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Thread: Mark Sanchez will be our #1 QB in 2013

  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by JaxSuzy View Post
    And so it begins.

    Same old thing.
    Mike Westhoff yesterday at New Orleans:

    “There were times where we lined up with guys [last season] where I didn’t know their names,” Westhoff said Wednesday while attending Super Bowl festivities. “Guys were banged up. To me, that’s the whole key. Just like he got an inordinate amount of credit, he absorbed an inordinate amount of blame. I don’t think that’s fair to him. I think he is salvageable, but you’re going to have to build things back up. You have to run the ball. He has to be built back up.”

    Westhoff said when the Jets went to the AFC Championship games in 2009 and 2010, the team had the right mix around Sanchez with a good running game, good defense and good special teams.

    “I’m not necessarily a believer that he regressed,” Westhoff said. “I think the first two years when we went to the AFC Championship Game, we were a very good overall football team. … Mark was part of that package. That package dissipated just as much as Mark did. I think sometimes he gets the burden thrust on him. I don’t think there was any drastic difference in Mark. I just think the whole thing wasn’t as good and there was more pressure put on him.”

    SAR I

  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Mike Westhoff yesterday at New Orleans:

    “There were times where we lined up with guys [last season] where I didn’t know their names,” Westhoff said Wednesday while attending Super Bowl festivities. “Guys were banged up. To me, that’s the whole key. Just like he got an inordinate amount of credit, he absorbed an inordinate amount of blame. I don’t think that’s fair to him. I think he is salvageable, but you’re going to have to build things back up. You have to run the ball. He has to be built back up.”

    Westhoff said when the Jets went to the AFC Championship games in 2009 and 2010, the team had the right mix around Sanchez with a good running game, good defense and good special teams.

    “I’m not necessarily a believer that he regressed,” Westhoff said. “I think the first two years when we went to the AFC Championship Game, we were a very good overall football team. … Mark was part of that package. That package dissipated just as much as Mark did. I think sometimes he gets the burden thrust on him. I don’t think there was any drastic difference in Mark. I just think the whole thing wasn’t as good and there was more pressure put on him.”

    SAR I

    Good thing he was a st coach his entire career .....

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

  3. #323
    God you have to wonder if these coaches even watch game film. I am not willing to blame Mark for any more the he is responsible for.
    Missing wide open receivers , over throwing wide open receivers, throwing the ball to far left or right of wide open receivers. His accuracy is beyond bad, even when he has " top talent" around him. How many more times do you need to see wide open guys making acrobatic catches to bring in Mark passes. His inability to hold on to the ball when being sacked. His extremely poor decision making in the red zone.
    Does anyone else wonder why some people within and out of the organization both players and coaches have mixed feelings about Mark. Does the fact that an effort was made last year to bring in Manning speak volumes about how within the Jets they see what Mark's future with the Jets will be.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by fltflo View Post
    God you have to wonder if these coaches even watch game film. I am not willing to blame Mark for any more the he is responsible for.
    Missing wide open receivers , over throwing wide open receivers, throwing the ball to far left or right of wide open receivers. His accuracy is beyond bad, even when he has " top talent" around him. How many more times do you need to see wide open guys making acrobatic catches to bring in Mark passes. His inability to hold on to the ball when being sacked. His extremely poor decision making in the red zone.
    Does anyone else wonder why some people within and out of the organization both players and coaches have mixed feelings about Mark. Does the fact that an effort was made last year to bring in Manning speak volumes about how within the Jets they see what Mark's future with the Jets will be.
    Let me understand this:

    We should trust the collective voices of a bunch of disappointed Jets fans on a whiny discussion forum instead of a hall of fame assistant head coach, the head coach, defensive leaders, and other players in the locker room?

    How about we trust the experts here, the professionals in the locker room with absolutely nothing to gain by propping up a quarterback. They believe unilaterally that Mark's problem has nothing to do with his own abilities but rather the lack of talent around him.

    That's actually good news for the organization if it's true, wrap your brain around that.

    SAR I

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post

    They believe unilaterally that Mark's problem has nothing to do with his own abilities but rather the lack of talent around him.
    You could insert Sanchez into the Pats, Saints or Packers offense and he'd still barely complete 50% of his passes and still have more turnovers than TD passes.

    Sorry SAR, Sanchez does not possess the skills to be a good NFL QB.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    You could insert Sanchez into the Pats, Saints or Packers offense and he'd still barely complete 50% of his passes and still have more turnovers than TD passes.

    Sorry SAR, Sanchez does not possess the skills to be a good NFL QB.
    There's just no way you can prove that . Its like me saying you put Brady in the Jets offense and he'd be a 50% passer and go fetal so many times he'd climb back into the womb.

    No one knows what Sanchez could do in that type of offense, we haven't seen a offense that allows him to be anything but ordinary at best.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    You could insert Sanchez into the Pats, Saints or Packers offense and he'd still barely complete 50% of his passes and still have more turnovers than TD passes.

    Sorry SAR, Sanchez does not possess the skills to be a good NFL QB.
    Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers.

    No one compared Mark Sanchez to these elite quarterbacks either while in college, going thru the combine, after being drafted, or after winning a few playoff games. What they said was that Mark is a very good quarterback who can be successful and win games in Rex Ryan's system.

    Since Rex Ryan is still our head coach, Mark Sanchez still has the opportunity to flourish so long as they get him some playmakers back. The moment Don Coryell decides to coach the Jets we will have a big problem. Not the case right now.

    SAR I

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    There's just no way you can prove that . Its like me saying you put Brady in the Jets offense and he'd be a 50% passer and go fetal so many times he'd climb back into the womb.

    No one knows what Sanchez could do in that type of offense, we haven't seen a offense that allows him to be anything but ordinary at best.
    +1

    As always, very good points and very rational.

    We haven't had a chance to see the real Mark Sanchez.

    The first two years he was a 22-year-old who didn't have a chance to learn on the job; he was thrown straight into the fire and performed very well, considering.

    The next two years he was stripped of every offense of playmaker, lost his best wide receivers, had a tight end who couldn't stay healthy, lost his dump-off back, and had an offensive line that betrayed him. Not to mention, two offensive coordinator's last two seasons, and the Tim Tebow distraction.

    There's a good chance that Mark Sanchez is done. There is also a good chance that Mark Sanchez needs some help and will return to solid NFL quarterback status and then grow from there. Let's find out.

    SAR I

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    +1

    As always, very good points and very rational.

    We haven't had a chance to see the real Mark Sanchez.

    The first two years he was a 22-year-old who didn't have a chance to learn on the job; he was thrown straight into the fire and performed very well, considering.

    The next two years he was stripped of every offense of playmaker, lost his best wide receivers, had a tight end who couldn't stay healthy, lost his dump-off back, and had an offensive line that betrayed him. Not to mention, two offensive coordinator's last two seasons, and the Tim Tebow distraction.

    There's a good chance that Mark Sanchez is done. There is also a good chance that Mark Sanchez needs some help and will return to solid NFL quarterback status and then grow from there. Let's find out.

    SAR I

    Even if you take away his inaccuracy and put that blame on the receivers and you allow that our OC was terrible and the running game was bad, where do the turnovers fall?

    Did we have such bad skill players in 2011 when holmes and keller were healthy? Because he was still a turnover machine.

    Maybe you can blame the line for sacks, but who gets the blame for the RIDICULOUS amount of fumbles he had? Or his inability to know when to thrown the ball away.

    Every defender of sanchez mentions his "talent", and there is no denying that, but the guy has zero football intellect and feel for the game. He didnt have it as a rookie and he doesnt have it after 4 seasons being a starter. Throwing the ball away and covering the football when you take a sack are BASIC principles that he simply doesnt get.

    I think he should improve with the MM offense, lets all pray its as our backup.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Even if you take away his inaccuracy and put that blame on the receivers and you allow that our OC was terrible and the running game was bad, where do the turnovers fall?

    Did we have such bad skill players in 2011 when holmes and keller were healthy? Because he was still a turnover machine.

    Maybe you can blame the line for sacks, but who gets the blame for the RIDICULOUS amount of fumbles he had? Or his inability to know when to thrown the ball away.

    Every defender of sanchez mentions his "talent", and there is no denying that, but the guy has zero football intellect and feel for the game. He didnt have it as a rookie and he doesnt have it after 4 seasons being a starter. Throwing the ball away and covering the football when you take a sack are BASIC principles that he simply doesnt get.

    I think he should improve with the MM offense, lets all pray its as our backup.
    Again can't argue with you on the fumble aspect, he absolutely needs to protect the ball better. Can it be learned , perhaps. Seems like technique changes helped Tiki Barber, maybe something similiar in the way Sanchez grips the ball might help.

    The rest of it I'll still contend is a manifestation of the offense and lack of playmakers. Sanchez, forced way too many throws out of desperation or made timing throws that looked hideously bad because of miscommunication with his recievers.

    I think MM can do wonders ad unless the Jets make a bold move I don't see any other viable alternative out there for this season.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    +1

    As always, very good points and very rational.

    We haven't had a chance to see the real Mark Sanchez.

    The first two years he was a 22-year-old who didn't have a chance to learn on the job; he was thrown straight into the fire and performed very well, considering.

    The next two years he was stripped of every offense of playmaker, lost his best wide receivers, had a tight end who couldn't stay healthy, lost his dump-off back, and had an offensive line that betrayed him. Not to mention, two offensive coordinator's last two seasons, and the Tim Tebow distraction.

    There's a good chance that Mark Sanchez is done. There is also a good chance that Mark Sanchez needs some help and will return to solid NFL quarterback status and then grow from there. Let's find out.

    SAR I
    What fire? Playing under the 'lights' of NYC, can fluster any player I'll give you that, but from a football standpoint, Sanchez rookie situation, was ideal. With the amount of support he had on this team, he gained valuable in game experience where his responsibilities were minimal in comparison to many starting rookie QB's.

    1.The Jets had an absolutely dominant O line that really minimized the pressure he received.

    2. They had one of the most effective running games in the NFL, which alleviated the responsibility of having to throw the ball too much. The running game gave him the opportunity to utilize play action. Not to forget, running the ball effectively forces the defense to make adjustments in coverage that should benefit your passing game.

    3 Their defense was elite. That pretty much guaranteed that the Jets would more times than not, be in the game. Rarely, did Sanchez have to throw the ball an obscene number of times and abandon the running game in order to keep up with an opposing offense.

    4. Their special teams (as well as their defense) gave them good field position; as well as putting points on the board (which the defense, also occasionally did). I don't need to state the obvious positives of this.

    Yet, even with all of this, his numbers were mediocre at best.

    The funny part is, what Westhoff said wasn't even a real compliment. You know why, just about any QB in the league can get by with an overwhelming supporting cast. Due to the nature of the NFL (free agency, retirement, injury, limited resources of talent etc) it's extremely difficult to build and maintain those types of teams. He also didn't think that he even regressed as much as you said he did. Some of his stats even reflect this.
    Last edited by Tonetime86; 01-31-2013 at 11:09 AM.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post


    That's why.

    NFL history is not littered with fantastic playoff quarterbacks who sucked during the regular season. There's a reason why. It's been posted hundreds of times here. He simply doesn't have the right supporting cast anymore. So he could not grow. So he regressed.

    SAR I
    Wow. Again with the playoffs argument. He played well against NE and padded his stats against Pittsburgh when they thought the game was over and all of a sudden that is supposed to point to how good he is. He was pretty average to mediocre in the other games, and then even in the games he played well in he was far from lighting it up. It ignores the totality of his play in the roughly 62 or so other games he has played in where he has proven to be amongst the worst QBs in the NFL.

    Crap, Brooks Bollinger had some games better than Sanchez has, why arent we bringing him back.

    It is a stupid argument. Unfortunately it is the only one that the remaining Sanchez advocates have. Nothing can make Sanchez into a good QB, he simply does not have the vision or ability.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    There's just no way you can prove that . Its like me saying you put Brady in the Jets offense and he'd be a 50% passer and go fetal so many times he'd climb back into the womb.

    No one knows what Sanchez could do in that type of offense, we haven't seen a offense that allows him to be anything but ordinary at best.
    Have you actually ever watched Sanchez throw the types of short passes that the Patriots use? He is TERRIBLE at them. It always amazes me that a NFL QB can actually be inept at throwing short passes but Sanchez is. He has no feel whatsoever for short passes. He is as inaccurate as anyone I have ever seen on what you would think would be bread and butter throws.

    No, Sanchez would be even worse in Patriots offense because it is built around the skill set that Sanchez is worst at: the firggin short pass.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    +1

    As always, very good points and very rational.

    We haven't had a chance to see the real Mark Sanchez.

    The first two years he was a 22-year-old who didn't have a chance to learn on the job; he was thrown straight into the fire and performed very well, considering.

    The next two years he was stripped of every offense of playmaker, lost his best wide receivers, had a tight end who couldn't stay healthy, lost his dump-off back, and had an offensive line that betrayed him. Not to mention, two offensive coordinator's last two seasons, and the Tim Tebow distraction.

    There's a good chance that Mark Sanchez is done. There is also a good chance that Mark Sanchez needs some help and will return to solid NFL quarterback status and then grow from there. Let's find out.

    SAR I
    He has never been at any point in his career a solid NFL QB. Ever.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    And how explosive would Kaepernick be replacing Frank Gore with Shonn Greene , Vernon Davis with Dustin Keller, I won't even bother listing out the Wr''s but most importantly in the Rex driven G&P. They're explosive because their coaching staff is adaptable and and takes advantage of their players stengths, not just forcing a scheme regardless of if they're players are suited to it.
    Just replacing those two would do wonders for the Jets offense. We could still GnP with Gore but instead of 3rd and 6 after 2 runs , its 3rd and 2. Vernon Davis is a like the Lebron James of football....a physical freak. Just get him the ball in space, or scheme him to be covered by a LB and and its all gravy!!!

    Look everyone, MS is going to be here and since we really don't have a sure fire free agent (Alex Smith will look like Alex Smith if we don't have the weapons), and guys like Brady and Rogers don't come around all that often, lets give this guy one LAST look to see if he can still be a good QB.

  16. #336
    Matt Flynn and Alex Smith are by no means any type of guarantee at all. Not at all. Let's be clear here, after all these years Alex Smith has finally been playing some nice ball lately. Nice, not great. He's not elite, he never will be elite. We sign him to this team he's our QB for the next 3-5 years. Is that really what we want? Are we going to settle for this mediocrity at the QB position for what likely will be a handsome salary? And Flynn, first of all his arm is very suspect. I am very skeptical of him being able to throw in the Meadowlands. But besides that he's played what, 2 games? Again, we're gonna throw our eggs in that basket?

    Sanchez may suck just as hard as most people here say he does. There's really not an argument against it. But we are not just a mediocre gama managing QB away from being great again. There are tons of holes on the team. So we go one of two ways-stick with Mark and hope the light goes on for him. This hands down would be the best possible thing to happen for the Jets. If he turns it around then we have him for his remainder of his contract at a very fair price (ironically making Tanny's move look good in hindsight). If he fails then we will be near or at the top of the line in a draft that will be chock full of top QB prospects. Either way we win in the long run. Look I don't think Sanchez is very good, but I'm not thrilled with the idea of going with Alex Smith or Matt Flynn for the next 3-5 years either.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysd View Post
    Have you actually ever watched Sanchez throw the types of short passes that the Patriots use? He is TERRIBLE at them. It always amazes me that a NFL QB can actually be inept at throwing short passes but Sanchez is. He has no feel whatsoever for short passes. He is as inaccurate as anyone I have ever seen on what you would think would be bread and butter throws.

    No, Sanchez would be even worse in Patriots offense because it is built around the skill set that Sanchez is worst at: the firggin short pass.
    Compare the offensive talents and the way the Patriots set up their short passing game, then watch how the Jets do it, no comparison whatsoever.

    The Pats create space with their exceptional Te's, they overload zones, they have the Oline and wr's run questionably legal pick plays. The Jets drop their wr 2 yards behind the LOS and then try to beat the 9-10 men who are stacked in the box. Otherwise they'll send the primary reciever 5 yards downfield on 3rd and 10's . The box is always stacked against the Jets because 1) they feature the run 2) they hardly ever attack the perimeter or deep downfield. You'll say that's because Sanchez can't throw deep. I'll contend its all part of the offensive mindset.

  18. #338
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    why in the heck are pats fans on this site? boredom?

    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    You could insert Sanchez into the Pats, Saints or Packers offense and he'd still barely complete 50% of his passes and still have more turnovers than TD passes.

    Sorry SAR, Sanchez does not possess the skills to be a good NFL QB.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysd View Post
    He has never been at any point in his career a solid NFL QB. Ever.
    So last week you said "If we had a good quarterback, this year's Jets team would have gone 10-6".

    Therefore, for the Jets to have gone 9-7 and 11-5 in successive years in '09 and '10 they must have had a good quarterback.

    SAR I

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Snell41 View Post
    Matt Flynn and Alex Smith are by no means any type of guarantee at all. Not at all. Let's be clear here, after all these years Alex Smith has finally been playing some nice ball lately. Nice, not great.
    Getting Alex Smith would be the most hypocritical move in JI history.

    Alex Smith looked "great" because of the fantastic 49ers team and awesome 49ers head coach around him. Isn't that the argument that the anti-Sanchez brigade uses against Mark?

    SAR I

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