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Thread: Unions Suffer Steep Decline in Membership

  1. #41
    JetsInsider.com Legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    It isn't a matter of disagreeing.
    Of course not, you're just always right.

    There's no way my life experience can lead me to a different conclusion than yours.


    Gotcha.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    I have no love for WalMart's corporate tactics, which are pretty mercenary (one being to lay off employees as they approach five year vesting in their pensions). On the other hand, I do have some mistrust of Unions, as they tend to drift into greed and corruption with few checks and balances. Perhaps the old class action lawsuit is the best course. That means the laws need to support humane practices in the workplace. Unions were virtually the only option at the beginning of the 20th century. The canvas has changed mightily since then.
    Yup.

    Always amuses me when people who call themselves "Progressives" and mock those "outdated ideas of the right" fail to acknowledge this. Especially when it was their predecessors who can take much of the credit for that canvas.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    Of course not, you're just always right.

    There's no way my life experience can lead me to a different conclusion than yours.


    Gotcha.
    Who said anything about always?

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    The problem with public sector unions is with the pension system and labor relations laws. When the State mandates a defined pension benefit without providing municipalities with any clarity whatsoever as to the cost of the plan the end result is a mess. Unions are often great for the workers in the system until they lose their jobs. They are best for public sector workers because the jobs can never be lost so the tax payers get soaked. In the private sector they also work to create an adversarial relationship between employer and employee which culturally is not an ideal corporate environment. LIL's anecdote was the perfect example.
    Public Sector Unions are a huge drain on our government and if it wasn't for them federal and state gov'ts would be able to run more efficiently. That said, private sector unions are absolutely still necessary I love these arguments from conservatives "There's lawsuits and OSHA now so we don't need unions". Rubbish. Conservatives are doing everything they can with tort reform to end civil lawsuits and the next Republican president that gets elected will try to get rid of OSHA or at least make it a joke like George W. Bush did naming Christie Whitman the EPA head.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Barely 11% of Americans are now in a Union.

    If Unions are as good as members claim, and as vital to workers rights as many claim, why then do you think that only one in 10 American workers now work within a Union, and of that many still in Unions that require memebrship to work in a particular field?

    I.e. Why is Union membership 11%, and not 90%? The exception, not the rule?
    Unions already accomplished what they sought out to do. 9-5 days, no children in factories, vacations etc... No need for them anymore. They cause more trouble than they are worth anymore. Borderline thuggery today.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    Bingo!

    Remember we were fed that the unions are one of the causes of our current economic mess. That is what the governors who severely limited collective bargaining told us. The reality is that the country has traded one powerful special interest group (unions) for another (corporate lobbyists). So an alleged democracy that was once manipulated and controlled by the money of unions is now manipulated and controlled by corporate America.

    As to your question as to why so much credence is given to the GOP argument that unions are ruining America, its simple; since corporate America also owns the media, the sheeple follow the shepherds and say in unison; "bahhh, the unions are destroying the economy today, bahhhh", while at the same ExxonMobile just bought another politician. That is why many of the same posters here who rail against the influence of the unions (a special interest that once owned much of the government) can't comprehend the idea that corporate interests are now doing the EXACT same thing.

    Don't take this the wrong way but me thinks your full of it. Every single day there is exposure to the corporate lobbying going on in this country and it's reported on the front pages of almost all the media outlets.

    You either aren't watching or reading or you are intentionally lying? Not sure which?

    Most people do comprehend that corporate interests are out of control as our public sector Unions. Most people are not sheeple. Many very rich owners of media are extremely liberal including Bloomberg who just gave away 1.1 Billion to John Hopkins University, the same anti education person the UFT rails against.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Don't take this the wrong way but me thinks your full of it. Every single day there is exposure to the corporate lobbying going on in this country and it's reported on the front pages of almost all the media outlets.

    You either aren't watching or reading or you are intentionally lying? Not sure which?

    Most people do comprehend that corporate interests are out of control as our public sector Unions. Most people are not sheeple. Many very rich owners of media are extremely liberal including Bloomberg who just gave away 1.1 Billion to John Hopkins University, the same anti education person the UFT rails against.
    no offense taken; you are entitled to your opinion. I respectfully disagree that there are a lot of stories from corporate media lamenting the affects of corporate controlled media on our democracy. It is simply not in their best interest to open up that can of worms. Of course a far-left station like MSNBC profits from those stories by appealing to its target audience. So it comes down to where you are getting the "news". If you watch a lot of MSNBC (I do not) then there is a heavy anti-corporate theme. But considering that their ratings are in the toilet I would argue that there are not a lot of Americans paying attention to them (relative to the population). If a tree falls in the forest.......

    What I am also aware of is that the most watched cable "news" network by a mile is Fox, and they are very pro-business. Expecting to see/hear/read stories about the negative influence of corporate America on our democracy from News Corp is akin to the Wild E. Coyote warning the road runner that he is going to eat him.....


  8. #48
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    1. Sig Image have size limits my friend. Might want to fix it before Sooth does, he's been on a kick about that of late.

    2. You are aware, I hope, that you can't possably believe what that picks says. If you truly did not value any other life less than your own, then you'd be living a life of poverty and abject service today, as you'd have to (to live up to that fippie dippy line) give away everythign you ahev to those who have less than you, until you yourself had nothing.

    Life has enevr been equal, and people are not equal. All we can ever strive for is equallity under the Law, not absolute equallity enforced by...who, the state? The very idea is horrific.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    no offense taken; you are entitled to your opinion. I respectfully disagree that there are a lot of stories from corporate media lamenting the affects of corporate controlled media on our democracy. It is simply not in their best interest to open up that can of worms. Of course a far-left station like MSNBC profits from those stories by appealing to its target audience. So it comes down to where you are getting the "news". If you watch a lot of MSNBC (I do not) then there is a heavy anti-corporate theme. But considering that their ratings are in the toilet I would argue that there are not a lot of Americans paying attention to them (relative to the population). If a tree falls in the forest.......

    What I am also aware of is that the most watched cable "news" network by a mile is Fox, and they are very pro-business. Expecting to see/hear/read stories about the negative influence of corporate America on our democracy from News Corp is akin to the Wild E. Coyote warning the road runner that he is going to eat him.....

    Your focus on a couple of TV stations is simply not credible. I used to get 2 papers daily I now can ready 15 to 20 on line daily if I wish. My local AZ paper is run by a liberal editoral board as is most of the daily's delivered across the country including the NY Times who had 2 front page stories yesterday on corporate lobbying. These sheeple you speak of mostly your imagination.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    1. Sig Image have size limits my friend. Might want to fix it before Sooth does, he's been on a kick about that of late.

    2. You are aware, I hope, that you can't possably believe what that picks says. If you truly did not value any other life less than your own, then you'd be living a life of poverty and abject service today, as you'd have to (to live up to that fippie dippy line) give away everythign you ahev to those who have less than you, until you yourself had nothing.

    Life has enevr been equal, and people are not equal. All we can ever strive for is equallity under the Law, not absolute equallity enforced by...who, the state? The very idea is horrific.
    The lack of respect for life is the psychological factor that allows men in power to justify (in their minds) committing genocide or starting wars for profit (ex: they are all savages anyway). It allows them to dehumanize the victims much like using statistics to justify acceptable amounts of casualties.

    There are many reasons why I do not live in poverty yet others do and one of the main factors is luck. I was blessed to be born into a great country and to a loving family. Now, what I also acknowledge is that I went from that starting point and put myself through college and helped to create the life I enjoy today. But the bottom line is that a big assist in my version of success started with blind fortune. To give away everything, quit my profession and walk around naked will not bring equality to the world (but it my scare a few people).

    Finally, my definition of equality may be different then yours. Equality and respect for life go hand in hand, in my opinion. Equality does not mean that everyone has the same amount of materialistic possessions. There are cultures still left in this world that simply do not place a high value on materialism. Respect for all life is person to person, from me to you. Its saying that I respect that person's right to live regardless of the fact that he/she lives there or dresses like that or worships this or looks like that.

    My friend, in the part of the world that I control (my actions and how I treat people) equality already exists based on the definition of what I believe equality means.

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