who should be Jets lifers could be a key in freeing up more cap space.

    Next up are the "10 returning starters". This is the reported number by members of the media. Let's list the Jets projected starting lineup if they choose to not re-sign any of their own free agents unrestricted and restricted.

    *QB-Mark Sanchez
    RB-Bilal Powell
    FB-Josh Baker
    *WR-Santonio Holmes
    WR-Jeremy Kerley
    TE-Konrad Reuland
    *LT-D'Brickashaw Ferguson
    LG-Vladimir Ducasse
    *C-Nick Mangold
    RG-Caleb Schlauderaff
    RT-Dennis Landolt

    K-
    *P-Robert Malone

    DE-Quentin Coples
    *NT-Sione Pouha
    *DE-Muhammad Wilkerson
    OLB-Garrett McIntyre
    *ILB-David Harris
    ILB-Demario Davis
    OLB-Ricky Sapp
    *CB-Antonio Cromartie
    *CB-Darrelle Revis
    S-Josh Bush
    S-Antonio Allen

    When you look at this tentative group. You see some natural progressions to the starting lineup. On offense, Jeremy Kerley is technically a starting player whether he is listed as one or not. The fullback position is in better hands than one would think. Josh Baker was coming on strong before being hurt and he and Konrad Reuland are hybrid FB/TE's. On defense, Coples seems primed to take over Mike Devito's spot at DE. Whether or not, ILB Demario Davis is ready for the take over next to Harris remains to be seen but it seems like a natural progression.

    Let's take a look at the 2012 Jets Starting Players who are not under contract for the 2013 season.

    RT-Austin Howard(Restricted)
    RB-Shonn Greene
    FB-Lex Hilliard
    WR-Braylon Edwards
    TE-Dustin Keller
    LG-Matt Slausson
    RG-Brandon Moore
    DE-Mike Devito
    OLB-Calvin Pace(Future Cap Casualty)
    OLB-Bryan Thomas
    ILB-Bart Scott(Future Cap Casualty)
    S-Laron Landry
    S-Yeremiah Bell
    K-Nick Folk

    Barring something unforseen. Austin Howard will be back at RT. Many questions remain at the RB position. It will be interesting to see what type of market exists for Shonn Greene. He would seem to be an ideal tandem back rather than a full time workhorse. Not sure if he fits the new offense anyway. Lex Hilliard is a borderline starter with marginal value. I would love to see Braylon return and team with Kerley, Holmes and Hill. That's a stronger group than what the Jets had in 2012.

    The two biggest question areas on the Jets offense are tight end and offensive guard. Should Dustin Keller return? There will be a market for him. No doubt about it. I could see him landing in St. Louis but he should have plenty of suitors. Not on this list is Jeff Cumberland, who is a restricted free agent and could be back as a starter. Both starting guards are free agents and the replacements are scary. The front office has tried desperately to make something out of Vlad Ducasse and there is really no other option at the other guard spot.

    On defense, Mike Devito is a quality veteran role player but won't be worth what he will be overpaid by a team like Buffalo. Time for new blood at 3 linebacker spots for the Jets. Pace and Thomas have seen better days and the run is over. Rex could push for a Bart Scott return at a reduced rate but it may be time to say goodbye to him as well. The Jets have the best corner trio in the sport but much like the guard position on offense, They have a lot of uncertainty at the safety position. Consider Laron Landry as good as gone. Yeremiah Bell has very little left in the gas tank and may not return despite a solid 2012 campaign. Jets are raw and extremely young at safety.

    Last and certainly least in the minds of some is the kicker spot. Nick Folk wasn't half bad when his kicks weren't being blocked at the line of scrimmage. He could be back to compete with another kicker.

    John Idzik has his work cut out for him. That's for sure. This is going to be an interesting offseason. I credit John Idzik for taking on what is going to be a difficult job and he left a comfortable job to work with a lot of people he is not familiar with.
    I would resign austin Howard and thats it. The jets will probally get the same results or better if they go without resigning anyone. Lets move on no more keeping all the dead wood. I like to see how Schlauderaff will do if given a chance. Maybe Schlauderaff becomes another Austin Howard. Ilike to see how Davis would look as a full time starter.

  19. #19
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    Not to pile on, but how are you guys not listing RT as a position to be filled? Austin Howard was horrific last season. That being said, I'm still not sold on Slauson and Brandon Moore's probably got another season or two left in him at this point.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjets1969 View Post
    I would resign austin Howard and thats it. The jets will probally get the same results or better if they go without resigning anyone. Lets move on no more keeping all the dead wood. I like to see how Schlauderaff will do if given a chance. Maybe Schlauderaff becomes another Austin Howard. Ilike to see how Davis would look as a full time starter.
    I would resign Howard and either 1 of the safeties. Right now i am leaning towards the former stinking fish Bell. I hate those former Dolphins being on my Jets.

    Oh and Maybe The Kicker if he comes cheap.

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