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Thread: I thought you needed an elite QB to win a championship?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    flacco's performance this playoff run reminds me of a young mark sanchez
    You're joking, but if you recall the catches that playmakers like Edwards and Holmes made, you're not far off.

    Tonight's sadness is what might have happened if Sanchez was handled better and the O reloaded better.

    SAR I

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    flacco's performance this playoff run reminds me of a young mark sanchez
    Your analysis of football is lacking if that is truly the case.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Above all else, the New NFL requires playmaking WR's and TE's. If you look at the Kapernick and Flacco TD's, very few were of the easy-peasy variety. More often than not you're seeing fanastic catches with very tight coverage (Boldin) gutsy balls-out physicality (Pitta) explosiveness (Crabtree, Jones in a losing effort).

    The QB's are critical, obviously, but tonight's loss for the Patriots is as much on their feeble WR's as it is on their lousy D.

    SAR I
    true championship teams can make big plays on both sides of the ball... defense wins playoff games

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    You're joking, but if you recall the catches that playmakers like Edwards and Holmes made, you're not far off.

    Tonight's sadness is what might have happened if Sanchez was handled better and the O reloaded better.

    SAR I
    I'm actually not joking. mark's playoff numbers are the only reason I still support giving him another shot next year... the kid can ball in big games when he's got a good team around him

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Kaepernick is only making his 10th start coming up, but assuming the Niners win, his level of play suggests he is quite elite.
    The famous circular reasoning - if a QB wins the Super Bowl, he is elite.

  6. #26
    Flacco is not elite, but he's very good and getting better. Top 10.

    If the Jets had a Flacco, we're a 10 win team in 2012. And a 4-time Playoff Team under Rex Ryan, even with the declining and againg defense of late.

    Flacco's turnovers: 12, 12, 10, 10, 12

    Sanchez's Turnovers: 20, 13, 18, 18

    Sanchez averages almost 11 fumbles a season (most of them lost, many for 6 the other way). Flacco, 9, with fewer lost.

    I assure you, those 5-12 extra turnovers Sanchez hands over makes a big difference.

    Flacco's lifetime Comp % is 60.5%. Sanchez's is 55.1% 5% doesn't sound like much, but it's huge.

    Completion Percentage and turnovers are two differences between a busted jag and a Super Bowl quarterback.

    Raven's have one. We don't.

    Any "rebuild" of our Jets cannot begin till we rid ourselves of Sanchez, or Sanchez VASTLY and INSTANTLY improves himself to a 60% passer with less than 15 total turnovers a year.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ohio State NY Jets fan View Post
    Flacco was 21 of 36 for 240 yards with 3 TD's and 0 interceptions

    not sure what the QB rating is but stats are above average in the NFL
    mark sanchez @ NE jan 2011
    16/25 - 64.0% 194 yards 3TD 0 INT

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    true championship teams can make big plays on both sides of the ball... defense wins playoff games
    We don't have that either, our D is in worse shape than Mark Sanchez.

    Are you trying to make me feel bad? I'm depressed enough.

    SAR I

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Above all else, the New NFL requires playmaking WR's and TE's. If you look at the Kapernick and Flacco TD's, very few were of the easy-peasy variety. More often than not you're seeing fanastic catches with very tight coverage (Boldin) gutsy balls-out physicality (Pitta) explosiveness (Crabtree, Jones in a losing effort).

    The QB's are critical, obviously, but tonight's loss for the Patriots is as much on their feeble WR's as it is on their lousy D.

    SAR I
    I agree with you, to a certain extent. You need good WRs. But, the teams with the Pro Bowl WRs lost today. Julio Jones and Roddy White was the best WR duo playing today. They lost. The other team had Crabtree (who is NOT explosive) and an almost 36 year old Randy Moss. Boldin nor Smith cracked 1000 yards this year. Wes Welker did.

    Braylon Edwards-Jerricho Cotchery-Santonio Holmes was certainly good enough to get the job done. Why that was broken up, I'm not sure.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    I'm actually not joking. mark's playoff numbers are the only reason I still support giving him another shot next year... the kid can ball in big games when he's got a good team around him
    He obviously has the ability to do good things. I just haven't seen someone fall so far from where he was. He played well in the playoffs, but has since seemed to forget how to play QB

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Flacco is not elite, but he's very good and getting better. Top 10.

    If the Jets had a Flacco, we're a 10 win team in 2012. And a 4-time Playoff Team under Rex Ryan, even with the declining and againg defense of late.

    Flacco's turnovers: 12, 12, 10, 10, 12

    Sanchez's Turnovers: 20, 13, 18, 18

    Sanchez averages almost 11 fumbles a season (most of them lost, many for 6 the other way). Flacco, 9, with fewer lost.

    I assure you, those 5-12 extra turnovers Sanchez hands over makes a big difference.

    Flacco's lifetime Comp % is 60.5%. Sanchez's is 55.1% 5% doesn't sound like much, but it's huge.

    Completion Percentage and turnovers are two differences between a busted jag and a Super Bowl quarterback.

    Raven's have one. We don't.

    Any "rebuild" of our Jets cannot begin till we rid ourselves of Sanchez, or Sanchez VASTLY and INSTANTLY improves himself to a 60% passer with less than 15 total turnovers a year.
    Very sensible post. Flacco has consistently been a better performer than Sanchez (by the numbers). And I appreciate your last statement. Sanchez might improve...and I'd be thrilled to see it. Until we have a better option, he's our guy and we have to root for him to turn things around.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by detectivekimble View Post
    I agree with you, to a certain extent. You need good WRs. But, the teams with the Pro Bowl WRs lost today. Julio Jones and Roddy White was the best WR duo playing today. They lost. The other team had Crabtree (who is NOT explosive) and an almost 36 year old Randy Moss. Boldin nor Smith cracked 1000 yards this year. Wes Welker did.

    Braylon Edwards-Jerricho Cotchery-Santonio Holmes was certainly good enough to get the job done. Why that was broken up, I'm not sure.
    Agree, but saying that in Championship games and Super Bowls often that little 'extra' that makes all the difference are fantastic WR's who make great catches.

    Santonio for Pittsburgh. All the Giants for Manning. The Santonio catch to beat the Patriots was a thing of beauty too.

    The Patriots have Tom Brady but refuse to give him world-class WR's. Possession guys, great. TE's off the charts. But WR's? Nope.

    SAR I

  13. #33
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    Kapernick has had more good games in nine starts than Mark Sanchez's has in his entire career. This guy is going to be great, if he isn't already.

    Flacco is starting to pull it together in this postseason. He never had the consistency, but seems like he's getting there. He is not elite, but he is at least a pretty good starting QB in this league.

    Anyone suggesting that Kapernick and Flacco prove that Sanchez is good enough to win in this league needs to go back and watch the tape.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    He put the ball up high for Boldin a few times and a borderline HoF WR made some great plays. There was also zero pass rush. Flacco is good, borderline top 10, but let's not overrreact
    Agree, he may not be an elite QB but his stats in the AFCCG today were greater than just a game manager QB

    have to have at least a good QB

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by detectivekimble View Post
    I agree with you, to a certain extent. You need good WRs. But, the teams with the Pro Bowl WRs lost today. Julio Jones and Roddy White was the best WR duo playing today. They lost. The other team had Crabtree (who is NOT explosive) and an almost 36 year old Randy Moss. Boldin nor Smith cracked 1000 yards this year. Wes Welker did.

    Braylon Edwards-Jerricho Cotchery-Santonio Holmes was certainly good enough to get the job done. Why that was broken up, I'm not sure.
    'The other team' also had Vernon Davis. He only had 106 yards receiving and 1 TD. Kind of a big oversight there.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by jpoppy7 View Post
    The famous circular reasoning - if a QB wins the Super Bowl, he is elite.
    No it's actually his individual play. His first start he shredded a very good Bears D. He's since then shredded good teams with his arm and legs. He set the all-time record for rushing yards by a QB in a game last week. This week he completed 16 of 21 passes. He's doing great things, and in some cases, uncommon things

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by JetsfanfromtheBURGH View Post
    He obviously has the ability to do good things. I just haven't seen someone fall so far from where he was. He played well in the playoffs, but has since seemed to forget how to play QB
    People forget how weak and coddled Sanchez was during the regular seasons those first two years. How he had to be imited to almost a high-school level offense to even manage the NFL game.

    Did he play well in the post thos two years? Sure did. We all bought in then.

    Was he great though during ANY of his four regular seasons? Nope. He's the worst QB in the NFL over that period in the regular season. By a wide margin.

    Without those fleeting playoff games, Sanchez is almost a textbook bust 1st rounder at the QB position, a guy for whom the game is too fats, too complex and too tough on his fragile confidence.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    mark sanchez @ NE jan 2011
    16/25 - 64.0% 194 yards 3TD 0 INT
    Nice

    and a big reason he was the Sanchise but that seems like such a long time ago

    his contract will probably give him another chance

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    People forget how weak and coddled Sanchez was during the regular seasons those first two years. How he had to be imited to almost a high-school level offense to even manage the NFL game.

    Did he play well in the post thos two years? Sure did. We all bought in then.

    Was he great though during ANY of his four regular seasons? Nope. He's the worst QB in the NFL over that period in the regular season. By a wide margin.

    Without those fleeting playoff games, Sanchez is almost a textbook bust 1st rounder at the QB position, a guy for whom the game is too fats, too complex and too tough on his fragile confidence.
    but you can't take away those games... and contrary to popular belief losing talent at WR, RB, and OL doesn't help to develop your young QB

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Agree, but saying that in Championship games and Super Bowls often that little 'extra' that makes all the difference are fantastic WR's who make great catches.

    Santonio for Pittsburgh. All the Giants for Manning. The Santonio catch to beat the Patriots was a thing of beauty too.

    The Patriots have Tom Brady but refuse to give him world-class WR's. Possession guys, great. TE's off the charts. But WR's? Nope.

    SAR I
    The two teams we saw today are built similarly to the 2010 Jets. The difference is that they have better/more experienced QB play. That's why I can't say Rex Ryan's philosophy is wrong. What the Jets need is better PLAYERS. It's really not that complicated.

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