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Thread: So, Mark Sanchez and a slew of Burn outs have cost us Revis?(merged REVIS x 100)

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Unless there is a Revis for Rodgers deal in the works, I don't see any reason to trade him.

    They aren't fixing the offense without getting a QB, and the only way they will get a QB is to draft one. They have an opportunity to draft a QB this year, and that has no affect on the re-signing of Revis.

    The offense will be fixed the moment they draft a good QB. Signing Revis does not prevent them from drafting a QB and trading him does not ensure they get the QB who will fix this team.

    My point is, there is no guarantee that trading him fixes anything. At the same time, keeping him does not prevent them from finding a QB.

    I really don't know why this is so hard to understand.
    Right. If we had Rodgers and Revis and there was a choice of who to sign I think 100% of us would say SIGN THE DAMN QB! That's not the case though. You have to build around what you have and try to find a QB in the draft. They don't hit free agency like Peyton Manning. It just never happens.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton View Post
    Right. If we had Rodgers and Revis and there was a choice of who to sign I think 100% of us would say SIGN THE DAMN QB! That's not the case though. You have to build around what you have and try to find a QB in the draft. They don't hit free agency like Peyton Manning. It just never happens.
    Manning had like a 27 million bonus or something if he was still on the roster didn't he??

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bocajetfan68 View Post
    All three could and thats the big question could be great. Truth be told has any team ever hit on 3 draft picks in one year like that when at least 2 were not early round one guy's ?
    Could be. Exactly.

    Yet people want to trade a Superstar for a bunch of picks that could turn out to be something. Or they could draft Blaine Gabbert, Donnie Avery and Toby Gearhart.

    I'm not willing to trade a known commodity for unknown draft picks.

    Use the picks they already have and hope to get it right.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Unless there is a Revis for Rodgers deal in the works, I don't see any reason to trade him.

    They aren't fixing the offense without getting a QB, and the only way they will get a QB is to draft one. They have an opportunity to draft a QB this year, and that has no affect on the re-signing of Revis.

    The offense will be fixed the moment they draft a good QB. Signing Revis does not prevent them from drafting a QB and trading him does not ensure they get the QB who will fix this team.

    My point is, there is no guarantee that trading him fixes anything. At the same time, keeping him does not prevent them from finding a QB.

    I really don't know why this is so hard to understand.
    I'll go ahead and break it down for you:

    - We have no QB
    - We have no RB
    - We have no TE
    - We have a giant question mark at WR
    - 2/5 of our OL is set to hit the market
    - 3/4 of our LB corps needs to be replaced
    - Both of our safeties are headed out the door

    This team is going through a fullblown rebuilding phase.

    Yet we should give a CB a contract on par with the most elite franchise QB's in the game today?

    You'll have to forgive me if I consider that the silliest goddamn thing I've ever heard.

  5. #85
    What no one seems to realize here is the ONLY one with ANY leverage on what to do with Revis , is Revis himself! It doesn't matter one iota what the Jets want to do. Once they threw away their right to franchise him, they put the decision entirely in his court.

    Scenario: Cleveland offers their next 5 first round picks plus any 3 players of your choosing. Revis decides it will be a cold day in hell when he plays in Cleveland. What are the chances of Cleveland signing him to a long term deal ( a sure necessity to facilitate ANY trade) to make it happen? Nada, ZIP, Nuthin'. So no trade.

    If Revis is hell bent on getting to Free Agency then Revis is 100% certain to be a UFA in 2014.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    So they can't draft those players if they re-sign Revis? Yeah, that makes sense.

    1-Patterson
    2-Jamison
    3-EJ Manuel

    There you go. Offense with first 3 picks, without trading Revis.

    And if those guys have impacts similar to Julio Jones, Ray Rice and Russell Wilson, the Jets are contenders next year.
    they can draft whomever they want but if they keep paying revis 20% of the cap it will ultimately restrict their ability to maintain a top offense. the best teams manage the cap by allocating money by position, not only by the talent level.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I'll go ahead and break it down for you:

    - We have no QB
    - We have no RB
    - We have no TE
    - We have a giant question mark at WR
    - 2/5 of our OL is set to hit the market
    - 3/4 of our LB corps needs to be replaced
    - Both of our safeties are headed out the door

    This team is going through a fullblown rebuilding phase.

    Yet we should give a CB a contract on par with the most elite franchise QB's in the game today?

    You'll have to forgive me if I consider that the silliest goddamn thing I've ever heard.
    I think the problem is your definition (or everyone's definition) of "rebuilding". The old version of that term doesn't exist anymore. There's no such thing as a full on rebuilding mode. You can turn a franchise around in 1 year. You pick two positions to fix and start swinging.

    If we actually had competent play at QB last year - Greene & Powell would have been MORE than enough to get by. In fact, that goes for a lot our woes.

    3 and outs makes everyone look bad by the 3rd quarter.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I'll go ahead and break it down for you:

    - We have no QB
    - We have no RB
    - We have no TE
    - We have a giant question mark at WR
    - 2/5 of our OL is set to hit the market
    - 3/4 of our LB corps needs to be replaced
    - Both of our safeties are headed out the door

    This team is going through a fullblown rebuilding phase.

    Yet we should give a CB a contract on par with the most elite franchise QB's in the game today?

    You'll have to forgive me if I consider that the silliest goddamn thing I've ever heard.
    So trading Revis for 2 draft picks, which may or may not work out, solves all of these problems? Good to know.

    And I'm the one being silly?

    Everything will fall into place if they draft the right QB.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    So trading Revis for 2 draft picks, which may or may not work out, solves all of these problems? Good to know.

    And I'm the one being silly?

    Everything will fall into place if they draft the right QB.
    $16M/year can sign 4 solid players in addition to those 2 picks...

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski View Post
    What no one seems to realize here is the ONLY one with ANY leverage on what to do with Revis , is Revis himself! It doesn't matter one iota what the Jets want to do. Once they threw away their right to franchise him, they put the decision entirely in his court.

    Scenario: Cleveland offers their next 5 first round picks plus any 3 players of your choosing. Revis decides it will be a cold day in hell when he plays in Cleveland. What are the chances of Cleveland signing him to a long term deal ( a sure necessity to facilitate ANY trade) to make it happen? Nada, ZIP, Nuthin'. So no trade.

    If Revis is hell bent on getting to Free Agency then Revis is 100% certain to be a UFA in 2014.
    That pretty much nailed it.. Unless Revis likes what he hears it's his way or the highway..

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    Our D isn't the problem

    It's that piss poor excuse for an offense that we trot out on the field every week.

    And I've yet to hear anyone provide a solution to fixing it if we have almost a quarter of our cap tied into our starting CB's alone.

    I guess we better start knocking the ball out of the f*cking park on those late round draft picks that have about a 5% chance of being anything more than a special teamer.
    I agree 100% that the D is not a problem, it's the O.

    And yet we have less cap tied up overall in the D than we do on the O.

    The solution (as I see it) is - in 2014 we no longer have Holmes or Sanchez's salary to worry about. That's about $25m, but we have no QB and a hole at WR. So we need to draft like hell over the next two years to find a WR (could take a damned good one at #9 this year) and a QB (either a later pick this year, or a pick in 2014 - or both, if possible, draft picks aren't that costly now).

    Sure, it means 2013 we probably aren't competitive, but I think we all knew that anyway. This is about the medium term, and getting Sanchez's and Holmes' salaries off the books will give us plenty space to fix the O. Without having to sacrifice the D to get there.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Monsterxman View Post
    $16M/year can sign 4 solid players in addition to those 2 picks...
    i'd rather use that money for a good right tackle and some offensive weapons.

    people seem to think that just b/c the jets' defense was better than the offense when they went to the championship games, that that's the only way they can get back there.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    they can draft whomever they want but if they keep paying revis 20% of the cap it will ultimately restrict their ability to maintain a top offense. the best teams manage the cap by allocating money by position, not only by the talent level.
    Salary cap for 2013 is $121M. Nobody is asking them to pay him $24M/year.

    Don't bend the truth to fit your argument.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    I think the problem is your definition (or everyone's definition) of "rebuilding". The old version of that term doesn't exist anymore. There's no such thing as a full on rebuilding mode. You can turn a franchise around in 1 year. You pick two positions to fix and start swinging.

    If we actually had competent play at QB last year - Greene & Powell would have been MORE than enough to get by. In fact, that goes for a lot our woes.

    3 and outs makes everyone look bad by the 3rd quarter.
    I don't see a quick fix for this team. We would have to have a draft to end all drafts. The kind of draft that would cement Idzik as a certified genius from the get-go.

    A team like Indy turned it around so fast because they had the greatest QB prospect of the past 30 years fall into their lap.

    Seattle already had a strong foundation in place when they drafted Wilson.

    Same for Washington and RG3. They also hit it out of the park with Morris in the late rounds.

    There is no foundation in place with this team. In fact, the pillars are rotting away and the whole damn thing is just about ready to cave in. Who do we build around on this offense? Brick and Mangold?

    This team needs 2-3 great drafts in a row and to make smart moves and spend wisely in FA. That's how we get back to contending. Not by paying a corner franchise QB money.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Salary cap for 2013 is $121M. Nobody is asking them to pay him $24M/year.

    Don't bend the truth to fit your argument.
    so it's 15% or something. you know what i'm saying. paying that much for a cb isn't smart cap management.

    revis is a great cb but most plays he's not even involved. teams have figured out how to navigate around him anyway. and believe me, in a year or two the younger wrs will be blazing by him anyway. he's not getting any faster, and his knee is being rebuilt. the revis we saw the past few years will not be the revis we see 2 yrs from now. he's just not worth the money.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monsterxman View Post
    $16M/year can sign 4 solid players in addition to those 2 picks...
    They have to pay the draft picks, so now we're talking something like $12M remaining.

    You can probably find some role players for $3M/year. But they are not going to be difference makers, not going to be the pass rusher everyone wants and not the #1 RB everyone wants. We're talking about ackup TEs and a SS, a 4th WR, etc.

    And they will have the ability to sign those guys if they cut the dead weight (Sanchez, Holmes, Pace, Scott) already on the roster.

    I know this is a numbers game, but it can work with a CB making $13-16M a year.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I don't see a quick fix for this team. We would have to have a draft to end all drafts. The kind of draft that would cement Idzik as a certified genius from the get-go.

    A team like Indy turned it around so fast because they had the greatest QB prospect of the past 30 years fall into their lap.

    Seattle already had a strong foundation in place when they drafted Wilson.

    Same for Washington and RG3. They also hit it out of the park with Morris in the late rounds.

    There is no foundation in place with this team. In fact, the pillars are rotting away and the whole damn thing is just about ready to cave in. Who do we build around on this offense? Brick and Mangold?

    This team needs 2-3 great drafts in a row and to make smart moves and spend wisely in FA. That's how we get back to contending. Not by paying a corner franchise QB money.
    I guess you and I disagree on the level of sh!t the GM needs to wade through to get the team back on track.

    It might be the source of our debate.

    I think Holmes, Kerley, Hill is good enough for the WRs. It's not Green Bay's group, but these guys would look good in GB, too.

    We don't really know how good Powell is or could be because he didn't get much of a chance. He looked OK when he did touch the ball. McKnight was totally under utilized by the coaches here, and I think Marty will find a way to get something out of him.

    The OL has two very good pieces, at the most important positions. Howard looked fine at RT. They need to figure out what they want to do with Vlad. Need a guard. Maybe they bring back Slauson on the cheap. Moore could also be resigned.

    They need a TE, but it's a position that always comes cheap in FA to plug a hole... the Jets just never tried that before. And Cumberland has shown some improvement.

    The offense is virtually fixed overnight with a good QB.

    Washington's offense was far from a finished product without RG3 and Morris.
    Last edited by TheMikeIsHot; 01-26-2013 at 12:47 PM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    I guess you and I disagree on the level of sh!t the GM needs to wade through to get the team back on track.

    It might be the source of our debate.

    I think Holmes, Kerley, Hill is good enough for the WRs. It's not Green Bay's group, but these guys would look good in GB, too.

    We don't really know how good Powell is or could be because he didn't get much of a chance. He looked OK when he did touch the ball. McKnight was totally under utilized by the coaches here, and I think Marty will find a way to get something out of him.

    The OL has two very good pieces, at the most important positions. Howard looked fine at RT. They need to figure out what they want to do with Vlad.

    They need a TE, but it's a position that always comes cheap in FA to plug a hole... the Jets just never tried that before.

    The offense is virtually fixed overnight with a good QB.
    you are absolutely delusional if you think the offensive skill positions are good, and that all they need is a good qb. you should stop posting if that's what you think. basically every analyst and personnel expert has said that the jets need to upgrade their offensive skill positions. even current jets, from cromartie to scott, have said it too.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    I guess you and I disagree on the level of sh!t the GM needs to wade through to get the team back on track.

    It might be the source of our debate.

    I think Holmes, Kerley, Hill is good enough for the WRs. It's not Green Bay's group, but these guys would look good in GB, too.

    We don't really know how good Powell is or could be because he didn't get much of a chance. He looked OK when he did touch the ball. McKnight was totally under utilized by the coaches here, and I think Marty will find a way to get something out of him.

    The OL has two very good pieces, at the most important positions. Howard looked fine at RT. They need to figure out what they want to do with Vlad. Need a guard. Maybe they bring back Slauson on the cheap. Moore could also be resigned.

    They need a TE, but it's a position that always comes cheap in FA to plug a hole... the Jets just never tried that before.

    The offense is virtually fixed overnight with a good QB.
    I just can't buy into that.

    Saying that our offense is totally fixed by plugging in a competent QB is optimistic to say the least.

    Everyone knows I'm about as anti-Sanchez as it gets, but even I will admit that our offensive woes go beyond the QB position.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    Am I understanding this correctly? We're actually going to have to trade the best defensive player in the NFL - one of our best draft stories ever - because we've locked up too much money in Sh*tchez and a bunch of stupid name-contracts?

    No - because when the time comes due to pay Revis - 2014 not 2013 (he's already under contract for 2013) the bad contracts of Sanchez, Pace, Scott, Smith etc will be gone.

    We are going to have to trade Revis because the front office doesn't want to pay him $16,000,000.00/yr from 2014 - 2019.

    Frankly, I don't blame them. Unless your name is Brady, Manning or Brees you don't deserve 16 million a year.

    Just ask Buffalo whether or not Mario Williams is worth it.

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