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Thread: This game shows why you pay Revis

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by McGinley View Post
    Pass rusher > Shutdown corner.

    A shutdown CB can take away a weapon from the QB. A pass rusher can take away a QB from his weapons. Pretty simple.

    I like Revis, but a CB just isn't as important as some think.
    He is if you don't have a pass rush.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    Great?? Like I always say Vinny has more passing yardage and TD's then Montana does that make him great?? It makes him a durable player that had longivity.. Unless you think 14 yds rushing in a AFCCG was a thing of beauty..
    Oh Lawd, who pushed your button?

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    Revis isn't a hall of famer. He plays a speed position and is coming off an ACL tear.

    He can't hold Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey, Aeneas Williams, Deion, or my personal favorite CB of all time, Rod Woodson's collective jocks yet statistically.
    B/c opposing qb's don't throw at him.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by chesapeakejet View Post
    B/c opposing qb's don't throw at him.
    It's largely irrelevant because it is continuously being ignored by the Revis lovers that between Cromartie and Revis you are looking at between 15-20% of your salary cap being locked up in a defensive position.

    If I could trade Darelle Revis right now, in conjunction with my first rounder this year to Kansas City or Jacksonville for their first rounder next year, I would do it in a freaking heartbeat.

    It almost guarantees to net me JaDaveon Clowney or Teddy Bridgewater next year.

    Now follow me here:

    Building a franchise works like this:

    You build up your offensive line and your defensive line, then you move on to QB.

    You build outward from there. You do not invest 20% of your payroll in CB's and wonder why you can can't win any shootouts because your offensive talent (line, QB, or skill positions) is terrible since you couldn't sign anybody.

    Furthermore, if you aren't blitzing and you have the Hand of God playing CB for you eventually the play will break down and all your CB's have to work off it instinct at that point.

    Eventually the wideouts will get open. Hence D-line is a million times more important in this regard.

    Lastly we get to Revis' shortcomings:

    He is not large. He's technically perfect, his technique is absolutely perfect. However, you cannot stick him on Hernandez or Gronkowski.

    Cromartie is faster and larger. Cromartie, if his improvement under Thurman continues, is ultimately more appealing. If he ever develops an iota of tackling skill, he will translate to an awesome safety. This is before we factor in that this guy simply cannot hold out. He has far too many mouths to feed.

    Cromartie is an athletic freak who has improving technique. He will not hold out on this team. He is relatively affordable. Revis has already shown he will hold out and his goal is to be the highest paid defensive player in the league.

    This is a selfish player. This team does not need both of them. Because there's no precedent. The last team to have corners that good were the Niners and Cowboys in the 90s before there was a salary cap...........

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    It's largely irrelevant because it is continuously being ignored by the Revis lovers that between Cromartie and Revis you are looking at between 15-20% of your salary cap being locked up in a defensive position.

    If I could trade Darelle Revis right now, in conjunction with my first rounder this year to Kansas City or Jacksonville for their first rounder next year, I would do it in a freaking heartbeat.

    It almost guarantees to net me JaDaveon Clowney or Teddy Bridgewater next year.

    Now follow me here:

    Building a franchise works like this:

    You build up your offensive line and your defensive line, then you move on to QB.

    You build outward from there. You do not invest 20% of your payroll in CB's and wonder why you can can't win any shootouts because your offensive talent (line, QB, or skill positions) is terrible since you couldn't sign anybody.

    Furthermore, if you aren't blitzing and you have the Hand of God playing CB for you eventually the play will break down and all your CB's have to work off it instinct at that point.

    Eventually the wideouts will get open. Hence D-line is a million times more important in this regard.

    Lastly we get to Revis' shortcomings:

    He is not large. He's technically perfect, his technique is absolutely perfect. However, you cannot stick him on Hernandez or Gronkowski.

    Cromartie is faster and larger. Cromartie, if his improvement under Thurman continues, is ultimately more appealing. If he ever develops an iota of tackling skill, he will translate to an awesome safety. This is before we factor in that this guy simply cannot hold out. He has far too many mouths to feed.

    Cromartie is an athletic freak who has improving technique. He will not hold out on this team. He is relatively affordable. Revis has already shown he will hold out and his goal is to be the highest paid defensive player in the league.

    This is a selfish player. This team does not need both of them. Because there's no precedent. The last team to have corners that good were the Niners and Cowboys in the 90s before there was a salary cap...........
    I understand where you are coming from but don't entirely agree. However, on the field Revis does not have any shortcomings.... He consistently shuts down whoever you put him on . From time to time someone has a big play or decent game but that is the exception. To say he can't cover a guy like Gronk is not fair. He has never been asked to. Calvin Johnson is a beast and he covers him. Revis is one of the best CBs to ever play the game. He tackles and covers... What the Jets do with him will make for interesting discussion...

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by jetglass View Post
    I used to think that way but I changed my mind and politely disagree.


    In my opinion:

    Great pass rush>great secondary

    Great individual corner>great individual pass rusher

    Revis takes away your best receiver no matter what. There is no way around that. Put that receiver in motion and he will still cover him. To stop a great pass rusher, there are numerous possible solutions to eliminate or at least alleviate his destruction on your offense; have your QB frequently roll out to the other side, double team him with two linemen, double team him with a RB, double team him with a tight end etc...
    I guess you don't play much chess. Revis and the #1 WR neutralize each other. The winner is the person who recognizes that ahead of time and plans for it. No NFL OC is going to forget to plan for Revis. If you're paying Revis 13-15 million as some here have said you have far less to spend on the other ten starters and the depth behind them.

    As you said a great pass rush is better then a great secondary. Well, you can't pay for a great pass rush if you're spending most of your money on your great secondary. Which held its own without Revis this season.

    When your faced with losing Revis for nothing you get what you can to accelerate rebuilding. With the cap problems the Jets have and the talent problems the Jets have and the staffing problems the Jets are dealing with 2013 is not a year that you should expect the Jets to make a run. So there is no need for an elite shut down corner that is going to leave in a year anyway.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by chesapeakejet View Post
    Oh Lawd, who pushed your button?
    PMarsico9 brought it up not I..

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    It's largely irrelevant because it is continuously being ignored by the Revis lovers that between Cromartie and Revis you are looking at between 15-20% of your salary cap being locked up in a defensive position.

    If I could trade Darelle Revis right now, in conjunction with my first rounder this year to Kansas City or Jacksonville for their first rounder next year, I would do it in a freaking heartbeat.

    It almost guarantees to net me JaDaveon Clowney or Teddy Bridgewater next year.

    Now follow me here:

    Building a franchise works like this:

    You build up your offensive line and your defensive line, then you move on to QB.

    You build outward from there. You do not invest 20% of your payroll in CB's and wonder why you can can't win any shootouts because your offensive talent (line, QB, or skill positions) is terrible since you couldn't sign anybody.

    Furthermore, if you aren't blitzing and you have the Hand of God playing CB for you eventually the play will break down and all your CB's have to work off it instinct at that point.

    Eventually the wideouts will get open. Hence D-line is a million times more important in this regard.

    Lastly we get to Revis' shortcomings:

    He is not large. He's technically perfect, his technique is absolutely perfect. However, you cannot stick him on Hernandez or Gronkowski.

    Cromartie is faster and larger. Cromartie, if his improvement under Thurman continues, is ultimately more appealing. If he ever develops an iota of tackling skill, he will translate to an awesome safety. This is before we factor in that this guy simply cannot hold out. He has far too many mouths to feed.

    Cromartie is an athletic freak who has improving technique. He will not hold out on this team. He is relatively affordable. Revis has already shown he will hold out and his goal is to be the highest paid defensive player in the league.

    This is a selfish player. This team does not need both of them. Because there's no precedent. The last team to have corners that good were the Niners and Cowboys in the 90s before there was a salary cap...........
    From your lips to God's ears.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by chesapeakejet View Post
    He is if you don't have a pass rush.
    We don't have a QB, #1 WR, RB, etc. either. Why ignore all that and just throw more money at a CB we don't even need?

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop24 View Post
    Revis will be a jet for life .. The sooner you realize this the sooner you stop with the stupid trade revis for a bag of chips threads..

    People claim it's a passing game but you don't need a CB? Or may fav Corner is not a premium position yet every year teams draft CB's in the top 10 of the draft ..

    Fact is 95% on this board don't have a clue when it comes to cap , don't know what Revis will command and have no idea how his contract will be structured.

    So it's just all talk coming from y'all ass

    Then u have pats fans chiming in saying we should trade him this from the same team that traded for Talib? Bet you wished you had a better CBs out there every time Smith and Bolden gashed you with big plays one after another .
    We're talking about a team with a Future HOF at QB in place already and adding a CB, vs a team with an All-World CB with a bottom tier starting QB. CB's are pieces you add to a championship team, not players who you try to build championship teams around.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by McGinley View Post
    Except that, you know...it does happen?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dRz9WCgXRU

    I don't see how a quarter of a game = PAY REVIS WHATEVER HE WANTS DOE!
    lol.

    Tedd Ginn "Burs" Revis.


    @ the youtube f*ck who can't figure out how to edit titles.

    Bud Light salutes him.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop24 View Post

    People claim it's a passing game but you don't need a CB?

    Fact is 95% on this board don't have a clue when it comes to cap , don't know what Revis will command and have no idea how his contract will be structured.

    So it's just all talk coming from y'all ass
    .
    I'll start in reverse order.

    Right back at ya.

    We do know what Revis will command. Too much. I think his two documented holdouts and previous quotes on what he deserves are plenty to make a sound judgement on. The cap is not mysterious you can play games with the structuring in the end you will pay. See jets current cap situation.

    It is a passing game and you don't need A CB you need multiple CBs. You also need a deep roster. What you don't need is one megastar cb whose salary makes it much harder to field a deep and talented roster.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardTodd27 View Post
    Huh??????
    Stopping a shut down CB is as easy as it gets. Just don't throw to the WR he's covering. It's done all the time.
    Shutting down a great pass rusher is a different story. You make it sound like it's no problem to just double team or roll the QB away from the pocket. Sure, it's no big deal to give your QB less options to throw too (by using a te or rb to help block) or take away half the field (by rolling the QB out of the pocket).
    Jetglass, you need to rethink your post.


    Of course its a problem to adjust your game plan (having less receiving options, taking away half the field), but at least its possible. In terms of not throwing to your best receiver, it all sounds great in theory, but a lot of these teams are not the same if they have their best receiver taken away. Not so easy for the Texans to win without Andre, Lions without Calvin, colts without Wayne etc. Some of the teams with multiple very good receivers would also also have a lot more trouble winning if you were to take out one of their major receiving threats for the game like the Falcons, Packers, and Patriots.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanMadman View Post
    I guess you don't play much chess. Revis and the #1 WR neutralize each other. The winner is the person who recognizes that ahead of time and plans for it. No NFL OC is going to forget to plan for Revis. If you're paying Revis 13-15 million as some here have said you have far less to spend on the other ten starters and the depth behind them.

    As you said a great pass rush is better then a great secondary. Well, you can't pay for a great pass rush if you're spending most of your money on your great secondary. Which held its own without Revis this season.

    When your faced with losing Revis for nothing you get what you can to accelerate rebuilding. With the cap problems the Jets have and the talent problems the Jets have and the staffing problems the Jets are dealing with 2013 is not a year that you should expect the Jets to make a run. So there is no need for an elite shut down corner that is going to leave in a year anyway.
    Having Revis and his contract does not preclude us from spending on a great pass rush. You can have both. But you cant also have ridiculous contracts for a qb (sanchez) lb (Harris), and wr (holmes).

  15. #155
    also, revis can really only take one guy out of the game at a time. a pass rusher may be doubled and take two offensive players out of the picture. the jets should really think about trading revis if the deal is right.

    Quote Originally Posted by McGinley View Post
    Pass rusher > Shutdown corner.

    A shutdown CB can take away a weapon from the QB. A pass rusher can take away a QB from his weapons. Pretty simple.

    I like Revis, but a CB just isn't as important as some think.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    It's largely irrelevant because it is continuously being ignored by the Revis lovers that between Cromartie and Revis you are looking at between 15-20% of your salary cap being locked up in a defensive position.

    If I could trade Darelle Revis right now, in conjunction with my first rounder this year to Kansas City or Jacksonville for their first rounder next year, I would do it in a freaking heartbeat.

    It almost guarantees to net me JaDaveon Clowney or Teddy Bridgewater next year.

    Now follow me here:

    Building a franchise works like this:

    You build up your offensive line and your defensive line, then you move on to QB.

    You build outward from there. You do not invest 20% of your payroll in CB's and wonder why you can can't win any shootouts because your offensive talent (line, QB, or skill positions) is terrible since you couldn't sign anybody.

    Furthermore, if you aren't blitzing and you have the Hand of God playing CB for you eventually the play will break down and all your CB's have to work off it instinct at that point.

    Eventually the wideouts will get open. Hence D-line is a million times more important in this regard.

    Lastly we get to Revis' shortcomings:

    He is not large. He's technically perfect, his technique is absolutely perfect. However, you cannot stick him on Hernandez or Gronkowski.

    Cromartie is faster and larger. Cromartie, if his improvement under Thurman continues, is ultimately more appealing. If he ever develops an iota of tackling skill, he will translate to an awesome safety. This is before we factor in that this guy simply cannot hold out. He has far too many mouths to feed.

    Cromartie is an athletic freak who has improving technique. He will not hold out on this team. He is relatively affordable. Revis has already shown he will hold out and his goal is to be the highest paid defensive player in the league.

    This is a selfish player. This team does not need both of them. Because there's no precedent. The last team to have corners that good were the Niners and Cowboys in the 90s before there was a salary cap...........
    Is DWC your little brother?

  17. #157
    Look, let me put it this way:

    The rules of the NFL have changed. If you take the teams back to the Tampa Bay Bucs in 2002-03 that have all won Super Bowls, the only one you can argue was defense first were the Steelers.

    And even then, how many lockdown corners did those Steelers teams have?

    Not even 1. They had a crazy ballhawking Safety and brought insane pressure.

    They didn't need lockdown corners. There was no time for a QB to get to read 3.

    The only other example is the Giants, honestly. They aren't a true offensive juggernaut (although I feel Eli Manning is extremely underrated by just about everybody.) Their best facet has been their D-line. Guess what? It didn't show up this year!

    Look what happened? No playoffs. Before you tell me Eli had a bad year well let's take a look at that: almost 4000 yards, 59.9% completion percentage. His d was bad this year. Just straight up bad. Just to put that in reference, Joe Montana had zero 3900 yard seasons. "The game has changed." Sure. Doesn't change the fact that the D-line showing up at all changes everything.

    I mean you can look at what I would consider the consistently elite teams in the NFL over the past decade and see that nearly every single one of them had a pass rush in some fashion.

    It's not really hard to understand. Getting the guys and scouting the steals like Elvis Dumervil is the tough part, but there's no mystery to this.

    1) You build up solid lines. You don't need a pro bowler at every line position.

    2) You have to have a QB capable of carrying an offense or skill position players to make up the difference. What I mean here is you can have Joe Flacco but you sure as hell better have Ray Rice. You can have Drew Brees then you don't need as much invested into your skill positions. New Orleans RB's are a great example.

    3) You need a pass rusher. This year is no different. Suggs on the Raves, Smith on the Niners.

    4) After this you can customize based on your image for the team. In Rex's system a GM has to put his foot down and say "I'm not spending 21 million a year on CB's." But you can give Rex the one CB he wants and then look at the draft after that (Wilson.) This is where I'm beginning to doubt Rex's system. If he needs two top flight corners and it comes at the expense of a game breaking pass rusher, then I'd be happy to usher Rex right out the door.
    Last edited by PMarsico9; 01-21-2013 at 06:44 PM.

  18. #158
    I just can't fathom how anyone could have watched the playoffs this year and come away thinking "yeah, these games are why I'm so glad we have Revis!" Teams were scoring 30+ points all over the place on defenses far better than our (even with Revis). You don't waste money on defensive free agents, you draft them, get all the use out of their rookie contracts, then draft another. All the big money spent belongs on the offensive side of the ball. If you don't have an offense that can put up 30 points with relative ease no matter how good the D is, you're gonna lose.

  19. #159
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    How many times does it need to be said that Revis has no trade value that's of any consequence to the Jets. An expensive, injured player on a one-year deal - in the real world, perhaps you get a 2nd-rounder.

    The argument everyone wants to make has nothing to do with Revis, it's really about if a team should spend X on a defensive player. So, we can just have this argument 12 months from now because Revis isn't going anywhere.

    That's life: when you (happen to) draft a great player, eventually they get expensive. Idzik is going to have to make the call.

    And people should understand what a 'cap guy' means - because I personally think it goes much deeper than someone who can add numbers up. I think a good cap guy sees the interface of budget/spending/talent and 'gets' the notion of who to pay when and how much - all within the context of what the team needs to be successful. So - let's give Idzik a chance before bemoaning his perceived lack of personnel skills. We don't just need a Bert Sugar-like insider around here chomping on a cigar and going on about his gut on a guy - someone actually has to see clearly the real ramifications of the game.

    For all his 'cap-guy' status, Tanny clearly lost the thread. Hopefully ownership was perceptive enough to notice and it's one reason we have Idzik - hybrid cap guy - in as someone seemingly qualified to clean up this mess.

  20. #160
    In the reality of the hard cap, it's all about bang for the buck. The most successful franchises in history have consistently let players walk when they were too expensive.

    Walsh's 49ers, the Steelers, and now the Pats.

    The only position that evades this is QB, and even the 9ers let Montana go for Young....and won another. THat's assuming you have a real franchise QB, not one you're hoping will be.

    Revis plays this year, and then we evaluate. If he chooses money over the Jets, so be it. If this is not the year for this team, and likely it's not, you deal with the situation aggressively, and that may mean trading him.

    Where the Jets are, you don't put one player above the team. You only work to keep franchise guys when you are a real team. The Jets are not that now.

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