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Thread: Can Davis, Ellis, Bush, Allen start?

  1. #1

    Can Davis, Ellis, Bush, Allen start?

    This is a big issue for me that I wish I had a better handle on when looking at who the Jets might go after in the draft. Scott probably will be cut, at the least he is past it. Can Demario Davis step in as a starter next year?

    Pouha is not the player he was it seems, can Kendrick Ellis start?

    I would be surprised if both of our vet safeties are back next year. Can Josh bush or Antonio Allen start?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    This is a big issue for me that I wish I had a better handle on when looking at who the Jets might go after in the draft. Scott probably will be cut, at the least he is past it. Can Demario Davis step in as a starter next year?

    Pouha is not the player he was it seems, can Kendrick Ellis start?

    I would be surprised if both of our vet safeties are back next year. Can Josh bush or Antonio Allen start?
    Jason at NY Jets cap actually was pretty negative on demario saying he was often times not in position, but its tough to evaluate that. I believe in our defense one ILB takes on blocks and one flows to the ball....hopefully harris can take scotts place and let demario use his speed to flow to the ball. I think he is a starter no matter what on opening day.

    Ellis seemed to be borderline dominant with speed and strength when he played but was banged up (which is not a surprise at his size). Again tough to evaluate but coming into his 3rd year he needs to be play 60% of the snaps and hopefully pouha comes back at a discount to play 40%.

    Again Jason (who i like) wasnt high on allen, but i thought he was ok as a blitzer in the limited capacity that he played. He was excellent covering TEs in college so I think he is more of a SS then a FS. Bush I think the jury is really out on.

  3. #3
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    I think Ellis and Davis bothe flashed enough that they can be effective players. I think both will be starters next year. I think the opposite of the 2 young safeties, only because they didn't see much PT. They may be thrust into action, but I would feel less comfortable if they were than I would with Davis and Ellis.

  4. #4
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    I think Davis and Ellis have the talent to start and will do so next year. Allen will take over as the hybrid LB/S for Eric Smith. Bush propably takes some more time. Who I think could become a starter due to the lack of alternatives and not much money/picks available is Garrett McIntyre.

  5. #5
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    to say that any of them are starters might be a stretch at this point. Davis is probably the most likely to start next season though.

    With that said I think they will all have a significant role on the team.

    Ellis is coming around but Pouha isnt done yet and we need depth at the position.

    Pouha and Ellis were both banged up and played with injuries the entire year so Im not sure we can evaluate them totally on last season. I think we need both of them.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Mo View Post
    I think Davis and Ellis have the talent to start and will do so next year. Allen will take over as the hybrid LB/S for Eric Smith. Bush propably takes some more time. Who I think could become a starter due to the lack of alternatives and not much money/picks available is Garrett McIntyre.
    You know I was actually pretty happy with him toward the end of the season. He show some things as a starter after Thomas went down.

    I wouldnt have any problem with him as a starter if we can find a real pass rusher on the other side in the draft.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Jason at NY Jets cap actually was pretty negative on demario saying he was often times not in position, but its tough to evaluate that. I believe in our defense one ILB takes on blocks and one flows to the ball....hopefully harris can take scotts place and let demario use his speed to flow to the ball. I think he is a starter no matter what on opening day.

    Ellis seemed to be borderline dominant with speed and strength when he played but was banged up (which is not a surprise at his size). Again tough to evaluate but coming into his 3rd year he needs to be play 60% of the snaps and hopefully pouha comes back at a discount to play 40%.

    Again Jason (who i like) wasnt high on allen, but i thought he was ok as a blitzer in the limited capacity that he played. He was excellent covering TEs in college so I think he is more of a SS then a FS. Bush I think the jury is really out on.
    First of all, why would you draft a guy if you didn't think he could start? Second, worrying whether or not Jason the "cap guy". com likes or doesn't like a player is crazy.

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    Legitimate question but with what may happen with our cap and cuts
    these young players are going to have to be starters. We need to fill
    in our defensive spots internally and draft a ton of offensive help

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by KRL View Post
    Legitimate question but with what may happen with our cap and cuts
    these young players are going to have to be starters. We need to fill
    in our defensive spots internally and draft a ton of offensive help
    Well some young guys will have to start. If Rex and Idzik look at the two young safeties and say, blech then we have to draft one. That is my point. We know we will have to start some young talent. I'm just hoping at least two of them can come from these guys. This has been a horrible weakness that the Tanny let happen. Very poor development of mid to late rounders so that they can step in.

    I guess we will know more when we see who is getting cut.

  10. #10
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    We have to start playing the guys we draft. For example, we drafted 2 safeties last year. They need to play this year. No more safties until these guys play and either prove they have it or they dont. We cant bring in 2 safeties(landy/bell) and draft 2 and now address that position again this offseason.

    Ellis needs to start and so does davis. i do not care if they are good or bad. They need to play. We need to make a commitment to play our draft picks.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by section314 View Post
    First of all, why would you draft a guy if you didn't think he could start? Second, worrying whether or not Jason the "cap guy". com likes or doesn't like a player is crazy.
    Great post, thanks for the contribution to the thread!

    I mentioned jasons evaluation as he has a site dedicated to the jets and spent time evaluating each position for 2013...something I didnt do.

    Second of all, players "start" at different points in their career, some arent ready until their 4th year and some start day 1. And yes, some players are drafted to contribute on ST and be role players.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jets31 View Post
    You know I was actually pretty happy with him toward the end of the season. He show some things as a starter after Thomas went down.

    I wouldnt have any problem with him as a starter if we can find a real pass rusher on the other side in the draft.
    McIntyre is ok, definitely a strong effort guy, but the player id like to see step up is ricky sapp. He has had a long time to get stronger, recover from the injuries and learn the position.

    My hope is that he didnt play down the stretch in order to keep him off other teams radar since we were out of it and there was no reason to play him if he could garner interest from another.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    McIntyre is ok, definitely a strong effort guy, but the player id like to see step up is ricky sapp. He has had a long time to get stronger, recover from the injuries and learn the position.

    My hope is that he didnt play down the stretch in order to keep him off other teams radar since we were out of it and there was no reason to play him if he could garner interest from another.
    Ugh, forget the jags at one of the most important positions on a defense. (that being OLB pass rusher.) We simply have to draft an olb pass rusher and this is the year to do it. I have no hope for Sapp at all, if he was any good he would have taken a roll when we had injuries at olb. MacIntyre is a guy you start if you have no one else.

  14. #14
    They need experience. As I keep saying, 2013 is a loss. Stepping in is largely inconsequential since they will gain experience and hopefully get better.

    It's that simple.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    McIntyre is ok, definitely a strong effort guy, but the player id like to see step up is ricky sapp. He has had a long time to get stronger, recover from the injuries and learn the position.

    My hope is that he didnt play down the stretch in order to keep him off other teams radar since we were out of it and there was no reason to play him if he could garner interest from another.
    Sapp has done nothing and I don't think we can expect much from him. McIntyre on the other hand has made spots starts and was also inserted into the starting lineup solely for run stopping at times (I remember the game against Denver when Tebow was there). He also showed something pass rushing, getting a few sacks here and there and providing pressure. He is by no means a star or upper echelon player but as you said, pretty solid strong effort guy who is solid both against the run and the pass. Another player we do not have to take out in either situation which is always a plus. You have to fill some spots with role players and I think the fact that we propably do not have one OLB starter penciled in yet for next year could very well lead to McIntyre starting all year. And as mentioned earlier, I'm perfectly fine with it as he is neither a liability against either the pass or the run and has shown some upside in either regard.

    Same thing goes for Davis and Ellis. We have actually seen them in action and they have shown that they can play on the NFL level and actually make impact plays. Davis made his first start in NE if I remember correctly, as tough a situation as there is actually, and he played very solid against a super offense. Ellis when healthy has always shown flashes.

    Allen and Bush really weren't used in any other capacity than situational downs with special jobs. That's why I think they will definitely continue to be in the rotation as part time players and backups but I dont see them contributing in our base defense. Allen will take over for Eric Smith, thank god, and fill the position he played in college as the LB/S hybrid in passing situations. In today's league this is a very important role and for a rookie drafted as late as him, this is a very good job by the FO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Ugh, forget the jags at one of the most important positions on a defense. (that being OLB pass rusher.) We simply have to draft an olb pass rusher and this is the year to do it. I have no hope for Sapp at all, if he was any good he would have taken a roll when we had injuries at olb. MacIntyre is a guy you start if you have no one else.
    I agree that you need a stud on the other side (first round pick this year most likely) and then McIntyre is perfectly fine if you do not have much money and would bring in similar players in FA anyways. McIntyre has started 7 games in 2 years and has made plays when he got the chance.

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    I agree with the guys who say these kids have to start or at least get solid PT.

    It would probably mean the D goes from top 10 to bottom 10 though.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    I agree with the guys who say these kids have to start or at least get solid PT.

    It would probably mean the D goes from top 10 to bottom 10 though.
    And this is my big worry with Rex. Defense is his baby and I see him being dragged kicking and screaming into something like that. Maybe it is just a perception on my part.

  19. #19
    I didn't think much of Davis to be honest. He was better then Scott but I really dont think that is saying a whole lot. Either way it is an upgrade I guess. Ellis I think will be what Pouha is. He struggled with his weight but I think is dedicated to the game. He is right where he needs to be IMO. I feel fine with letting him start. Pouha wasn't great his 1st few years either. If we can trade Pouha and get that 3.8 mil back count me in. We can fill a few more dire needs with that. As for Allen and Bush I like both. They aren't Landry but wouldn't be the worst in the league either.

    Lankster to me is the biggest question mark. He makes enough where you have to consider cutting him to save a few 100k but may also be of value in trade. I could very well see him being the kicker in a trade that gets us a potential starter. Or if you move Cro do you give this kid a real shot? We had some good CB depth last year and I think it says a lot that he was the one guy that survived the shuffle.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    And this is my big worry with Rex. Defense is his baby and I see him being dragged kicking and screaming into something like that. Maybe it is just a perception on my part.
    Rex is so reluctant to play rookies and young guys. Look how little Coples played in the first half of the season, look how little Davis played the last 4 games of the season. Davis should have at least been splitting time if not getting more reps than Bart near the end of the season. There were some games Davis only got a handful of reps. The season was over, he needed to use those games to evaluate as many of the young guys as possible.

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